Ot Jetta diesel vs cruz diesel

Nick m

Member
My wife and I will be in the market for a car soon. I'm really considering a diesel this time because we both put alot of miles on our cars. Chevy has a cruz diesel that just came out and then there are the good old vws. I would like to go gm. Because they are assembled in the us and their warranty is longer. 5 year 100000 vs 60000 for the vw. Anyone have experience with either of these? I don't want to get into the gas vs diesel thing because you won't change my mind. Just want to compare the 2. Thanks
 
I have a 99 Jetta TDI. I've put 230k miles on it and it still runs great. I am fighting the rust battle now trying to keep it from deteriorating. It gets a little better than 50mpg commuting 25 mostly country miles to work. The new ones don't get that kind of mileage I don't believe. The VWs do have issues with electrical gremlins and mine has had it's share but so far I have been able to work around them.
 
VW has a good track record with the auto diesel market. Chevy hasn't been in the auto diesel market seriously for 30 years. Might want to think about that. As for made in the US, assembly is about the only thing on a GM car from the US and even that is not a given, depending on the model. The company we saved uses mostly Chinese parts, hows that for a kick in the pants. The new Silverado lists over 51% foreign parts content.
 
Where do you think the VM diesel was designed and is now built?
Don"t forget to install a lift kit, big mudder tires and a chrome stack.
 
I doubt hardly a thing in the Cruz is US sourced. That ijcludes much of the money to support GM during their horrific mismanagement. Hey - it would be neat if GM payed us taxpayers back sometime.

My wife and I still have two 1991 diesel Jettas. Near 50 MPG but 45 is more usual. One thing I'll say about VW. They don't make their cars obsolete in 10 years and parts are always available.

The downside to me is the price of diesel versus gas. Here in NY - diesel is just about always 40-50 cents more per gallon. Plenty of gas cars that end up being just as cheap to drive as a diesel around here.
 
The problem is what they got in the past has no bearing on what the new ones will do. Federal emissions has wrecked the market and added a whole new level of complexity to the game.

Wait until Tier 4 emission standards come into play on all new equipment - it adds about $20,000 to the price of a new semi.
 
Aren"t VW"s built in the U.S. Now ?
AND.. the VW Diesel has been proven for many
years.(I know of a sawmill run 8 hours a day,5
days a week, for 12 years on a VW TDI engine..No
problems) Where is the GM engine sourced ? how
long has it been in production? Whats its Record
Many GM auto diesels, in the past, were failures!
 
Isn't the Cruz diesel just now being offered ?

I think that means people who own one will have very limited experience.

I like to spend my money on models that have a performance history. Not trying to hype the VW here although I drive one.

Do a search for common rail fuel system on the VW's and see what you find. I'm driving a 2010 with my fingers crossed at +70k with no issues yet.

Their automatic DSG tranny was too new for me to bite on at the time though. Research there may also be in order.
 
State of Tennessee gave Volkswagen huge dollars to locate there. Amounted to $280,000 per job. Jobs paid about $25,000/yr....VW gets 10 years of free labor to move to Tennessee. Tennessee and VW teamed up to put other Americans out of work. Red state. Hard to compete with.
Texas gave Toyota $300 million to build a plant there. Guess that does not count as a GOVT.Bailout. Red state

Dig a little deeper...it is good for the brain but hard on the dogma.
 
VW's are now built in the US of A . Given their long and successful run of diesel engines I would sure stay away from Govt Motors new and unproven engines. Gm hasn't had the best luck with small diesels . Germans have had them for about 100 years.
 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori

These Fiat motors must be alright. They have been used for years by Alfa Romeo, British Leyland, Range Rover, Chrysler, Jeep, Ford, GM, Daewoo, Hyundai, Kia etc.
 
After having been BURNED royally on a first generation diesel engine, (6.0 ford), I would NEVER buy a first year model of anything with a new engine/car combination.
 
With that warrantee and if you have a good GM dealer near by I would go with the Chevy. From what I hear VW's are not all that good anymore. I think GM learned enough from their previous diesels to not make the same mistakes over again. I am pretty sure they have a lot of small diesel experience in the rest of the world to do it right. We are probably one of the only countries that does not use mostly diesel engines in cars.
And I think GM has paid back most of the bail-out money, with interest!
 
I commute 200 mile a day, and have an 03 Jetta TDI, and have had pretty good luck with it. Ran synthetic oil in it, changed every 8 to 10k and got 47mpg with 380,000 miles on it. I changed my timing belt every 100k, but the last one only lasted 80k. When they break, it wrecks the motor (still had original pump, injectors and turbo)
Don't know much about the Cruz, other than you have to get it with an automatic
Pete
 
How much are parts for these? Like breake parts, normal wear and tear stuff compared to other cars. How.much of a pain is the timing belt?
 
I didn't know what make of diesel engine they put in the Cruze. I googled it, but of course, there's never a mention of just what engine it is- just that its very wonderful in every way. I called the local dealer, and spoke to Dufus, one of their salespeople. He thought it was a Chevrolet, and wouldn't be dissuaded. Even got a little condescending with me, for my being so ill informed. I predict great things for Dufus in the car sales business- lots of enthusiasm, with little knowledge to slow things up.

So I guess its a Fiat? If its anything like those they put in the Fiat Olivers back in the day, should be pretty good.
 
http://www.vmmotori.it/uploads/doc/1695.pdf

US military is rumoured to be testing the VM diesels.
Gale Banks is souping them to high powered units.
The breathing problem with the diesel"s short cam timing has been worked around with the dual over head cam and four valve head. Iirc they can vary advance and retard the cams to provide startup compression and high rpm breathing.
 


Edd the thing of it is every state regardless of the color gives huge incentives to any established business to build in their state plus the local city and county does the same. So there is no need to derail this thread with political BS.

Rick
 
Nick,

I don't post much, so I'm not sure if the question is for me, but if done at VW, it's about $600 for parts (that's the belt, tensioner and water pump) and $800 for labor.
My local guy did it for $900 total (course the one he did was the one that broke prematurely)
I may pull the head this winter and see how bad it is.
Pete
Pete
 
You might want to go to tdifaq to see what has been posted there.
With a Jetta you can get a wagon and manual trans. I have read that the high pressure fuel pumps die. VW stayed away from DEF but I believe the 14 model uses it and they get back some of the lost mpg. Off the top of my head though so do the research.
 
Mazda was to of had their diesel on sale by now ,but I think they are having some kinda problems with it ?

If you are bound and determined to have a diesel car in the USA there is but one choice. VW
I'd let the others get some experience making them before I'd buy one. Those I have talked to with the VW seem to really like them.
 
Yea,they paid it back by ripping off the stock and bond owners,not to mention people who have retired on pension.
 
There's more to it than just the engine/trans also. I have a 2006 VW 1.9 turbo with factory charge air cooler and automatic. Gets 46 combined and 50 highway. I drive 60-65 mph which puts it right at it's torque sweet spot of 2000 rpm. This car has 187000 miles and looks and drives like new. No rust starting at all. It uses no oil in an 8000 mi oil change with synthetics since new. Also , just as an example, the front control arms are made of 3/16 "I" stock instead of stamped "tin" like I'm sure the Cruze will come with. The underside of this engine / trans is absolutely DRY with no oil or TF leaks what so ever. It drives and steers/handles as tight now as a new Cruze will. Tried and true against a first year offering??? No brainer there!!! Guarrantee it is NOT an existing engine just borrowed! May have started out as a "Fiat" etc but you know what happens when the bean counters at GM call the shots. Go with the VW !!! Buying American, in cars, is nothing more than a catch phrase anymore. VW worked out their "bugs" long time ago. You wanna be GM's next ginnea pig??
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a125201.jpg
 
If GM is using Chinese parts then prove to me how many VW's don't have Chinese OR German pts or Mexican or Canadian.. I don't think you can buy a Ford pickup without a amazda transmission. Course they own over 50% of Mazda--Does that make it more legal. How about Chrysler products. If your going to compare cars with countries you better do some checking.
 
As a died in the wool, bleed chevy orange guy, I have to tell you to get the VW. Throw a timing belt at it every 100k, and you will be a happy man. Remember when the D-MAX came out? IT SUCKED, a couple years later they had them lined out. I can see the new diesel cruz ending up the same way. The VW is a proven performer!
 
My brother"s summer car is Jetta TDI station wagon. It is about 10 years old and it has served them well. He says it is a superb long distance high speed cruiser that they especially enjoy on their trips to visit their daughter in Arizona.

However he is not sure he will get another TDI when he needs to replace this Jetta. While it gets incredible fuel mileage, oil changes and the rest of the recommended servicing is substantially more than it would be for a gas engined vehicle. They don"t use it much if at all in the winter, because getting in and out of their place with much snow at all requires 4WD. So the potential winter diesel starting problems are a non-issue for them. But the price of diesel sure is--it is usually a bit higher than the highest priced gasoline, at least around here. My brother wonders if he could do better on a cost per mile with a gasoline-direct injection powered small car.

My brother just replaced his old winter car, a Suzuki 4wd with a new Subaru, but I have not seen it yet. They have had good luck with Subarus in the past.

VW has been making TDI type diesels a long time. However without researching the engine in the new vehicles, I would be hesitant to say it is proven. It might be substantially different than last year"s model. Manufacturers sometimes do that. On the other hand, I don"t know anything about the Cruz diesel--it might be great. But GM sometimes has put out products that probably should have been tested a couple of years more before they went into production. I would be very leery of a brand new diesel that the service departments of the dealers have no experience with. I remember the Vega and the various 350 diesels. Not the best record...and I pay attention to such things.

I would suggest driving both diesels and also trying some of the new gas-direct injection powered cars that have come out the last couple of years. If cost per mile is your main concern, you might be surprised at how well the GDI cars come out. But you are the ones who have to make the decision. Good luck!
 
But what you fail to realize is that Tennessee keeps a balanced budget (actually a large surplus this year). You can't argue with those politics. BTW.... Tennessee also doesn't have an income tax. Yes, we are proudly a conservative red state.

You can fuss about TN all you like so long as you keep paying KY their beloved tax :)
 
The Federal government got back 30 billion dollars out of 50 billion they pumped into GM. I don't know what kind of math you use - but mine calls that a 20 billion dollar loss. If GM stocks soar - it's possible more money will be paid back to taxpayers.d And as the Feds keep selling off GM stock - any chance of that becomes lessened.

And yeah, for a short time GM tried advertising that they'd paid back their debt but got called on that bogus info and stopped claiming it. The stocks the Feds bought is often not called a "debt."

I was a life-long GM fan - but no more. If GM had really gone away -another car company would of taken up the slack and we'd all be better off.
Ford is the only American car company left that hasn't been living off the dole or is foreign owned (like Chrysler/Jeep).

GM has been banking on Americans having short memories and I guess they called it right.
 
VW has been making extremely reliable small car Diesel engines for decades

GM's history for car diesels really bad

They have great heavy Diesel engine but the light duty car ones in the past sucked

Hands down go with the VW

Many this new one is a great engine --- try it on your money and let me know in 10 years.
 
I had a friend that had a diesel Chevette back in the 80's? He called it his Vette! I think the engine held up well. The reason diesels have never become popular in the US is as much as we talk about good mileage, 0-60 in 4 seconds is more important!
 
Yeah, and after that extra $20K, the guys up in the North Dakota and Canadian oil fields are having the dealer take them around to the shop, and dropping another $10K (Cummins) and $15K (Cat) to strip the motor of wiring harnesses, DPF, turbo and ECM (Cat) to get them to run more than a couple days in the winter.
 
I agree we should not have bailout gm but we bailed out Germany and Japan after ww 2. so they could rebuild there factorys vw was horrible during the war and used slave labor to help build the war machine.
 
Timing belt is a bit of a pain because there is an engine mount in the middle of it so the engine must be supported and unbolted from that mount. Some special tools are needed to get the timing right and all the idlers and water pump should be done at then same time. Fortunately it's only every 100k miles.
 
I agree we should not have bailout gm but we bailed out Germany and Japan after ww 2. so they could rebuild there factorys vw was horrible during the war and used slave labor to help build the war machine.
 
We still have a '00 diesel Beetle that we bought new. 243,000 miles and still running strong. Body looks great yet but have had our share of the old electrical gremlins. I would strongly recommend getting the manual trans as those autos have had some problems. Those new auto's on just about any car scare me to be honest with their double clutches, 8 speeds, etc. Seems like a lot to go wrong. We have the original clutch in our manual too yet. 40-45 mpg. The best car we have ever owned, but our Honda Odyssey is close. I'd love to buy American but it seems like I get burned every time I try 'em.
 
(quoted from post at 04:37:16 08/15/13)
Don"t forget to install a lift kit, big mudder tires and a chrome stack.


Now Darn it, I know that you don't like diesel trucks, but not all of us Diesel Pickup owners do that. Some of us mount DMI Bumpers, Fuel Transfer Tanks, and Gooseneck hitches and then use them as the trucks they are.
End of rant. -Andy
 
Personally, I wouldn't buy either one, but it's your money. When the Japanese mfgs. start selling a diesel here I might consider one. How about a Subaru Forester with a 3 cyl. Kubota diesel... now you are talking!

BTW, at least around me gas and diesel have come closer together in price, only about 30 cent difference.
 
Hey, I wasn't saying anything bad about Canadians. I have lived 60 miles from the Canadian border for 81 years. According to an article I read awhile back about cars is this--Any car that has computer equipment in it has Chinese parts. There is a very small amount of computer parts not made in China. In fact most of our military equipment has Chinese made parts in them.
 

I have a friend that just bought the new diesel cruze. Has 3000 miles on it and loves it. He says he gets 52mpg on the highway (drives 100 miles a day) I rode in it and it seemed to ride ok at 90 mph and was very peppy.
 
(quoted from post at 17:52:27 08/15/13) I agree we should not have bailout gm but we bailed out Germany and Japan after ww 2. so they could rebuild there factorys vw was horrible during the war and used slave labor to help build the war machine.

I sure wasen't all that happy about a GM bailout but I was even less happy about the potential loss of 700000+ jobs if they weren't bailed out!
 

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