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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

#37 international baler ( knotter bill hook )

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Author  [Modern View]

12-21-2012 12:52:42

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The knotter/ bill hook assembly that gives us problems seems to be a wee bit behind the other , which works well . I think it needs to be rotated a little further . I have it torn apart but there doesn"t seem to be an adjustment for that. The knott comes loose in about 1 in every 30-50 bales. It"s been an on going thing. Have played with the tension but that doesn"t make a difference.

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pete 23

12-21-2012 19:02:11

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
Another thing to check while running and feeding material,is to stop feeding, manually trip it and then shut machine off and examine the knot . It should be gripped fully in bill and the twine should be cut off cleanly. If that twine is not cut completely and cleanly the knot will pull apart either part way or all the way when the incoming material push's the bale which in turn pulls the knot off the bill. This is the number one reason for poor knotter performance on an IH baler with the McCormick knotter which that baler has. Now if it happens to have the all twine knotter,(which is still a McCormick style) a cam operates on the back side of head which moves the knife over to cut the twine after knot is formed.The bale still pulls knot off bill hook. The Deering style knotter cut both twines, and strip knot off hook but that is a whole different knotter. Far as hook being later or earlier than other, the only thing that controls that is wear on driven side of gear that drives bill. Disk timing is adjustable on these due to tapered shaft on disk drive gear. This in turn affects knife timing along with the washers behind the knife. Could go on forever as it is a multitude of adjustments to getting a knot.

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Mike in Mn.

12-21-2012 18:33:39

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
I'm not an expert but I can make my New Holland and Massey Ferguson tie, first it sound like it's making a knot just slipping apart, if it's slipping apart going out the chamber or not completed to start with?? One being slightly behind the other should not make any difference as long as it completes the knot. Read your owners manual very carefully, it should explain the adjustments. To tighten the knot you may have to grind the tongue of the bill hook slightly so it will close tighter and grip the twine tighter and pull the knot tighter, adjust the cover that holds the roller to hold the bill hook shut tighter.My New Holland missed one in 30 to 50 one summer and I just couldn't pin point the problem, so finally set the needles a little closer to the twine discs, it hasn't missed a bale since, so as a last resort don't rule that out, good luck!! And I will mention the twine has been awfull the last couple of years, I use 7000 and it will go from string to 1/4 inch rope, they won't tie either one, it has to be somewhere in the middle.

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12-21-2012 15:52:34

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
Not real familiar with your make or model and Don't mean to hijack your thread. I have a Fiat Agra or Hesson baler and an old timer I talked to told me that all small sq bale knotters are basicly the same. Don't know how true that statement is but was wondering what others who might be more familiar with diff makes of balers would say about this. BTW Hesson manual go into great detail on setting and ajusting knotters and also says that diff things like tractor speed, humidity of swath, size of swath or bale tension can also cause knot failures although this usually doesn't result in one miss in 30-50. Rocko.

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Ol' Gimpy

12-21-2012 15:18:48

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
You may also want to make sure knotter frame retaining bolt is tight,I"ve seen the frame loose on shaft.As the guys have said,good idea to clean trash from knotters once in a while as well.

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12-21-2012 13:55:00

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
Hi Piet, its about 30 years since I worked on one oft the #46 and 37 Knotters. My brother bought a #430 with an all twine knotter and all you have to do is clear chaff out of it once and a while and replace/sharpen twine once in while.
Back to your bill hook, IIRC, bill hook is keyed to a gear and is not adjustable. I suppose gear can be worn or gap between large drive gear can get out of spec. As another person pointed out check the bill hook cam. I had one many years ago that would bind in the slot in the knotter frame and had to do some filing to keep it from binding.


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Just Another Old Geezer

12-21-2012 13:32:41

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 Re: #37 international baler ( knotter bill hook ) in reply to piet, 12-21-2012 12:52:42  
Have you check the cam that holds the bill hook closed?? on my 430, when knots start to slip, I ahve to turn up the knotter and take the cam off and clean out the accumulated trash keeping it open.

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