Goodbye Farm Bill

Quietly lost in the government shutdown talk is the fact that the current (already extended last year) farm bill expired. Now they are saying $7 milk by New Years. With the shutdown and then the debt ceiling needing immediate attention, I'm beginning to wonder if we will ever get a new farm bill.
 
Good. Maybe all the taxpayer subsides for farmers and ethanol producers and free food for those too lazy to work will stop. By the way, I grow my own food so don't worry about high prices in stores. I also worked in a food producing company(chicken producer) for 40 years and they did not receive any subsides even after we buried over four million chickens in 1974 due to pesticide contamination
 
(quoted from post at 18:00:36 10/01/13) Quietly lost in the government shutdown talk is the fact that the current (already extended last year) farm bill expired. Now they are saying $7 milk by New Years. With the shutdown and then the debt ceiling needing immediate attention, I'm beginning to wonder if we will ever get a new farm bill.


$7 cwt to farmers, or $7 at the store? Big difference. Know of what you speak before you start spreading it.
 
The farm bill is usually the first thing that gets done every session. It didn't get done last year and none this year either. Our Congress is worse than useless.
 
I think he is referring to the dairy farmer milking cows recieving $7/cwt .
Try producing it for that.
 
At the county Farm Bureau meeting at the end of August,the state president brought it up. He asked how many people there cared if we got a new farm bill. About 5 hands went up. Mine wasn't one of them.
 
I think that $7 in the store thing got taken care of by permanent legislation in the last session didn't it? Reverting back to parity is out the window I believe.
 
No farm bill? Will we really notice? I've been farming to some extent for the last 40 years. Have I received any government help? Yes. If I hadn't got the help would I have gone out of business not no but HE[[ NO!!! I finally went down to the FSA office and told them to take my name off the mailing list. Government intervention has only worsened what they were supposed to help and that is the security of family farms. It's not totally impossible but almost for a young person to get into farming from scratch.
 
To clarify, I meant $7/ gallon at the store. This per the local
news this morning, so I'm just stating what I heard. Whether
that ends up the case or not remains to be seen.
 
Sorry Greig but the farmer does not set the price he gets paid and the price you pay at the food store.
In fact farmers do not set any of the prices they will be paid for their crops unless they are a small operation selling directly to the consumer .
 
I guess I didn't mean it that way. I understand that grain farmers try to sell when the market is up, assuming that they Have the option to sit on it and wait. Also dairy farmers I assume sign a contract to supply a determined amount of milk. They both just try yo sell at the best time. So high prices in the store don't really mean high profits for the farmer.
That being said it was meant as a joke and I apologize if I offended someone there.
 
If you need a farm bill you are part of the problem, a taker, not a contributor.
 
I know what you're saying. I'm trying to get a foothold in the swine production business. I've nearly exhausted my savings but I should be able to make it through until I get some off to market.

If it weren't for craigslist, auctions, the local radio "Country Sale" program and some help from family, I wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm now a firm believer that to be a farmer, one must be an optimist. For a pessimist would never put a seed in the ground or even fill the feeder.
 
Just a thought, not sure how this enter into it, but I grow small fruit, and the exact moment that fruit gets picked, the clock starts ticking. It must MUST get to the consumer within hours, a day or two at the most. Milk is the same, but grain is totally different. Can be stored. have to think about it, but somehow that enters into it.
 
(quoted from post at 15:35:12 10/01/13) I think he is referring to the dairy farmer milking cows recieving $7/cwt .
Try producing it for that.

Nope, they were saying $7.00 @ gal at the store. Scare tactics.
 
Somewhere awhile back I heard that most of the farm assistance was being paid to the BTO and many of which farms were owned by Gov. officials and sports figures for writeoffs anyhow.

My cousin calls it farm welfare.
 
The 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2012. Did the world come to an end on Oct. 1, 2012, without a farm bill? No.
The one-year extension of the 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2013. Did the world come to an end without a farm bill on Oct. 1, 2013? No.
The $7 per gallon milk at the store projection is based on "permanent law" which is still in effect. The House version of the farm bill proposes replacing permanent law with the commodity title in the new farm bill. That has not become law yet as this thread notes. Just cause the House passed it doesn"t make it law.
Yes permanent law does go back to parity pricing and would set the milk support around $35/cwt. or more which is how they are getting to the $7 per gallon in the store.
 
(quoted from post at 00:32:19 10/03/13) The 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2012. Did the world come to an end on Oct. 1, 2012, without a farm bill? No.
The one-year extension of the 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2013. Did the world come to an end without a farm bill on Oct. 1, 2013? No.
The $7 per gallon milk at the store projection is based on "permanent law" which is still in effect. The House version of the farm bill proposes replacing permanent law with the commodity title in the new farm bill. That has not become law yet as this thread notes. Just cause the House passed it doesn"t make it law.
Yes permanent law does go back to parity pricing and would set the milk support around $35/cwt. or more which is how they are getting to the $7 per gallon in the store.

So milk will still be supported?
Price fixing?
 
(quoted from post at 11:32:19 10/02/13) The 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2012. Did the world come to an end on Oct. 1, 2012, without a farm bill? No.
The one-year extension of the 2008 Farm Bill expired Sept. 30, 2013. Did the world come to an end without a farm bill on Oct. 1, 2013? No.
The $7 per gallon milk at the store projection is based on "permanent law" which is still in effect. The House version of the farm bill proposes replacing permanent law with the commodity title in the new farm bill. That has not become law yet as this thread notes. Just cause the House passed it doesn"t make it law.
Yes permanent law does go back to parity pricing and would set the milk support around $35/cwt. or more which is how they are getting to the $7 per gallon in the store.

$35/cwt would be a realistic price and would negate the need for price supports and subsidies, wouldn't it? What makes more sense, underwriting an industry that is forced to accept less for it's product than it costs to produce it by taxing people, or allowing free market forces to hash out the price people are willing to pay? If people were taxed a lot less they'd have a lot more money in their pocket and $7.00 milk wouldn't seem so high, especially when people often pay a lot more than that for soda and water! There are about 6 20 oz bottles of soda in a gallon. At $1.00 (on sale) to $1.99 (at the stop and rob) a bottle that's $6-12.00 a gallon for soda. Bottled water is often more!

$7.00 milk seems kind of low to me.
 
Can somebody explain to me how $7/gallon at the store is a BAD thing for anyone involved in selling the milk?

I still don't understand why farmers INSIST on shooting themselves in the foot. $10/cwt milk is better than $35/cwt is the "farmer logic?" Can't make a profit. Can't do well. Otherwise what excuse would we have to nail ourselves to crosses and moan about how poor and downtrodden we are?
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:14 10/03/13) Can somebody explain to me how $7/gallon at the store is a BAD thing for anyone involved in selling the milk?

I still don't understand why farmers INSIST on shooting themselves in the foot. $10/cwt milk is better than $35/cwt is the "farmer logic?" Can't make a profit. Can't do well. Otherwise what excuse would we have to nail ourselves to crosses and moan about how poor and downtrodden we are?

If people go the the store and continue to buy the same amount of milk at $7.00 per gallon they do at $3.50 (or what ever it is now) perhaps, there is no problem. However, if people see the new price and buy less or decide not to buy then what happens to the over supply? Who will pay the farmer $30/cwt for milk that cannot be sold in stores? Do you require excess dairy farmers stop producing milk, do you assign production limits to each farmer (remember wheat alottments). Or, maybe the goverment can buy the excess milk (remember that)....?
 

Right now dairies are closing their doors Ken. There are very few places with truly stable or growing dairies. The sad truth is that we can't continue to artificially support industries that operate at a loss. So if we pulled the supports for dairy, for angora goats, for crops that don't grow where people are trying to grow them, for CORN, for other areas of the agricultural industry and let market forces determine winners and losers...we'd have a stronger agricultural base in the end. Yeah, it'd hurt. A lot. But the US has had a cheap food policy since the teens IIRC. It hasn't worked out so great. We're having to rob Peter to pay Paul. The corn I paid $8.00/cwt a few years back is $19.00.cwt now and you won't hear a single corn grower complain about it and the subsidies and price supports the gov't has in place that cause that price. You won't hear ADM or Monsanto or any of the hybrid RR seed companies complaining about the $250.00 plus bags of seed corn they sell either or about the laws they're trying to put in place to keep us from growing our own seed that might contain one of their gene strains, even if it's unintentional. It's all mixed up with gov't and corporate entities washing each others backs and buying votes with taxpayer dollars.

It's all a jumbled mess and very little of it is honest or truthful anymore. It can't go on like this forever, so we take some hurt now or take a lot later. I don't see another way out.
 
(quoted from post at 12:03:48 10/03/13)
The corn I paid $8.00/cwt a few years back is $19.00.cwt now and you won't hear a single corn grower complain about it and the subsidies and price supports the gov't has in place that cause that price.

Back to $8.00 here, how much do you want?
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:14 10/03/13) Can somebody explain to me how $7/gallon at the store is a BAD thing for anyone involved in selling the milk?

I still don't understand why farmers INSIST on shooting themselves in the foot. $10/cwt milk is better than $35/cwt is the "farmer logic?" Can't make a profit. Can't do well. Otherwise what excuse would we have to nail ourselves to crosses and moan about how poor and downtrodden we are?

That 7 buck milk to the farmer is per hundred weight. That works out to about 12 gallon of milk. At 7 per hundred and last springs grain prices a farmer would loosing money feeding 8 buck a bushel corn to a cow. With the cost of producing feed for the cows in terms of planting and harvesting crops plus the other cost 7 buck a hundred is in long term fatal. The farmer doesn't set the price he gets paid for anything. They tell the farmer how much they will pay.

How to fix this isn't government price supports.

They (the government) allow companies to IMPORT milk. There is a penalty if they import more than allowed but it's cheaper to buy milk from South America and pay the penalty than it is to buy milk here. Companies that make processed cheese and other foods are allowed to import dry milk and to use that. That's why the big food companies are fighting the Country Of Origin Labeling laws. Some consumers and most farmers want these laws regardless of % of imported food product. The food companies don't want it at all. I'm in the camp that says if we produce it imports should only be allowed based on need. If we are producing enough then we don't allow imports. It's only been sense they have allowed milk to be imported that milk prices have been so bad.

Rick
 

Bret,

Your reply is confusing to me. If we delete the farm bill and go back to permanment law the price of milk goes up...it is still supported. I would like to see less government involvement in pricing, I think we agree on that but what are you recommending?

Respectfully,

Ken
 
(quoted from post at 09:10:09 10/03/13)
(quoted from post at 12:03:48 10/03/13)
The corn I paid $8.00/cwt a few years back is $19.00.cwt now and you won't hear a single corn grower complain about it and the subsidies and price supports the gov't has in place that cause that price.

Back to $8.00 here, how much do you want?

Shell corn for $8.00 a hundred pounds? If you have a good supply I'll let my feed dealer know!!!
 
(quoted from post at 15:08:13 10/03/13)
(quoted from post at 06:55:14 10/03/13) Can somebody explain to me how $7/gallon at the store is a BAD thing for anyone involved in selling the milk?

I still don't understand why farmers INSIST on shooting themselves in the foot. $10/cwt milk is better than $35/cwt is the "farmer logic?" Can't make a profit. Can't do well. Otherwise what excuse would we have to nail ourselves to crosses and moan about how poor and downtrodden we are?

That 7 buck milk to the farmer is per hundred weight. That works out to about 12 gallon of milk. At 7 per hundred and last springs grain prices a farmer would loosing money feeding 8 buck a bushel corn to a cow. With the cost of producing feed for the cows in terms of planting and harvesting crops plus the other cost 7 buck a hundred is in long term fatal. The farmer doesn't set the price he gets paid for anything. They tell the farmer how much they will pay.

How to fix this isn't government price supports.

They (the government) allow companies to IMPORT milk. There is a penalty if they import more than allowed but it's cheaper to buy milk from South America and pay the penalty than it is to buy milk here. Companies that make processed cheese and other foods are allowed to import dry milk and to use that. That's why the big food companies are fighting the Country Of Origin Labeling laws. Some consumers and most farmers want these laws regardless of % of imported food product. The food companies don't want it at all. I'm in the camp that says if we produce it imports should only be allowed based on need. If we are producing enough then we don't allow imports. It's only been sense they have allowed milk to be imported that milk prices have been so bad.

Rick

Rick, the $7.00 a gallon milk was reported to be the price consumers would be paying at the store when the scare tactics were in play. If dairy farmers actually got $7.00 a gallon they'd be jumping for joy. Currently in my area farmers are getting about $19.00/cwt. $7.00/cwt would be about 58 cents a gallon to the farmer. At $19.00 it's $1.58 a gallon. But trucking and a lot of other stuff come out before the farmer gets his check and then he has to pay for the production of the milk.

I think we're arguing for the same point but coming at it from different directions.
 
(quoted from post at 15:08:42 10/03/13)
Bret,

Your reply is confusing to me. If we delete the farm bill and go back to permanment law the price of milk goes up...it is still supported. I would like to see less government involvement in pricing, I think we agree on that but what are you recommending?

Respectfully,

Ken

I'm saying the ultimate answer is to get gov't out of the price support and limit business altogether. This isn't 1890 and we aren't having the Gold Standard vs Silver Standard debates, William Jennings Bryant and the Populists are no where to be seen. This is about sustainable paradigms, artificial supports and limits and corporate/gov't collusion. I'm just a dumb hick sheep farmer, but even I can see that we can't continue to rob Peter to pay Paul and then limit what Peter can earn and who he can buy his raw materials from. Well, actually we CAN keep doing that. But it ends up with either 10 or 15% of the population supporting the rest or with a Marxist gov't and economy where no one actually owns anything and the gov't decides who grows what, where, how, when, how much, etc. Neither of those options appeals much to me. Truthfully, I'm very surprised the whole mess hasn't fallen apart already.
 
They are paying $3.92 a bushel locally at the moment(65 cent negative off of CBOT), 56# bushel. Works out to Right at $7 a hundred. By the time I get done paying drying fees I am looking at closer to $3.50 on the early corn that needs to come off this week so my wheat can go on.


If this year is like last, the basis number will get a little better as the year goes on. The nearest ethanol plant is paying better, but I would spend the extra money in gas hauling it there(old Chevy with a 366, 4-5 mpg).
 
Western PA near the intersection of I-79 and I-80. The combine is sitting in the driveway... Ready to roll, probably start Thursday. I'm trying to get the most possible natural drying, while balancing the need to get the wheat established this fall.
 
The $7 figure is PER GALLON, AT THE STORE.

It never made sense to me. Why would the loss of subsidies cause the price to go UP so dramatically?

I could see it if $7/cwt put most dairy farmers out of business, but that would take months/years. Then there would be a shortage.

BUT!!!! The "scare tactics" claimed that milk would shoot up to $7 per gallon at the store IMMEDIATELY, as in the day after the farm bill expired.

There's still plenty of milk in process. The cows didn't all just disappear overnight.

Ultimately, farmers wouldn't need subsidies if people would just PAY FOR THEIR DAMN FOOD! In most other countries in the world, people spend 50% or more of their earnings on food. Here, we blow it on used BMW's, iphones and video games, and then whine to the government because food is too expensive.
 
(quoted from post at 16:23:55 10/03/13)
(quoted from post at 15:08:13 10/03/13)
(quoted from post at 06:55:14 10/03/13) Can somebody explain to me how $7/gallon at the store is a BAD thing for anyone involved in selling the milk?

I still don't understand why farmers INSIST on shooting themselves in the foot. $10/cwt milk is better than $35/cwt is the "farmer logic?" Can't make a profit. Can't do well. Otherwise what excuse would we have to nail ourselves to crosses and moan about how poor and downtrodden we are?

That 7 buck milk to the farmer is per hundred weight. That works out to about 12 gallon of milk. At 7 per hundred and last springs grain prices a farmer would loosing money feeding 8 buck a bushel corn to a cow. With the cost of producing feed for the cows in terms of planting and harvesting crops plus the other cost 7 buck a hundred is in long term fatal. The farmer doesn't set the price he gets paid for anything. They tell the farmer how much they will pay.

How to fix this isn't government price supports.

They (the government) allow companies to IMPORT milk. There is a penalty if they import more than allowed but it's cheaper to buy milk from South America and pay the penalty than it is to buy milk here. Companies that make processed cheese and other foods are allowed to import dry milk and to use that. That's why the big food companies are fighting the Country Of Origin Labeling laws. Some consumers and most farmers want these laws regardless of % of imported food product. The food companies don't want it at all. I'm in the camp that says if we produce it imports should only be allowed based on need. If we are producing enough then we don't allow imports. It's only been sense they have allowed milk to be imported that milk prices have been so bad.

Rick

Rick, the $7.00 a gallon milk was reported to be the price consumers would be paying at the store when the scare tactics were in play. If dairy farmers actually got $7.00 a gallon they'd be jumping for joy. Currently in my area farmers are getting about $19.00/cwt. $7.00/cwt would be about 58 cents a gallon to the farmer. At $19.00 it's $1.58 a gallon. But trucking and a lot of other stuff come out before the farmer gets his check and then he has to pay for the production of the milk.

I think we're arguing for the same point but coming at it from different directions.

Bret, I was responding the post that stated that 7 dollar milk to a farmer should be good. Pointing out that if a farmer is seeing that 7 buck per gallon but that means milk that is 7 per hundred weight. Not 7 per gallon. Lots of folks out there don't understand just how the farmer is paid. Like the going rate for beef or hogs. Nor do they understand the cost on in-puts to produce any marketable product to sell. It's really funny when talking to someone who doesn't understand that the whole pig or cow isn't prime cuts.

Rick

Rick
 
Gotcha Rick. I figured we were on the same page.

I don't even begin to understand beef and hog pricing. All I know is I just netted about .73 cents a pound for lamb that used to get me well over $2.00. That's farming...
 

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