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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Is ethanol bad for wildlife?

Author  [Modern View]
Dan T in MO

11-27-2013 16:08:24
166.181.3.55



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OK, I know I stand to pay way too much for hog feed, and fuel filters clog up a lot more. But does ethanol in the gas have other bad side effects?




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2 Old 2 Care

12-01-2013 08:20:00
74.142.63.198



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Thought I'd toss in a comment that is every bit as factual as most of what is contained in this thread.

1. The moon is made of green cheese.

2. The earth is flat and if you get too close to the edge, you'll fall off.

3. The government is here to help all of us.

4. Using ethanol is harmful to birds.

No need to verify these 4 items. All you have to do is to put them on the internet and then they MUST be true!

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j hikemper

11-30-2013 05:06:21
50.102.7.103



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
that article should have a disclaimer ,,,dreamed up and brought to you by the retarded overeducated l ibe r al wasted yuppiphux who have no commonsense ,,by readin their garbage it is their hope and their ultimate goal to dissolve and divide America and bring about social economic failure ,,.. it should also be noted ,, when ever a picture of the imposter massiah ,accompanies such articles ,,true red blooded Americans , can instantly know that this article is a waste of time that is supported by lies and mistruths taken out of context ,, they will know without a doubt that the leftist lazies are at it again ,,. simply by seeing the pix of the imposter prez

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Tom Schnitzler

11-30-2013 04:45:08
166.182.3.140



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Oh man, to the oil company ethanol is a bad thing, we are losing our quail, to alcohol! This is sore subject for me, I think we need to go to bio fuels, solar energy, that is my thought! Are we losing quail because of the ethanol industry, I don't think so, there is other factors I'm sure. Is there birds that get killed from a propeller on a wind mill, ya, I hit some with my truck to when they fly into it. The oil company seems to push this negative publicity on ethanol, but wait wasn't there a few ships had a small oil leak, that killed a couple birds, fish, and other sea living creatures? And what about the pipelines they forced on peoples property that sprung a leak? But that is the better way, right???? Seems to me big oil can drink there oil, I'll go for alcohol! Tom

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prawn farmer

11-28-2013 06:57:03
69.160.179.199



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
The Missouri Conservation Department has an excellent publication called "On the Edge - A guide to managing land for bobwhite quail". My results from this book were apparent withing the 2nd year.



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prawn farmer

11-28-2013 06:51:09
69.160.179.199



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Yes. Alcohol is the demise of quail. Many former Bobwhite quail have become heavy drinkers and a new species has evolved called Ronwhite quail.

Government studies show that quail decline is due to Obamacare, converting 8N"s to 12 volts, dirty toilet seats, windmills chopping up migrating birds, prostate exams,the new TSC paint and, to some extent, recreational mowing causing habitat loss.



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heavyhaulertoo

11-28-2013 06:39:28
173.215.4.36



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
It is the junk in the tank that the gas is Clea LNG out.



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fergienewbee

11-28-2013 03:05:13
99.119.130.129



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Waltdavis;

I think grouse and quail have more habitat requirements than pheasants. Quail need brushy thickets, like wild plum or dogwood, in addition to nesting cover. Food is rarely a factor since they eat all kinds of seeds. I think herbicides and insecticides contribute to the declining game bird populations. Chicks need protein and that means bugs.

Larry



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LBSMJS

11-27-2013 19:43:56
67.55.148.10



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
The money spent to get biofuels started is a small fraction of the money given to the oil co everyday.The livestock industry says that it wasn't given any help,but 1.60 corn isn't help?What other options that help clean the exhaust of cars is there that does as little harm to the environment as grain alcohol.Look at the money that the added income has brought to ag areas.So pull your head out and look at all the good it has done for your area.

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MarkB_MI

11-27-2013 19:02:41
75.198.53.150



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
It's a matter of resource allocation. Do we use what little water is left in the Ogallala Aquifer to produce a fairly insignificant amount of fuel? What's the best use of marginal farmland? Grain, pasture, forest or wildlife habitat? Sure, CRP vastly increased the amount of habitat for upland game, but at a considerable expense to the taxpayer. Should we really spend billions of dollars so city folk have a better chance of shooting a pheasant than they would back in the suburbs?

Oh for what it's worth, pheasants aren't even native to North America. And I've noticed they are thriving in the near-wilderness that is downtown Detroit.

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pete 23

11-27-2013 16:58:46
74.33.85.134



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
The one thing you cannot control with pheasants is the weather. We had two bad winters after several open ones. Follow that with cold wet weather right during peak hatching time. Birds are way down on same exact piece of crp land I have hunted when roundup ready beans and corn were along side of it during the up tick in birds to the down slide. Sure they need habitat, but that includes cover for nesting, food all year, and cover from storms, predators etc. They are not smart during bad weather.

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NEIADan

11-27-2013 16:56:48
166.181.83.28



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
And the life cycle goes on. Pheasant populations have been declining for 60 years here in Iowa. Why? Habitat, habitat habitat. TILE, Herbicides and a move towards confinement livestock production. At the same time look at the revitalized number of deer. The success of the re-introduced turkey and the BaLD Eagle that as a child I never dreamed I would ever see one much less wake up to see them in the trees right outside my home. I no longer have rabbits or squirrels in my yard because of the Eagles, Not Ethanol. Nature is a cycle and I hope we continue to accept that as man we are not totally in control of lifes cycles. Renewable energies are here to stay.

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Ultradog MN

11-27-2013 18:49:23
75.168.139.116



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to NEIADan, 11-27-2013 16:56:48  
If we are going to discuss disappearing bird populations we really ought to be talking about cats too. Not only the feral ones but your beloved barnyard kitties are destroying millions if not billions of birds of all types.
But no one wants to acknowledge that. Especially not the cat owners.



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rrlund

11-27-2013 16:54:56
207.241.137.116



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
What the H is with all the ethanol talk? Are Limbaugh and Hannity on another anti farmer rant or something? Good Lord!



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Bret4207

11-28-2013 04:22:44
64.19.90.196



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to rrlund, 11-27-2013 16:54:56  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I'll say it again, it's not anti-farmer. It's questioning the effect gov't meddling has in our lives and what the big picture is.



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rrlund

11-28-2013 06:51:54
207.241.137.116



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to dino in iowa, 11-27-2013 16:59:43  
Seems like some smart guy who wanted to make some money would come up with sustainable,organic,natural,non GMO ethanol to cater to the wack jobs.



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Traditional Farmer

11-28-2013 04:57:07
67.237.188.53



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Paul, 11-28-2013 02:33:00  
Ethanol is indirectly subsidized several ways such as the Crop Insurance program which is a big loser for the Taxpayers.Also the mandate is a subsidy because we're forced to use it in gasoline.



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Paul

11-28-2013 06:28:55
66.44.132.180



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Traditional Farmer, 11-28-2013 04:57:07  
The mandate actually holds back ethanol use insome ways, it does not allow more than 10%. As market prices ebb and flow, many times ethanol is cheaper than gas and they would blend more. A bit of a two way street.

I don't care for what the farm program has turned into, and I do not like the insurance programs, but that is a seperate issue, it is not a support for ethanol any more than the govt payment for highways is a govt support for Big Oil.

You all have a good thanksgiving.

Paul

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wgm

11-27-2013 18:22:29
66.11.102.200



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Traditional Farmer, 11-27-2013 18:08:55  
Doubt it.



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dino in iowa

11-27-2013 16:45:27
70.209.66.222



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Other though turkeys Kill pheasants



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tomturkey

11-27-2013 16:28:22
216.81.211.253



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Iowa's pheasant numbers have been dropping for the last ten maybe fifteen years. And that was while we has a tremendous amount of land in the crp program. The crp program did not bring the big numbers to pheasant or quail that they anticipated. Other factors, wild turkey, coyotes round-up(glyphosphate).In my opinion. Tax dollars were used to pay farmers NOT TO PRODUCE. With budget cuts at the USDA crp acreage was cut and as the article indicated the per acre price for crp was not high enough to keep the farmer from RETURNING THAT GROUND BACK TO PRODUCING CROPS. The "let's blame ethanol" band wagon is rolling. As for me I'm not getting on. Never had a problem with ethanol blended gas since its inception here in Iowa in the 70's. gobble

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JimEvans

11-27-2013 16:26:26
66.185.0.197



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Another one sided AP article written by kindergartners. Do they seriously think that pheasants can't live in corn fields? Corn fed pheasants seem to do very well in Iowa.



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Paul

11-27-2013 19:29:16
66.44.132.180



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to JimEvans, 11-27-2013 16:26:26  
If we are concerned about nature, pheasants should be exterminated from North America. They are not native here.

Paul



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David G

11-27-2013 16:32:57
205.215.206.18



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to JimEvans, 11-27-2013 16:26:26  
Pheasants cannot live in corn fields, they need winter cover fields. Habitat loss is the major reason for the decline in pheasant and quail populations.



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IaGary

11-27-2013 16:43:26
108.160.236.246



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to David G, 11-27-2013 16:32:57  
The pheasants declined long before the CRP was plowed up.

In the 70"s we had pheasants all over this farm. No farming practices changed till 2 years ago but the pheasants left 15 years ago.

Coyotes moved in the 80"s along with more Hawks and the turkeys.

Pheasants were leaving before CRP left here.

Gary



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David G

11-27-2013 16:52:04
205.215.206.18



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to IaGary, 11-27-2013 16:43:26  
I do think it was all CRP loss. We do not have fence rows or sloughs like we used to have. The quail have gone with them.



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David G

11-27-2013 19:24:19
205.215.206.18



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to David G, 11-27-2013 16:52:04  
I meant to say "not" all CRP loss, there are other factors I do not understand.



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IaGary

11-27-2013 17:01:29
108.160.236.246



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to David G, 11-27-2013 16:52:04  
No Crp within 4 miles of me ever. No crp to disappear but the pheasants did.

But in the 70's we hunted pheasants all season and always got some.

They even disappeared in the DNR managed ground in the Coralville Reservoir.

They started cutting down all the trees so the hawks will move on a few years back.

By the way I saw 10 pheasants combining this fall. That is 8 more than I saw last year or the few years before that. Still no CRP here.

Gary

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David G

11-27-2013 17:39:06
205.215.206.18



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to IaGary, 11-27-2013 17:01:29  
I have put some acres in CRP this year, and the DNR recommended keeping it away from trees so the hawks will not be able to sit there.

I would agree it is not just loss of CRP because the decline has been so long.



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dino in iowa

11-27-2013 16:23:21
70.209.66.222



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
What did ethanol have to do with the drought, the worst
since the great depresion, people and 8.00 dollar corn change, a lot of people. But blame the goverment now if you wish to make things better.



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Waltdavies

11-27-2013 16:19:59
70.210.136.232



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 Re: Is ethanol bad for wildlife? in reply to Dan T in MO, 11-27-2013 16:08:24  
Pheasant are non native birds and should eliminated to make room for the natural birds like grouse and quail.
Just another view point.
Walt



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