Author	[Modern View]
Ultradog MN 12-12-2012 07:31:47 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	All you 'Rich' farmers are gonna take a hit - if/when you die. It is inevitable that when a cash hungry government can no longer confiscate enough money from income they will begin to tax assets. Fasten your seat belts boys and girls. We're going for a ride. Edit, Please behave yourselves. It would be nice to have conversations about important things like this here without the flaming, hyperbole and vulgarity. Article This post was edited by Ultradog MN at 07:33:59 12/12/12. [Reply]   [No Email]
John A. 12-12-2012 21:13:24 64.128.16.238 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Guys, What will happen is Estate Planning WILL become a bigger part of Farmers/Ranchers/Agri-Biz owners end game using what avenues that are left to help move ownership over to the heirs with the least incumbents as possible. Life Insurance will indeed play a Big Part to get that property into the appropriate hands and NOT the Government! Advanced transfer of ownership, Prior to death, So Mom & Dad technecly Do not Own "anything" at death! There are ways! Later, John A. [Reply]  [No Email]
David G 12-12-2012 18:19:18 216.53.142.3 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   The inheritance taxes where put in place by the founding fathers to level the playing field each generation. They were tired of kings passing down all the wealth. Put them at a reasonable level and 50% tax above that. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bret4207 12-13-2012 04:18:55 64.19.90.196 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to David G, 12-12-2012 18:19:18   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Would you kindly refer me to the inheritance tax put in place by the Founders please? The only Federal taxes put in place by the Founders I'm aware were import duties and tariffs. Later the first US State taxes I'm aware of were placed on alcohol. This resulted in actions such as Shays Rebellion. The Inheritance or Estate Tax as we know it did not appear until 1916, along with the rest of Wilsons Income Tax scheme. I'm not sure where you got the idea the Founders instituted the Estate Tax. [Reply]  [No Email]
IndianaRed 12-12-2012 20:29:22 75.46.85.141 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to David G, 12-12-2012 18:19:18   So it was taxed when it was earned. It was taxed when it was invested. It was taxed when it purchased property. It was taxed when a portion was spent. And you want half of what someone earned and saved to go to someone else. Sounds kind of greedy to me. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN 12-12-2012 18:29:30 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to David G, 12-12-2012 18:19:18   I might join you on the founding fathers stuff if you'll meet me in the middle. Let's have the poll taxes they had then and maybe pre suffrage too? If you want half of history you have to take the whole. [Reply]  [No Email]
David G 12-12-2012 18:46:19 216.53.142.3 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 18:29:30   Are you saying poor people and women should not be allowed to vote? [Reply]  [No Email]
JD Seller 12-12-2012 19:28:59 208.126.196.144 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to David G, 12-12-2012 18:46:19   I would say if you pay no Federal taxes then you should not get to vote in a Fedaral election. IF you pay state tax then you get to vote at the state level. Most do pay sales state sales tax. All those that pay taxes should get to vote. What is going to sink us is the people that pay nothing and receive a lot of government hand outs. They will keep voting for those that play Santa Claus to them. This is without any regard to whether we have the money or not. [Reply]  [No Email]
GordoSD 12-13-2012 06:40:32 216.106.242.132 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to JD Seller, 12-12-2012 19:28:59   The people in Boston had a big demonstration because of "taxation without representation". So I agree. I din't think there should be "representation without taxation". In other words if you don't pay federal income tax you don't vote in federal elections. [Reply]  [No Email]
thurlow 12-12-2012 19:24:30 74.177.51.237 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to David G, 12-12-2012 18:46:19   I'll say it; a voter should have some stake in the country; should meet at least one qualification. 1. own a business or earn wages 2. own property 3........... [Reply]  [No Email]
steve_in_mo 12-12-2012 16:35:44 205.240.41.69 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Proper estate planning will make the estate tax rate a non-factor for those who are willing to give up their stubbornness and seek out an expert. These alarmist articles are mostly a fund-raising ploy for publications like the one you linked. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN 12-12-2012 18:05:09 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to steve_in_mo, 12-12-2012 16:35:44   Alarmist? Not every large land property owner is reading this board to become enlightened as we are. Some of them are gonna cross that line and their heirs will pay 50% instead of 35%. The net result will be increased revenue to an already rapacious central government. Wanna bet on that? The clever members here, capitalists at heart as we all are when it comes to taxes, discussed ways to avoid the tax. Good thread. But what is property anyway? Is it land? Is it a farm? Is it a business that you built? I fear this is another step toward taxing assets beyond just income. But that's just me. Thanks to all who replied and it didn't get out of hand. Thanks to Kim and Chris too for letting it go so long. We need to discus this stuff. [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 12-12-2012 18:42:03 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 18:05:09   I don't know your tax laws... but here there would be any multitude of ways to avoid such tax if you plan far enough ahead. A simple joint tenancy would be sufficient... Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
Rick Kr 12-12-2012 15:32:03 198.105.227.109 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   I think the scientists may actually find a cure for death before our government can figure out how to control taxes. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
JRSutton 12-12-2012 14:42:09 75.130.109.233 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Those kinds of decisions will be up to China. Our government now tells us China is going to surpass us as the world's financial super power by 2030. Think about how much we already owe them - add on what we're going to owe them once we try to pay for things like obamacare - They will soon be dictating to us how to pay off our debts to their liking. [Reply]  [No Email]
Wile E 12-12-2012 13:23:48 66.188.56.202 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   The federal government is so broke that the 3 main entitlements, SSI, Medicare and Medicaid eat up all of the Taxes taken in by the feds, and then some. So then there is the military to pay for and all that fricken foreign aid and on and on it goes. And the debt climbs up and up. It WILL be the most massive train wreck imaginable when the dollar collapses and the money is worth a fraction of what it was the year before. The end of the USA wont come by a war or a bio-terror attack. It will come through laziness and greed of the masses. And the politicians fostered all of it. The real unemployment rate is 30%, cause welfare, food stamps, unemployment bennies support this 30%. The USA is about to become a 2nd rate nation in a few years. Socialism and free market economics dont mix together well. [Reply]  [No Email]
uncle henry 12-12-2012 11:33:12 67.223.201.52 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   death and taxes are both a guarantee [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 12-12-2012 11:47:15 162.58.82.136 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to uncle henry, 12-12-2012 11:33:12   i kind of think of it differently,deaths guaranteed,but taxes depend entirely on how many loopholes you qualify for! LOL more than a few folks who pay none,and still get a refund. [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 12-12-2012 10:36:30 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Reality is... someone has to pay. You can't go on printing money like there's no tomorrow and not expect that it has to be paid back at some point. The day of reckoning has arrived.... Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
dhermesc 12-12-2012 12:58:58 24.248.193.103 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to RodInNS, 12-12-2012 10:36:30   The Fed doesn't even bother printing that much money anymore, it's created with a few strokes on a keyboard. [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 12-12-2012 18:39:43 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to dhermesc, 12-12-2012 12:58:58   Same difference... Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
Wile E 12-12-2012 13:25:36 66.188.56.202 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to dhermesc, 12-12-2012 12:58:58   To reduce the debt the gubbermint really just has to move the decimal point back 1 place to make it 90% less. Of course everyone gets a 90% reduction in purchasing power of their money. [Reply]  [No Email]
dhermesc 12-12-2012 14:04:46 24.248.193.103 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Wile E, 12-12-2012 13:25:36   That is pretty much what the US is doing. Currently 90% of the debt run up by the federal government is being bought by the Federal Reserve with money they "created". 5 years ago the Fed might ocassionally by T-Bills, now the government depends on them doing it. [Reply]  [No Email]
Traditional Farmer 12-12-2012 10:22:26 67.233.70.253 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Thats what Socialism is all about the new system were heading into,some are in denial but will realize it soon enough.Take from the working folks and give it to the lazy ones that sit around.Always fails but its a b*tch in the meantime for those working.These days a good estate/trust lawyer is worth their weight in at least Silver probably not Gold(LOL)a good one can get you thru the inhertiance maze in one piece. Also another reason land ain't the investment it used to be less visible assets with no deeds or titles are the way to go these days. [Reply]  [No Email]
Earl Gray 12-12-2012 10:56:00 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Traditional Farmer, 12-12-2012 10:22:26   Don't forget the cost of paranoia, starting wars to look for weapons of mas destruction that weren't there, going into Afghanistan after the Russians left with their tail between their legs! What made W think we could do any better? The cost of that war would of solved all our health car problems and then some. If we had a decent health care system like DEVELLOPED countries more people would retire and that would solve our unemployment problem. And the cost of the so-called border protection! When you get 100 mile or less from the Canadian border there are customs and immigration vehicles all over, that isn't cheap, and what for? [Reply]  [No Email]
Diydave 12-12-2012 17:33:00 96.244.155.142 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 10:56:00   Developed countries, like Greece, Italy, France, and England? Give us a big old gapped tooth English smile, as the economy plummets like the titanic! [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 12-12-2012 12:28:34 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 10:56:00   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see LOL, I've live in Germany and have seen thier health care system first hand. Better off Germans have private health insurance so they can get better care than the smuck on the street! Look at Englands system. A former member of parlament who worked hard to get thier health care system in place placed themselves on the waiting list to be treated for an eye problem. When that person went blindin one eye decided waiting on the system wasn't smart and paid for treatments after that. The border issue is as you say wasteful at best. But you cannot blame the president for bad intel. Only thing the POTUS can do with something like that is fire the head of the angency involved.......kinda like the head of the justice department over the gun walking thing. He's the boss. He's responsible for what his agency messes up, and he should get canned just as the former president should have canned the head of the CIA. I know I'm darn sure going to talk to a lawyer soon about this inheritance stuff. May all be over nothing but sometimes it pays to be careful. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
Earl Gray 12-12-2012 12:48:00 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to oldtanker, 12-12-2012 12:28:34   I think you have found some isolated cases, I could produce some like that in the states too! I know many Canadians ant they all are very happy with their health care system. If Germany is so bad why is their life expectancy 2 years longer than ours, for half the cost? We are getting $crewed by big insurance companies and the medical profession! [Reply]  [No Email]
Bret4207 12-13-2012 04:22:31 64.19.90.196 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 12:48:00   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see You want a system like Britaiin has where they starve and dehydrate people to death if they feel it's not worth the cost of keeping them alive? Check the recent headlines on "NHS road to death". [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 12-12-2012 16:23:29 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 12:48:00   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Nope that's the norm. You can research it and look at all sides of if you wish to. I lived over there for a total of 9 years and knew a lot of Germans. Most of them I knew were not very happy with the governement health care system and carried additional insurance so they would get better care. The Germans are a good deal more active than most Americans. Gas is ver expensive so things like four wheelers and jet skis are for the rich only. But they have Volks Marches almost every weekend some place in Germany plus sport "platz" (mostly soccer fields) all over the place. Germans are not afraid of physical activity. Wait till we get "national health care and everyone working is paying 50%, yes 50% of the money they make in taxes (thats not only going to be income taxes but national sales tax too...that way everyone pays). That free health care isn't free. Us folks that earn money will pay for it though our noses. Most health insurance companies are operating on less than a 10% profit margin. Only one or 2 are over that 10% mark. The for profit health care providers are the real bandits here. And they are avoiding taxes by expanding or building new facilities all over the place that are really not needed. Maybe spending a little time doing some research instead of spouting party rhetoric would do you some good. Now back to the subject at hand.....what do you have to add about the death taxes? Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
Dave in GA 12-12-2012 18:43:58 98.92.58.50 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to oldtanker, 12-12-2012 16:23:29   If Germans live longer than us, it"s because they drink REAL beer. Americans are hooked on weak tasting lite beers. [Reply]  [No Email]
Earl Gray 12-12-2012 18:08:26 68.235.89.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to oldtanker, 12-12-2012 16:23:29   Set up a trust! [Reply]  [No Email]
dhermesc 12-12-2012 13:04:27 24.248.193.103 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 12:48:00   Ever compare the average weight of an American and the average weight of a German? Fat people have more health problems. The fact that the main disease of the poor in the America is obesity should give you a clue. Couple that with 30 million illegal Mexicans that like to shoot our fellow citizens and I'm surprised there is only two years difference. [Reply]  [No Email]
cannonball 12-13-2012 04:42:29 75.88.12.210 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to dhermesc, 12-12-2012 13:04:27   A U. S. Navy destroyer stops four Mexicans in a row boat rowing towards California. The Captain gets on the loud-haler and shouts, "Ahoy, small craft. Where are you headed?" One of the Mexicans puts down his oar, stands up, and shouts, "We are invading the United States of America! to reclaim the territory taken by the USA during the 1800's." The entire crew of the destroyer doubled-over in laughter. When the Captain is finally able to catch his breath, he gets back on the loud-haler and asks, "Just the four of you?" The same Mexican stands up again and shouts, "No, we're the last four. The rest are already there!" [Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN 12-12-2012 11:15:18 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Earl Gray, 12-12-2012 10:56:00   I really don't know what the wars and W have to do with this conversation unless it's just to disemble. Even if we still had all the money we've spent on the wars and military in the last ten years we still would have serious budget problems. This thread is about new ways the government is trying to get more money out of the people and ways people here can try to protect their assets. It isn't about laying blame on this party or that president as there is plenty of blame for all parties to take their share of it. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike (WA) 12-12-2012 10:33:45 69.10.199.107 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Traditional Farmer, 12-12-2012 10:22:26   You got that last part right- your precious metals will silently pass to your heirs without any mention in probate or anywhere else. They can even back their cars into the garage to make the transfer, if nosy neighbors are a problem! LOL [Reply]  [No Email]
Traditional Farmer 12-12-2012 10:38:42 67.233.70.253 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Mike (WA), 12-12-2012 10:33:45   They better a backhoe and metal detector(LOL)I'm gonna make 'um earn it. [Reply]  [No Email]
ss55 12-12-2012 10:10:45 173.31.19.80 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Most farming families get hit by estate taxes when grampa refuses to deal with it and he leaves it to the kids figure things out after he dies. Then it's too late to do anything about it. Estate planning, a realistic plan for transfer of ownership in stages and some tax planning will still still elliminate most if not all inheritance taxes for even large farms and businesses. Sorry, but the article is mostly just political fear mongering. [Reply]  [No Email]
8Nr--WI 12-12-2012 10:34:00 75.9.168.167 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to ss55, 12-12-2012 10:10:45   Very True----"Most farming families get hit by estate taxes when grampa refuses to deal with it and he leaves it to the kids figure things out after he dies. Then it's too late to do anything about it." Your statement just described the transferance plan in place for most folks....the tax collector loves it...death and taxes is a must have conversation that seldom takes place within the family circle... Tim [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike (WA) 12-12-2012 10:28:30 69.10.199.107 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to ss55, 12-12-2012 10:10:45   The article was factual, and maybe the purpose was some "fear mongering", to get folks to start doing some rational estate planning. We've gotten lax over the past 10 years or so, because the exemption was high enough so that most didn't have to worry about it. But with exemption dropping back to one million after the first of the year (and I think it will, regardless of whether the fiscal cliff is avoided- its just too tempting to the politicians in their never-ending quest for $$$), those who will be affected really need to plan- NOW! And somebody else hit upon a problem in the estate planning area- every time someone comes up with an innovative strategy, Congress closes the "loophole", and its back to the ole drawing board. That's why malpractice insurance is much higher for a lawyer with an estate planning practice- Lets see: Lots of money at risk, constantly changing laws, and if you screw up, your former client probably has a deep pocket to sue you. What could possibly go wrong? LOL [Reply]  [No Email]
fergienewbee 12-12-2012 10:02:16 99.109.125.224 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   It's not just the "death" tax. Property taxes are often based on what land sells for in the area. To my way of thinking, my land is only worth 3,000, 8,000, 20,000 per acre, or what ever the number is, if I sell it. How can an unimproved piece of land be worth the same as land producing crops? That's not the way they see it. If someone overpays for land, why does that affect my land value? But I agree, a lot of farmers are land rich and dollar poor. Capital gains at the time of sale makes more sense to me. Larry [Reply]  [No Email]
Bill in IL 12-12-2012 09:47:04 132.3.49.68 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   How do you properly prepare for this when the rules keep changing? So every time it changes cause they can't stick to a long term plan you have to waste time and money to match their plan. [Reply]  [No Email]
Walt Davies 12-12-2012 09:42:31 70.199.226.130 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Mines in a trust so poof me. Walt [Reply]  [No Email]
Fixerupper 12-12-2012 09:23:17 100.42.82.30 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   This is not new news at all. Every time the higher exemption expires it goes back to $1,000,000. What sticks in my craw is this farm land that is worth the mega-millions just because of the rise in farm land value is a TOOL the family farmer uses to make a living. It's merely a TOOL as long as the heirs keep it and farm it for a living. It is not a multi-million dollar check handed to the heirs. It's a TOOL the owners have to pay property tax on and it's a TOOL the owners have to spend money on to maintain. It is not CASH!!! Why should we pay 55% tax on the TOOL the family is using to make a living? Why should we be forced to sell some of our income earning TOOL to pay the 55% the GVT thinks we owe because we inherited a means of living that we will continue to use as a means of living? Why should should we spend some of our income on tax attornies to slap uncle sam's hand away from our pockets like protecting ourselves from a pick pocket looking for an opportunity. Most of our fathers and forefathers had to scrape like crazy just to make the payments on their newly purchased land. By the time it was paid for they didn't have enough time in their lives to put away much for savings so this large estate they leave, that has increased in value many times is land only, not cash. Why should we have to form LLC's and trusts to protect ourselves from our government's need to fund it's lavish ways? Do you know what it feels like to watch someone own and farm land your dad worked his hands to the bone to pay for? Land that was lost in order to pay the 55% estate tax? My sis and I haven't had to go through that YET but it's looming on the horizon. If the land heirs are greedy and just want to cash in on their newely inherited wealth that they did nothing to earn or help to earn then let them pay the 55%. Jim [Reply]  [No Email]
TMo 12-12-2012 09:17:51 98.191.197.172 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Every one has a different opinion on this topic which is good. The fact of the matter is regardless if you have a revocable trust or irrevocable trust set up, some form of taxes whether it be estate, inheritance, income, or gift tax will be payable to the IRS. Don't forget that some form of State Taxes will apply also, depending on what your individual State Tax Code is or will be in 2013. Unfortunately you have people such as Pitch who make idiotic, immature statements that are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Just have to over look it as stupidity. [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY 12-12-2012 09:13:30 24.29.79.122 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   I hate politics, not very fond of most politicians and elected officials, try like heck to remain optimistic and don't really like discussing it here but this does irk me. Keeping that last couple of words in mind, this article and what they propose is irrational. You get to certain age, face a situation like this where you are now billed for 50% of the appraised value of an estate that meets the criteria. You don't have it, so now what, if you are an heir, you now have a mortgage if you want the estate, and basically the government sells it to you for .50 cents on the dollar of what its worth ? Am I correct, is that the short of it ? So one needs to plan ahead and make other purchase arrangements, and avoid being an heir, so if a person wants to "bequeath" their estate, officially and legally before they pass away, where does that leave an heir ? Oh, there has to be a gift tax, that's now income because of its value, oh how could I forget LOL ? So it would appear to a person like myself, not too educated on tax law that you need to sell your estate to your formerly intended heir, prior to your untimely death so that they do not have to pay this tax, leaves the heir with a mortage payment, unless the sum is discounted, can you sell it for a dollar ? Our elected government just cannot manage money, tax the heck out of everyone, darned state gets over $800 per month for just the land here, and about half that for the house and surrounding land, I hate thinking about it. So to own anything like it, you not only have to finance what you don't have, prices of land being so darned high by sellers, you end up with a double mortage payment, and only will ever pay half of it off if you get that far, because the state or county, land tax never stops, No one gets any break ever, you die, want to pass on what you worked hard to only pay half for, so say a sibling does not have that a bank mortgage, thats not allowed, because you are now assessed 50% of its current value, so the heir has to buy it prior to, is their a loophole, sell it for a $1 ? That would satisfy my radical thoughts, but you know they have that loophole covered somehow, which would then influence my thoughts of being overly radical and state that the actual collecting or seizing of the estate due to the above, would be real interesting if a person stood their ground and said, "from my cold dead hands". These politicians cannot manage the affairs of the people, cannot manage the use of taxpayer money, do not accomplish what the people want or really need, they're also corrupt, I'm sorry, you're all fired !!!!! [Reply]  [No Email]
PJH 12-12-2012 11:27:37 50.40.254.45 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Billy NY, 12-12-2012 09:13:30   "can you sell it for a dollar? Billy - I ain't no tax expert, but my attorney advised us to get a certified appraisal of our farm when we turned the ownership over to the kids. It appeared that you could make your own value of the property, but the attorney advised against it. In the future, it could come back and bite you without the appraisal. We kept a lifetime dowry on the property. Keep in mind that our place is not worth as much as these other guys' places. A local attorney is needed - too important to guess at. . . [Reply]  [No Email]
8N'r--WI 12-12-2012 09:44:43 75.9.168.167 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Billy NY, 12-12-2012 09:13:30   Billy---one method of planning ahead is to create an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust (ILIT) funded with a life insurance policy for the amount of the potential Estate Tax due at death. If the tax due is $1,000,000 the land owners heirs would have tax free cash from the life policy to pay the tax, in essence,preserving the farm asset....in the family. Of course, the deceased farm owner would need to have the foresight to buy the life policy before death, be in good enough health to get the policy, and have the money to be able to pay the premium on the policy. The owner could also sell the farm before he dies, and spend all the money before the kids or the gov. get what's left over after the initial tax hit. Tim [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY 12-12-2012 10:18:36 24.29.79.122 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to 8N'r--WI, 12-12-2012 09:44:43   This nonsense always gets me "wrinkled" LOL !! But cooler heads prevail, estate planning, well in advance is what needs to be done, like mentioned below. Now, one can patriotically support our country, serve in the armed forces, be an upstanding citizen, but respectively disagree with what politicians do or propose, that be me, I just do not like how they handle and or manage taxpayer money. [Reply]  [No Email]
MSD 12-12-2012 08:43:36 67.4.60.56 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Looks like one of those "news and entertainment" magazines that are at the check out aisles. The old saying is "Cover your #SS" or in this case assets. It's called "estate planning". [Reply]  [No Email]
John T 12-12-2012 08:30:24 216.249.82.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Pretty simple actually, if the GOVERNMENT (NOTE I'm saying Government here NOT Republican or Democrat, no fighting please) doesnt get enough of your money when you were living and you accumulated some to pass to your family THEY NOW WANT TO GET MORE WHEN YOU DIE. Its called "redistrbution of wealth" take from the producers and workers who worked and accumulated money and give to those with less money (regardless of reason or fault) and who decides THE GOVERNMENT...... Were over 16 trillion in debt (around 5.5 trillion added last 4 years),,,,,borrowing now like 46 cents for every dollar spent,,,,,,,,whats the solution???? NOT to pay down the debt BUT TO BORROW EVEN MORE AND SPEND MORE and take more of the peoples money,,,,,, now that makes sense dont it lol lol Sounds sorta like the current GOVERNMENT subscribes to the Karl Mark socialistic theory.....To each according to their needs from each according to their ability (or something like that)............... Oh well, God Bless yall John T [Reply]  [No Email]
TMo 12-12-2012 09:25:32 98.191.197.172 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to John T, 12-12-2012 08:30:24   Good point! Use whatever Ideology you want. My opinion is that the gov't wants to form a classless, stateless, anti-capitalist, equal society so that the gov't controls everything. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NEIL 12-12-2012 15:08:02 76.202.214.164 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to TMo, 12-12-2012 09:25:32   THAT is EXACTLY the plan TM0! [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 12-12-2012 08:47:06 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to John T, 12-12-2012 08:30:24   Finding out the hard way that we can't have European style socialism without the European style taxes and restrictions aren't we? [Reply]  [No Email]
MFPoor 12-12-2012 09:11:29 72.4.0.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to rrlund, 12-12-2012 08:47:06   And that's what really irks me. Seems a large portion of todays Americans emulate Europeans way of doing things. Take a look around folks. They're in worse shape than we are. Why the rush to be more like them? [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 12-12-2012 09:30:47 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to MFPoor, 12-12-2012 09:11:29   In addition to the taxes,I think even the supporters who THINK we should emulate them would squeel like little pigs if they had to give up the freedom we have here vs the regulation there. We had three Swedes here for a week hunting in October. 25% sales tax,no pickup trucks at all. You can have up to six rifles,but no hand guns,no bow hunting,no snowmobiles,even though they're as far north as Alaska. Now they say no oil imports by 2020,and keep in mind they produce none of their own. And that's just Sweden. I don't know how some of the other socialist countries do it. [Reply]  [No Email]
wisbaker 12-12-2012 08:09:51 207.118.181.101 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   No one wants to talk about the real fiscal cliff. Graph a line that represents our GDP (the value of all goods and services we produce/consume) using statistical analysis continue the line projecting the GDP for the next 100 years. Do the same for government spending, notice the government spending line will eventually cross the GDP line meaning the government will be spending MORE than we as a people make. How is that going to work????? If you want to see a strong economy and JOBS pass a constitutional amendment limiting total government spending to no more than some percentage of our economy say 20% of our earnings. This means if government wants to spend another dollar they have to expand the economy and our earnings by 5 dollars. Also make the government responsible to adjust their budget to compensate for laws they pass, example Barry & the boys passed a law mandating increased fuel efficiency for motor vehicles, let's say it was a 15% improvement, the new budget needs to balance with a 15% reduction in gas taxes (we use less fuel, they get less money) AND compensate the states for lost sales tax revenue. Say the increased cost of fuel efficient emission compliant trucks will result in 1000 fewer being sold this year in Wisconsin, on a $20,000 dollar trade Wisconsin gets $1,000, so the feds stroke out a check to Wisconsin for $1,000,000 and to each other state AND an additional check to Michigan for 2.5 Million dollars to cover the payroll taxes they don't get for the truck plant that got closed due to weaker demand for expensive fuel efficient emission compliant trucks. [Reply]  [No Email]
Pitch 12-12-2012 07:59:37 66.66.18.32 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   OMG! The sky is falling! the sky is falling! we all are gonna die! You won"t get hurt if you properly prepare yourself. If all of you chicken littles would do something positive instead of crying nonstop we might make some progress [Reply]  [No Email]
big fred 12-12-2012 08:45:03 174.21.227.45 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Pitch, 12-12-2012 07:59:37   Pitch, I agree. A couple hours with a good lawyer could go a long way to help folks avoid estate taxes. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN 12-12-2012 08:42:13 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Pitch, 12-12-2012 07:59:37   Thanks Pitch. This is exactly the kind of sophmoric post that makes threads go poof. [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 12-12-2012 08:19:16 162.58.82.136 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Pitch, 12-12-2012 07:59:37   just curious,have you ever written a check to the IRS for a 1/4 million or so simply because your parent or grandparent had the audacity to die? if so you probably werent happy about it. No reason for this to happen IF you plan accordingly,but it is a very real concern to many folks.its simply one of those tax breaks set to expire at the end of the year. The one that makes me more upset than any is the so called marriage tax. i would like to know the logic behind that one. [Reply]  [No Email]
MFPoor 12-12-2012 08:31:47 72.4.0.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to jackinok, 12-12-2012 08:19:16   Marriage is taxing enough without adding a government penalty to the equation. The death tax will prove to be the fastest way yet to end the family farm concept. In time, folks will figure out loopholes and we'll be back to square one. Until then, just make certain you live forever. [Reply]  [No Email]
jackinok 12-12-2012 07:58:22 162.58.82.136 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-12-2012 07:31:47   Yep, but there have been ways around it that if gov doesnt meddle with could save most of them. One very simple way is a trust. Has to be setup before you die,of course. Basically the trust owns the farm,whoever the operator is is paid by the trust. Since it doesnt technicaly change ownership,theres no inheritance or so called death taxes. Sort of like when a employee dies. Thats how estates are passed down for generations. Theres no guarantee gov wont somehow mess with these setups in the future ,but at the current time its about the best way to guarantee a estate. I STRONGLY urge you to check into it, if your goal is to keep a farm or estate intact for your children. very simple to do ,and in my opinion its the best option currently. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Macfarlane 12-12-2012 10:15:16 142.166.222.110 Report to Moderator	Re: Death and Taxes. in reply to jackinok, 12-12-2012 07:58:22   Up here in Canada if its planned before it goes really well, there are lots of options depending on the size and type of operation. No taxes and no problems. Planned wrong if its isn't going to a direct relation, the gov gets 50% of the value. Need to talk to proper AG knowledgable lawyer and/or accountant. [Reply]  [No Email]