OT - piano recommendation

K. Peters

Member
Hi everyone, always get good advice here so I thought I'd see what you folks say.
My daughter plays piano and has been asked by our church if she would start playing at some of the services. I like the idea but feel she is not ready for this yet as she never played an organ before. She is 13 and going to be confirmed in a few weeks and as a gift for her we'd like to get her a decent piano. The only thing I know about pianos is they are heavy. Are certain makes better than others? What do you folks advise?
We were going to get her a keyboard but from talking to her piano teacher and the organist at church they strongly advised against the keyboard idea.
 
We always had Yamaha, they are very good quality. I would check the music stores for good used ones.
 
I would look at Craigs List in your area. I often see them in the free section. My daughter also wanted to play the panio. We found one for not too much money, which was good, as she soon lost interest in panios, when horses, and boys came along. If I were you I would find a inexpensive one that plays well. In a couple years if she is still playing her panio, go for a better one. I know this doesn't answer your question. This is just what I went through with panios, and yes they are heavy. Stan
 
Call a local college/university that has a music program. Ask the prof for a recommendation of a piano tuner. Call the tuner and ask Him/her two questions: Do you know of any pianos that are reasonable and for sale? and Would you look over a piano I might find to see if it is usable/tunable? Jim
 

I've been playing the piano/keyboard most of my life, just for reference. The reason the others mentioned not to use a keyboard is the feel of the keyboard touch is generally much lighter than it takes to strike the keys on the piano. I prefer the keyboard any day over a piano. It's kind of like playing an electric guitar vs an acoustic guitar. Once you play the electric, it is very hard to go back to an acoustic because of the lightness of the feel of the electric. Like I said, I grew up playing the piano but much prefer the keyboard because it is so much more versatile. The thing about the keyboard is that it is transportable and the piano is not. You also would need an amp with a quality keyboard. I use a Korg keyboard/amp and they will do just about anything you can imagine. Why don't you stop in a couple of larger music stores that sell this stuff and let her try out the different items and of course they usually have someone that will demonstrate what can really be done with these things. Then you could look for a used item similar to what she likes overall, or I am sure they would be glad to sell you a new one...lol :eek:
 
Some of the disdain for keyboards might be because the early ones weren't "touch sensitive", and they usually didn't have a sustain pedal. Those features are available on modern keyboards for not much money. I'm not a piano player, but I've been around them a lot. I'd rather have a good keyboard. Every time you move a standard piano, it'll need re-tuned. A person won't fool with an instrument that's not properly tuned. It's kinda like listening to someone dragging their fingernails on a chalkboard.
 
Don't pay too much for a used one as they can easily be in need of a lot of repairs that aren't seen by the untrained eye (or ear). Ofter times the "action" is worn and they need to be regulated which is 3 or 4 hunnerd bucks around here. Asking a local piano tuner is a good start, or get someone who plays to help you look.... The two I have now are Heintzman & Co. they were built in 1913 and 1915. They both hold their tune well. One was given to me and the other I paid 700 for at an auction. The free one is going to have the action fixed sometime this summer after teaching season is over. If they hold their tune and the action isn't too noisy, you can pay a few hunnerd for it, otherwise, a piano store is the place to go, you're gonna pay more, but they'll deliver and probably guarantee it for the short term.

Good luck
 
If your going to by a used piano take somebody with you that knows pianos. Here are some good companies that are good and not out of this world on price ( depending on model) are Wurlitzer, Steinway, Baldwin and Charles R. Walter ( if jou can find a used one). We bought a Baldwin for our daughter when she was in High school. She is now married and she has a Steinway but she comes home and plays the Baldwin. She tells us the Balbwin has a better tone than the Steinway.
 
We started with a regular upryte piano.Finding someone to tune it got tough. Was able to trade it back to same dealer on a Kawai electric piano.
The keys are wieghted to feel like a regular piano. My kids love it & I don't have to pay to get it tuned.Some friends really like their Yamaha electrics.
 
I've played for over 30 years. I have two pianos in my house - a 1930 Gulbranson player piano and the Baldwin I got when I started. I wouldn't have any other.

The biggest curve she will have is that the church likely has a grand piano (or baby grand). They are much harder to play just due to their longer linkage. Her fingers and hands will be mighty sore.

I wish you were close - I would sell you the newer Baldwin really cheap. I no longer play much as it is harder since my stroke.
 
My wife wanted to take piano lessons and she has several friends that play.I bought her a new piano over 30 years ago and it still sets unused in the basement.
 
My daughter was asked to be the full time pianist in our church at age 14. We also had an organist, so she didn't need to jump that learning curve.

My suggestion is to get something that is similar to the one at the church. It doesn't have to be just like it. If they have a baby grand, you don't have to look for that. What I mean is find a decent upright or even a studio piano (upright but shorter). The suggestion to find a local piano tuner is a very good one.

And the daughter, now 41 years old, did that gig for ten years. She is now one of the band directors at a local high school. She says one of the hardest things to do is to play in a church with the people singing. They naturally speed up and slow down, it's not automatic.
 
Is she going to play the piano or the organ at church? No sense getting a piano if she's going to play the organ. You can get keyboards that do both and don't take up all the room of a piano. They are also relatively inexpensive. Is she planning to play more outside of church?

The GF was given an older piano for free cause her friend moved. All she had to pay was a couple hundred bucks to have it moved. It was in bad need of having to be tuned but the estimates for that ranged from $1000 to $1800! You can buy a darn good keyboard that doesn't need to be tuned for a lot less than $1000.
 
I would be curious as to why they would recommend against a digital piano. As long as it has weighted keys, the difference in playing isn't all that significant and it is way more flexible. We have a digital piano and it is a lot more convenient to move around if needed and also for the others in the house who don't have to listen to hours of practice. I would think that she'd be able to practice a lot more if she can put on headphones (like later at night) and do it quietly without disturbing others. I recommend looking at Rolands, they are high quality and sound really nice.
 
Strongly suggest a keyboard, even a inexpensive one. Far more versaitle than a piano, portable. Probably less expensive, and will not need tounig and repair like conventional piano. We had one that would go out of tune as soon as the technician would clear the driveway. In it's defense, we have wearher and humidity extremes which are not in a piano's favor. Gave it away, and gave wife a Yamaha keyboard. No maintenance problems, portable, many vioces.... Never lookse back.
 
Years ago when my daughter was in school she wanted to play piano. A distant cousin of mine had a Munn she wanted to get rid of. I took 3 guys and went to get it in the pickup. The guy had just taken the front porch off his house for a rebuild so 3 guys could just roll it out the front door right on to the pickup. Those thing are very heavy,not going anywhere, no need to tie it down. I drove carefully out onto the road 1 block to the center of town made a left turn and over she went off the truck just missing a parked car. Took 6 guys to get it back on the truck.
Took it home put it in the garage.Did you know there's only 2 screws to take out and you can take the whole front off. When it went off the truck the front half of the top opened up so it landed on the inside of the top flipped over onto it,s knees so the only damage was to the inside of the top half of the top and the ornately carved legs of the piano. After cleanup and refinishing, there were no noticeable marks on the piano. All the dirt and dust of over 50 years was loosened up and vacuumed out. A card was found inside that said it was last tuned in 1929. Had a piano tuner come and tune it and he said it was a very high quality piano, one of the nicest he had ever worked on.
As for electric organs I have seen them go really cheap at auctions. We couldn't give away the one out of our church when it was replaced with a better one.
 
Good thoughts so far. I will reiterate a few and maybe add a little.

Used piano from a private party is really a crap shoot, probably as bad or worse than a used car. Find a local tuner and get some input similar to having a local mechanic go over a car although most on this forum would probably not have a mechanic look at a car, know your limitations.

Know what you are trying to buy, professional quality music instruments are expensive, but generally play so much better (back to my car anology kind of like the difference between a Mercedes and a Ford). I am of the opinion that many kids would enjoy music lessons much more if they were not crippled by student quality instruments. Upside is that pro instruments will hold their value somewhat, while the student instrument is probably going to be tough to unload without taking a loss or giving it away.

Probably don't have room for a grand/baby grand, but if you are headed that way either Steinway or Yamaha and the discusson ends there as far as I am concerned.

Uprights would go either Yamaha or Kawai. We bought a used Kawai ~25 years ago from a dealer who warranted it for a period. Daughters have countless hours on it as well as my wife, still sounds good to my ear. Has been moved from house to house twice. Sounded awful both times until it adjusted to the new environment and was tuned a couple of times. Due for another tuning soon.

I would not be so quick to dismiss the keyboard. The Yamaha Clavinova has an action so similar to a piano, my SIL who has a degree in Piano Performance and plays professionally can hardly tell the difference between it and the Steinway grand sitting in her music room. If organ is part of the deal the action is not going to matter nearly as much anyway. As others mentioned, much easier to move, stays in tune, flexible playing, etc...

Whatever you do enjoy the music while it lasts. My daughters still play, but rarely at home now. Miss it.

Good Luck,

Kirk
 
K. Peters, come to SE Mi. and I will give you a piano. A good looking smaller upright. If interested I can give you more details.
 
If you do go for a electric, Look at Kurtzwell, i love mine, its fairly light, and is easy to do effects and different instruments on, i also have a Steinway Upright, its a little finicky to tune, but sounds wonderful.
 
My sister plays piano professionally, our parents bought her a Yamaha mid grand 40 years ago. Parents are gone, but she still has that piano. I think it has been rebuilt a couple of times. The hammers wear down over time.
 
My belief is that if you can fix a tractor you can also learn to work on a piano without too much trouble. I have been involved in a few piano projects over the years and recently got a quite decent piano for $50 off craigslist. It was only 2 miles away so I drove the tractor over to pick it up and set it in a wagon. Basically as long as the soundboard is not cracked or warped most other problems can be fixed, although some are more of a nuisance than others. Sticky keys and loose hammers are easy at-home fixes, as are many pedal problems. Tuning is easy to do with a strobe tuner and hard otherwise unless you are a 'natural' at it which I am definitely not. A real electric piano might also be a good idea, but to get a good one will cost a bit.
Zach
 
One reason they don't like the keyboard is they don't have 88 keys. Some other reasons were how the keys are played (soft vs.hard) and how long the key is held down. Now maybe I should ask, is there a difference between a digital piano and a keyboard? I don't know. Next was the lack of foot pedals but it sounds like some keyboards/digital pianos have tried overcome that.
 
Church has both available but in the long run for church services they would prefer the organ being played. She was told if she was more comfortable playing the piano she could just to get her started and used to playing for the congregation. I'm not sure if she is going play other venues, I do know this area is in need of organist for church services not just our church.
 
I'm not completely sure but I think a digital piano better represents a piano. Keyboards aren't designed to represent a piano, just produce a variety of sounds using a keyboard. For example, ours (Yamaha Clavinova)has 88 keys that are weighted (to provide the same feel) and a sustain pedal, but less options for sounds. Better versions will have all three pedals. On a Roland and Yamaha, I think the keys are built the same way in their digital and traditional, so that it feels the same or at least real similar. I'm in the military so I have not been able to justify a full size piano, but have been very pleased with our digital one. Also, where I bought mine they will take your digital on full price trade in towards a full size if you ever change your mind.
 
Steinway or Yamaha baby grand because they have the best percussion and do not change octave when you press and hold a key. If you don't have room for one of those then look for a used Sohmer. Go to a piano store and press and hold down the key and see if you can notice the octave change over time. Compare a low quality one with a Steinway, Yamaha, or Sohmer. You won't want to waste your money on a low quality unit.
 
You can spend a FORTUNE on a piano; or you can spend much less. There are many used pianos out there and some used organs, some of which could be obtained for hauling them away.

I have played the piano and organ since 1960. I don"t claim to be super at playing either one, but I do enjoy amusing myself with them. When I am playing, I am somewhere else, a place that is mine only. I have spent many, many hours that way doing something I love to do. On the other hand, I do NOT enjoy performing at all.

Your post says your daughter is 13, which probably means she is in the 7th or 8th grade. It was about that age that I made most of my musical progress: I got able to play almost anything my teacher wanted me to. But it took hours and hours of dedicated practice for me to perfect difficult works. And I didn"t enjoy performing then either.

But then came High School. There were more things to do, including lots more homework and lots more socializing, as well as a bus ride to and from school. I also had lots of chores on the farm all the time. My time at the piano suffered, and my music progressed much more slowly. I also discovered rock and popular music, which was a whole lot easier to play, and started playing music with some of my friends.

And then came my driver"s license when I was 16. I did not continue lessons after I could drive, since I felt I was too busy, had not progressed much in a couple of years, and decided I HATED performing in public. I was never going to be a concert pianist and the few times I played at church were extremely stressful for me, even though people said I did a good job.

The piano I started with, and still have is a very old Kimball upright grand. My grandfather bought it in the 1920"s after plunking on lots of pianos in used piano stores in the nearby town. He liked the sound and action of the Kimball the best of the ones he could afford, and after selling his wheat crop, brought the Kimball home. Unfortunately none of his children learned to play it, and my Mom, the only girl in the family ended up with it. My parents realized I had some musical talent and gave me lessons, even when they were pretty poor. That was a great gift!

My old piano is not beautiful as a piece of furniture, as it has been moved many times and is well over 100 years old. It probably has a fair market value of $100, but it is one of my prized possessions and is one of the LAST things I would ever give up. It is very heavy and is a real pain to move. The next time I have to move it more than a few feet, I think I will employ a piano moving company. But that old piano is one of my greatest sources of personal joy.

Over the years, I have been given several older organs. The largest and best one was my piano teacher"s practice organ. She was also our church"s organist for more than 50 years. When she died, her daughter tried to sell the late 70"s organ, but found that no one wanted to give her anything for it. So she gave it to me. I don"t claim to be a very good organist, but I have had some fun with it and the other smaller spinet organs I have been given. At this point, I should probably become and organ donor, at least according to my wife.

Playing the piano and the organ are related, but really not the same. Playing the organ correctly involves using the low tone pedals, which is a skill set that I certainly have not mastered. I know people who are really good at playing the organ, but they are few and far between. It, like so many things, takes lots and lots of practice.

Getting back to your question about what kind of piano to get, I would suggest taking your daughter along to look at some used pianos and have her try playing them. In my experience, some pianos (and organs) are much easier to play and sound much better than others. I do not care for the actions of lots of spinet pianos I have tried. Most, but not all of the grand pianos I have played had nice actions and have wonderful sound. But my favorite piano is the old, familiar upright grand that I have had most of my life.

Other things I would consider are the space you have to put the piano in and how much you want to spend. A piano should be in a spot where the temperature and humidity are quite constant. If it is an upright model, it should be on an inside wall. A grand piano, of the various sizes takes lots of room, as there should be space all around it, and you should be able to open the top for good sound. Pianos can be as cheap as free to as expensive as you could imagine. There are many pretty good used pianos that look nice, play well and sound good for $1000 or less. There are also wonderful new pianos available, but they cost much more. Perfectly good older organs are often free or almost free, if you ask around. Lots of churches no longer are using their older electronic organs.

And then there are the various keyboards. I would not suggest a cheap one for a couple of hundred dollars. My experience is that they don"t feel right and while they are fun, they really are not that good for practicing on. Some schools have had electrified pianos that had decent actions and were OK for practice pianos. Occasionally they are for sale fairly inexpensively. I like the feel and sound of the church"s Clavinova, but I think it cost about $8k 10 or 12 years ago.

If my middle school aged child was asked to play for church (and I didn"t already have a piano), I would try to find a somewhat similar instrument to what the church has for her to practice on, but not something that I had to spend a lot of money on. After some time, she will decide if she enjoys playing in public. And she might even get paid for playing. On the other hand, after a couple of years, she may not want to do it anymore, because she things she is too busy with other things in her life to do the necessary practice, or because she, like me, really does not enjoy performing.

I am glad to read that your daughter is learning to play the piano. That is a gift from you to her that she may enjoy the rest of her life. Making music is truly one of my greatest joys! Good luck.
 
After reading all the other comments I have decided to give my advice. First of all, a piano is nice but your daughter is 13 and not too sure of where she will be later in life. A piano is a big heavy thing to lug around to college and to other places she may want to go. Several years ago I bought a good keyboard with all 88 keys and foot pedals and also you could set the pressure on the keys to match any other piano. The little girl I bought it for went on the learn the organ from that. I paid about 800$ for it brand new on a closeout sale. It is my humble opinion that buying her a very good (very good)keyboard(electric piano) would be the best way to go. Also, they don"t need the care a piano does and never needs a $200 tuning. Also you can take it anywhere for a treat at a family get together or other places. MY $2 worth(Inflation ya know)
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I did not read any responses that said this or that brand is bad, so I gather it boils down to how the piano was cared for and how much use it has seen. Currently she is using an old Brinkerhoff player/piano and she has done very well with it, just time get something she can keep the rest of her life. I here what the guys are saying about her losing interest, but playing piano is one of the few things we never have to nag her to do, she just does it. Personally I would go for the digital piano for reasons already suggested, but she needs to be in on the decision too and says she wants a real piano, so I guess we will look at both kinds.
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I did not read any responses that said this or that brand is bad, so I gather it boils down to how the piano was cared for and how much use it has seen. Currently she is using an old Brinkerhoff player/piano and she has done very well with it, just time get something she can keep the rest of her life. I hear what the guys are saying about her losing interest, but playing piano is one of the few things we never have to nag her to do, she just does it. Personally I would go for the digital piano for reasons already suggested, but she needs to be in on the decision too and says she wants a real piano, so I guess we will look at both kinds.
 
I second that. Steinway 1st choice if you can find an affordable one. Yamaha 2nd choice, They're less expensive but well respected by many Steinway pianists.
 
I have to completely disagree with you. As a piano major who has played and performed on many pianos, you don't just start moving this piece and pulling on that part to make it sound better. What about the feel, touch, tone, rebound? A grand piano has over 10,000 parts and I make sure I have a trained and certified tech work on mine. I could sell my piano and purchase several restored ih V8 tractors And am also mechanical and understand how things work but will never attempt any repair other than fix a squeaking pedal. I would compare this to your 300. You fixed it and it works, but I would not want to perform a concerto on it because it makes a terrible noise. If you had taken it to the dealer it would be right. I know I am not comparing apples to apples, and I repair my tractors myself as well, but please unless you are certified to be working on pianos please don't!
 
Had to go back and find this since I was gone most of the day yesterday.

Given your most recent update, if your daughter really enjoys it and stays at it you/she will eventually have several piano/keyboard variants and be setting aside a "Music Room" somewhere. It is a good idea to let her in on the process, she is old enough to have valid opinions. Unless you know what you are hearing/playing it is probably a good idea to drag her teacher along to play whatever you decide on before the final purchase. Kind of like asking your favorite mechanic look at a used car.

As I said previously, enjoy the music while she is home. All those music lessons are an investment that lasts a lifetime.

Kirk
 
What will the Church pay ?
Church's try to get teenagers to play because
they are too CHEAP to pay an experianced player !
 

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