OT:Farm estate, unusual trust quest. John T? others?

I'l be brief. Aunt and Uncle with no children appoint me and brother admin of trust 20 yrs ago. I was not as smart then and neither of us have copies. They are very simple country folks and private people and trust nearly no one. Age and health is just about at the tipping point (90). If I do too much asking I may get the ole "not dead yet and he wants our money" blast. I don't even know their bank or lawyer' name. Bro asked and they say we'll think about it, etc. Uncle is paranoid and thinks everyone is stealing his stuff and aunt kinda has to go along with him. I was able to gradually take over my folks affairs so I know what should be done but I am not sure what my rights are in this case. I need POA for them in actuality. There are a few "shirt tail" relatives coming out of the woodwork now that the end is near and they know they have some money and land.

You have a tough row to hoe, I wish you good luck. My dad got real paranoid the last couple of years and it was an uphill battle.

That Trust has to be recorded; check with the local county courthouse.

Talk to attorney in your state!!!! You can get POA if they are incometant in some states but it is very hard. Most states have a recording at the county court house You should be able to get deeds, wills, POA copies etc there. Mike and JT will be the best help for you here. Watch some relative does not have them "sign a paper" and record it!!! That to is an uphill battle to overturn it. OH DO SOMETHING NOW BEFORE THE STATE STEPS IN AND SELLS THERE LAND TO PAY FOR ELDER HOME CARE.

RedTom, I don"t know where you"re from, and maybe trusts need to be recorded where VADAVE is from (Virginia, presumably), but they don"t have to be recorded in Missouri, nor in many other states.

I would recommend that you contact your own attorney, who can advise you properly as to the law in your state, rather than seeking advice on a tractor forum.

If you don"t live in the same state as your aunt and uncle, you"ll need to contact an attorney in the state where they live.

I agree generally with what jocco said. (He posted while I was typing.)

Best of luck, if nothing else try to make sure the trust is recorded, that is a matter of public record, no violation of anyones trust. Now for the fun part in absence of poa, you need a name on a checkbook and that is extremely touchy. My grandmother finally put me, (oldest grandchild)only write a check after her death. I know these are tough things to ask for but ask your uncle who he would rather have you his nephew or the county attorney and clerk and master delving through all his stuff.

Start with your attorney. You will have to somehow find out their attorney and bank. POA should be recorded. Who is executor of the estate? That is real critical. Is there a will? That is also critical.

You have a very long uphill battle. This week I will complete breaking up my parent's estate. Been a ton of forms. Indiana still has inheritance tax. It took me 6 months to get everything documented for that alone.

Get with a lawyer in the state where the Uncle resides. It does not inspire hope that up to this point the Uncle has not informed you that you have POA or will be executor when he and the Mrs. pass. If the uncle feels attention starved that will be worse as who knows what he will agree to to get some out of the woodwork relative to visit. He may have not decided to do much with you as he may have figured he had you sewed up so to speak.

Tom--you write:"Aunt and Uncle with no children appoint me and brother admin of trust 20 yrs ago."

Most trusts read "if Tom (the trustee) is willing and able" to act, otherwise, Joe, otherwise, etc. If and when both grantors of the trust die, the trustee does not have to act.

I would just ask them if you and your brother are still listed as trustees, and if so, if you could have a copy of it, so you don"t have to go through a search and possibly costly effort to get one.

If you aunt and uncle are not incapacitated, they will have to agree to give you or anyone else POA and both parties need to agree to it in writing.

Someone offering you POA, should trust you enough to get a copy of the will, trust, or any other accounts, etc. you are being granted the POA for.

Tim (non attorney)

Best of luck. Sounds like the old folk are good enough to be in charge, but don't trust anyone to take over.

That's a tough place to be. For them, and for you.

Shoulda woulda coulda, you already said you know what you shoulda done, didn't happen 20 years ago, so no point rehashing that.

If you can talk nice with them and see where that leads, is about your only option. First relative that does the best talking right now will be the winner, and that is how that is going to go.

It won't be about being right or being honest, it's about who is the best smooth talker and says what they want to hear. If you don't have the gift for chatting, gonna be a tough one.

Sorry, and good luck.

Paul

It sounds like OP has passed the point where he can talk to the Uncle. The OP has indicated the Uncle has reached the point where he thinks everybody is after all his worldly goods. As I sort of alluded to the poster who stated the smoothest talker from here on in will be the winner is apt. I guess the lesson here is the time to have firmed up an agreement should have been many years ago. I hope the OP does not have a lot of time and money wrapped up to help the Uncle to this point as the OP may be SOL.

You are right, that trust could have been changed 30 times in the last 20 years with more "changes" coming from concerned "helpers".

Thus, lawsuit "seeds" and "ill-feelings" are planted and fertilised....and grow rapidly into ugly foliage, that rarely dies.

Tim

Tom - I just went through this very thing. Aunt and Uncle with no kids. They were a little more willing to try to tell me things, but like you, I didn't want to hear it thinking that it would look like I was wanting for them to hurry up and go...Here is the best advice I can give you. Please go sit down with them when they can give you the time and go over the things that they are expecting of you. The laywers office (if there was one) that prepared the trust will more than likely get in touch with you and your brother when the time comes, but I would strongly advise getting with the A & U to find out details. I found out that after the fact is waaay too late. I would just tell them that you want to make sure that things are done the way they expect them, and I'll promise you that tomorrow may be too late. One other thing, be prepared to loose the relationship with your relatives that are left out. Some of them will all of a sudden have no use for you..hehe! Please visit with them now, to save a lot of manhours later. Things like Insurance Policies, Bank Accounts, IRA's and the like. Like I said, I just got finished with the very same scenario. Good luck, cause you will earn anything you may receive. Bob

I think Paul has it right.

Legally, there is absolutely nothing you can do, because you serve as trustee at the pleasure of the principle (Aunt and Uncle), and if they or their attorney hear from your attorney, I can just about guarantee that the next communiction you get will be to relieve you of your position as trustee. Of all the times you need an attorney, this isn't one of them.

Best bet is to sit down with them, very low key, just wanting to make sure you can carry out their wishes, and it would be easier if you had a copy of the trust and knew how they wanted you to handle things. No push-back if they resist, drop it, but maybe mention it in the future again.

Sadly, someone may take advantage of them, and there's not much you can do about it, unless you can prove after the fact that they were not competent. Pretty much anything you try to do to prevent others from scooping the pond will look to them as if you are just trying to beat them to it.

This soumds like exactly what I was thinking. I know this forum is not the way to seek counsel but look at all the experience here! My bro just visited and was able to tell them that their wishes MUST be in writing and we need to have them so they can be carried out but thats about all that was accomplished. He also told them we don't have a copy of anything. I know a thousand changes could've been made in the last 20 yrs I(we) didn't need to be informed but he has told me over and over the farm is ours. I just don't know what i can do if one should die suddenly and the other fall apart and maybe go to a home. Can I go in their house? Do I padlock it? etc. I also really don't wish to pay hundreds to my lawyer to learn that I can't do anything. And I sure don't want to scare them either because it is a difficult time in life for them. Ther are a few BTO's pestering them frequently to sell which is their choice but I would like it to be a wise informed one if they do.

One smart move, if they would consider, would be to make one of you a Power of Attorney. That way you might have a little say if one of them passes, or one or both become incapable of handling their affairs. That is what my Aunt and Uncle did, which saved me a lot of time and grief.
Another thing is, if you are talking to them about the situation, and they just keep changing the subject, such as talking about old times, etc, would be to make them get back onto the subject. Obviously not as easy as that sounds. HOWEVER, if they are getting aggravated and changing the subject, then you are obligated to stop. I still think that if you explain to them that you need to know things if you are to carry out their wishes, they may very well discuss it out with you. Bob