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[Modern View]
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| JDseller
10-10-2012 09:19:39
208.126.196.144
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The post below about the milk support payments reminded me of the site that lists all of the government payments that farmers receive.As I posted below I take ZERO direct government payments. I do not want to be owned by the government. So go to this link and look up the guys that you know that farm around you. See if they are on the government gravy train. Many around me have gotten a million plus in the last ten years. Many of them are not that large of farmers either. They just knew how to milk the program. The farmers getting these payments are no different than the welfare dead beats. If corn had been way below the cost of production the last few years it would be different but they still where getting payments while grain was at record prices. So look some of these up. See if your blood pressure goes up.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 12:31:02
24.225.2.143
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ted in NE-OH, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Jackinok,.... yes, we agree on a lot of the same things you mentioned.
My main point of contention is,.... this nation has passed the point of affording ANY gov programs, 16 TRILLION dollars ago.
You mention,.... "The very best thing that could happen to this country in my opinion is a good plain old famine.every farmer in the country should just say we are not going to farm next year and let the folks who are ACTUALLY on the dole starve. one of two things would happen,either they would starve and lighten the load ,or they would find someway of working to support themselves.".... I'm sorry, but I think you have overlooked a 3rd. option to farmers. And I don't think such a scenario will ever be possible, simply because some of the farmers here have ALREADY ADMITTED that "receiving" a dollar is more important to them, than "where" that dollar comes from.
That type of farmer only cares about the "bottom line", and would sell to those on the "PUBLIC DOLE" even after agreeing with their neighboring farmers not too.
But, I understand the points you're trying to make, and I agree with you to a large extent.
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| jackinok
10-11-2012 14:15:24
162.58.82.136
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-11-2012 12:31:02
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| yep, would have to stand together. but as far as being too far gone I simply dont know,putting the country to work would go a long ways to wiping out that debt over time i think.glad im old if it wouldnt because i dont want to see the result. Time to start thinking "WE the people " instead of "ME the people" again ,but the problem is the me is in the majority.
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| johndeerefan
10-11-2012 12:04:09
216.135.37.250
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to old, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| You hit the nail on the head jackinok. I have not seen very many programs in which the farmer himself benefits with money in his pocket. It is almost always a cost share except for the corn, wheat, soybean base payments. Only way a farmer benefits is if he was going to do something regardless and just happens to get the gov. to pay for part of it.
In my area, the big farmers gobble up the best programs and leaves us little farmers stranded without knowledge that some of these programs exists.
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| jackinok
10-11-2012 10:13:16
162.58.82.136
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| another thing to remember,is that included in that list is money recieved from programs that actually not only help the benificiary but often you neighbors also. lots of these programs are COST SHARE programs where the gov pays you a percentage of the total cost only. for instance,if i were to get into the say grassland reserve program ( yes there is one, much like the crp program except it pays to save native grasslands instead of converting to cropland) as i recall last i checked a few months ago it would pay up to 25% of the cost with a limit of $2500. that means I personally ,to get the MOST gov money possible,would be out of pocket $7500.i would have to actually SPEND $10,000 but the gov would send out a inspector,he would assess percentage of the work i did or had done was eligible and only that percentage would be reimbersed,on a 25% basis. NOT a money MAKING deal in ANYONES way of thinking. BUT under this program and others,lets say i removed all the salt cedars along the creekbanks, each one of those trees sucks up to 40 gallons of water a day per foot of hieght.water that comes DIRECTLY from that streambed. heres a little conservation fact for you,the largest ranch in south texas is doing this on a ongoing basis, streams that have NEVER RAN in recent memory are now flowing full time.IF, you were a rancher downstream from this one,would you benifit from this? That ranch is footing 75%(+) of the bill,gov is paying 25%(or $2500 whichever is less),is spending less money for dredging of rivers,is increasing wildlife populations ,is actually INCREASING the cattle holding capacity of the land downstream, making it easier for THOSE ranchers to make a living,putting water into rivers making them more available for commerce,increasing water available to cities in resivoirs and dozens of different things. but these are NOT money making programs. IF however i go to that site I'll likely see my name there. did i make money? no, will i ever make money? maybe but maybe not but the gov says i did. and i'll pay taxes TWICE on that money,once when i made it originally ,and again when i have to report it as income, IF i dont report the cost of this as a buisness investment. in other words if i report that $10000 as a cost of doing buisness, then i can get a tax break on that money. Same as you do I would hope when you say i put this dollar amount of seed in the ground,so thats is a farm cost and not a profit. not all these programs are bad,most are not money makers,all require some sort of initial investment , all have limitations or requirements.none are free,those folks that we holler about that buy land,put it in crp, and make hunting preserves are not making their money off crp,they are making their money off a hunting or guiding BUISNESS. crp is just a tool ,like a truck is to a service person.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 09:24:34
24.225.2.116
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to SweetFeet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| I don't begrudge "success", and never have.
But I do begrudge "those" who could care less about what is happening to this great country.
With the "leadership" of this country spending like there is no tomorrow, America is sliding down hill fast.
EVERYONE who isn't part of the "solution" of getting this country back on track,... is part of the "problem".
I probably won't comment on this thread any further,... 'cause some folks are just too busy getting a "piece of the pie" to see the kitchen is crumbling down around OUR ears.
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| jackinok
10-11-2012 11:35:38
162.58.82.136
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-11-2012 09:24:34
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| I agree with you oldiron,and i do understand what your saying ,but i also believe that gov SPENDING is not neccesarily the root problem.the real root problem is not the spending, but them spending money they dont have,and i think you are saying this also. But to me the problem is not the "HAVES" ,that pay taxes, its the "HAVE NOTS" that dont. this is where the so called grey area of taxes comes in. do you and i continue to support the folks who dont pay with our taxes ,propigating the problem? or do we say enough is enough ,that democracy doesnt mean a handout or a RIGHT to live,but it means simply you have the freedom to live as you choose on your OWN initiative like the constitution says ? I dont get in on these programs,though ive bought and planted i cant even say how many acres of crp grass and things, have had gov people advise me of this and that and whatever.I support those folks 100% simply because they are workers albeit gov workers who have a job and pay taxes.thats their job,and I support anyone who makes jobs possible. But there again i dont begrudge folks who use these programs. i believe that its not my place to support everyone in this country,I'll support my family,thats who iam responsible for ONLY.if the folks who utilize these programs get money back from the gov,and pay in $1 taxes above what they recieve they simply are NOT a problem,no way no how no way you figure it COULD they be it just plain doesnt figure out that way.The very best thing that could happen to this country in my opinion is a good plain old famine.every farmer in the country should just say we are not going to farm next year and let the folks who are ACTUALLY on the dole starve. one of two things would happen,either they would starve and lighten the load ,or they would find someway of working to support themselves. till they go to work, or otherwise get off the lam,nothing will change period. BUT.. you know what would happen if all farmers did that? in 24 hours you would see a gov man at your door making you work to feed the rest, the reason? gov is not the real problem, POLITICIANS in gov is the problem.they depend on that segment of or country they control through handouts.without them they cannot exist,till they change nothing else will period.gov doesnt spend money,,its an idea, a common belief in our way of life ,its words on paper. politicians are the problem they are the ones that spend. till the masses start taking responsibility for them selves theres no reason to argue about these programs ,as long as one single dollar comes in from the ag industry above its cost,its neutral its self sustaining ,it has no bearing on the problem whatsoever.same way with any individual farmer,as long as he pays that one single dollar in taxes,hes 100$ sustainable REGARDLESS of how much money he makes,takes,spends, or otherwise.
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| MF Poor
10-11-2012 09:36:12
72.4.0.230
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-11-2012 09:24:34
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| | It's really a shame that someone with the convictions you THINK you have, really has no flippin' clue what you're talking about. You repeat the same old, tired cliche's. The problem is people with outdated thinking. The "kitchen" isn't crumbling down around OUR ears...Yours maybe, not mine. I care a great deal about this country and it's future. That's why I'm not content to live with mediocrity and lack of ambition like yourself. I'm about doing BETTER, not just surviving and clinging to what's in the rear view mirror.
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| jammison
10-11-2012 09:21:50
72.181.173.171
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to MtMan, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeAre you defining "success" = "on the gov't dole"? :cry:
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| jackinok
10-11-2012 08:49:28
162.58.82.136
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| first let me say i dont take any money either,never have,( other than price support money i took when i took a crop to market, that EVERY SINGLE farmer gets when he does)but for you folks who think all i have to do is go buy a few acres and im automaticly eligible for some gov program ,you REALLY need to check how these programs work, thats 100% false.IF that were true,every single person in the us that owns a lot would be eligible. even the US gov is not "THAT" crazy.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 08:48:07
24.225.2.153
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to ray hofstetter, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| My Dad passed away years ago at the age of 77.
At the time, his funeral was the biggest this county had ever seen. You can call me an "idiot", but I got my sense of "honor and pride" from HIM (one of the most respected and honest farmers to have lived around here during his time). Dad always said "no thanks" when came to farming programs.
,.... and my remaining family is living comfortably, I make sure of that.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 08:24:22
24.225.2.153
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to SweetFeet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
So you're just greedy????????
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
That's also what the "welfare queens" in this country say.
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Now that's FUNNY,... 'cause I'm probably older than YOU! :lol: :lol:
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
So am I,... but NOT by feeding at the "gov trough" like some greedy pig competing with other pigs .
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| Lamar Fudd
10-11-2012 07:59:18
50.83.85.99
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| How right you are, Old Iron. For instance, if Romney gets in office, one thing he wants to do is eliminate 'free' health insurance; the kind an employer pays for. He wants what an employer pays added to the salary/wages of the employees. That will be interesting, too. It bothered me that my Mom, drawing Medicare, couldn't get glasses or hearing aids, both of which she needed, but her neighbor on Medicaid got BOTH. All Mom had was Soc. Sec. and she could pay her bills, but had no car. Only socializing was when we'd ger her for groceries and an outing now ad then.
This post was edited by Lamar Fudd at 08:50:38 10/11/12.
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| JMOR
10-11-2012 07:47:50
72.181.173.171
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to jwmfarms, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeTrying to home in on the problem and this stuck out: " if it's there for the taking, you might as well take it ". It should NOT be there for the taking...........pure & simple it is congressmen bribing & buying votes! It should not be happening. They ought to be in prison!
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 07:37:11
24.225.2.153
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to dave2, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
When this country absolutely can't survive any longer under it's growing national debt, and the "farming programs" (along with other entitlements) come to an end,.... we're going to be seeing a MUCH different "level playing field" my friend. :wink:
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| Commercial Farmer
10-11-2012 08:00:49
184.8.130.221
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-11-2012 07:37:11
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| I'm not your friend and believe me....I can easily
live without subsidies. I don't make the rules I
just use them to my advantage. I used to think like
you junior but that was a long time ago I'm in
business to make money not friends.
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| bobbyboywestcentIN
10-11-2012 13:07:34
98.223.50.128
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Commercial Farmer, 10-11-2012 08:00:49
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| commercial farmer... your name says it all. it's just a business to you. too bad there's too many more like you these days to reverse the trend farming has taken.
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| MFPoor
10-11-2012 09:03:48
72.4.0.230
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Commercial Farmer, 10-11-2012 08:00:49
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| | What he said^^^^^ Some people are their own worst enemies. They haven't the ambition to do BETTER than what they grew up with. I'm happy with my success, but I'll NEVER stand pat, I'll NEVER say "good enough, let's stop here". After farming through the '80's, I've had years where I've lost money. The past few, I've made money, the likes of which I never imagined possible. Still, I'm not tossing money out the window when it's there for me. Who knows what NEXT year might hold. Or the following year. I can't take it with me when I go, but I'll darn sure do whatever it takes to make sure what I leave behind will keep my family and those who follow in good stead. And I'm just astounded at how so many in this country now begrudge success and those who are successful.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 07:27:31
24.225.2.153
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Zachary Hoyt, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Oh I have no doubt,... that some BTO's on some other website, have honed their "entitlement mentality" into a sharp-edged sword, and could get some cuts on us smaller farmers while defending their "entitlements".
Why don't you have them come over here, and have them educate us on the benefits of living high off farmers who are actual taxpayers? :roll:
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| MF Poor
10-11-2012 08:28:18
72.4.0.230
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-11-2012 07:27:31
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| I doubt anyone could teach you anything, since it's obvious you already think you know it all. It's more than evident you don't understand what it takes to make it to the next level of success. And just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean it's wrong...It just means you don't/can't understand it. Personally, if I was you, I'd be embarrassed to admit I let money slip away that COULD have made a better life for your family. I'm just glad my father didn't raise an idiot. My sympathies to your dad.
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| Old Iron
10-11-2012 07:03:27
24.225.2.153
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to cd1, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Well said Dave2, and reading some of the comments here sounds so similar to the "chronically lazy liberals" (welfare queens) as to be laughable.
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| Commercial Farmer
10-11-2012 07:00:27
184.8.130.221
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Better yet, why don't you come on over to Ag Talk where the real farmers hang out and post some of your drivel. I'd like to read the responses a blowhard like you would likely get over there.
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| JML755
10-11-2012 06:53:36
97.78.165.184
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| The underlying theme here is govt "giving money". A number of posters defend the subsidies by saying it's just them getting part of THEIR tax dollars back and pointing to "liberals" giving money away via welfare.
In reality, the government can't "give" anything since it wasn't their money in the first place. If I work hard and grow a crop or make something with my labor and then "give" it to you, that's a "give". If I "take" $20 from you (taxes) and then give you back $10, that's not "giving".
Plus, there's an inefficiency to govt being involved in anything. Bureaucrats must be hired to administer these programs and the paperwork burden for recipients is non-value-added.
The health-care system is a perfect example. In times gone by, my parents would go to the doctor, get a bill and pay it, just lie we do when we buy groceries, get our cars fixed, get a haircuit, etc. Today, there are huge inefficiencies in the 3rd pary payer system. How many people are needed to code the services, submit the bills to an insurance company or Medicare, process the bill on the payer side, verify the codes are correct, etc. The system is setup perfectly for fraud.
Now, if I handed the check to a doctor directly and eliminate all the middlemen, there would be no possibility for fraud, waste, errors, etc.
Having govt more involved in our lives is never more efficient.
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| MFPoor
10-11-2012 02:50:40
72.4.0.230
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| We pay taxes, and we're just as entitled to our share of what the government has to GIVE BACK TO US as the next person. You can be swallowed up by a false sense of pride and turn down what's RIGHTFULLY YOURS, OR, be a prudent businessman and get what you have coming and use it to improve your position. The government can either give me back part of what I've paid in, or they can buy cell phones for non-working, chronically lazy liberals....They don't need phones nearly as bad as they think they do and I've worked for what I get. My dad didn't raise any fools. I'm not turning down money that's mine to begin with.
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| oldtanker
10-11-2012 06:33:16
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to MFPoor, 10-11-2012 02:50:40
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
The thing that bothers me there is that most tax payers don't have the option of "getting part of thier taxes back". If everyone was on level ground here it wouldn't be as offensive to me. I one of the guys who believes that everyone should pay taxes, even if it's just a dollar.
Rick
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| MF Poor
10-11-2012 07:06:04
72.4.0.230
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-11-2012 06:33:16
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| I have no issues with paying taxes. I pay plenty. I don't pay one cent MORE than I have to pay, and I think it's absolutely stupid to refuse to take back any of MY money when there's plenty of people taking it that DIDN'T contribute. If/when subsidies go away, and market sets prices, I'll deal with that. Currently, USDA/Washington manipulates market prices so that we DON'T get a price based on the true market value.
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| Dalet
10-10-2012 19:29:34
184.94.141.146
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| The website is faaar from accurate.
Probably funded by MSNBC. I am pretty sure.
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| northvale-PA
10-10-2012 19:20:31
71.114.144.7
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| most of the local guys near me have several similar names on the list. Don't think they are double counting do you? Naaa...
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| Don-Wi
10-10-2012 19:18:00
75.207.191.112
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| My dad is #155 on the list around here. He'd be much farther down but lately he enrolled in a few programs with the NRCS to better manage our farm. He's finally getting smart and learning to play the game. If they're gonna give out X amount of dollars every year, and it is a set amount, why not get a small chunk of it?
Donovan from Wisconsin
This post was edited by Don-Wi at 19:39:14 10/10/12.
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| Commercial Farmer
10-11-2012 07:05:03
184.8.130.221
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Don-Wi, 10-10-2012 19:18:00
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| I dairy farmed for 20 years before ever setting a
foot in an FSA office. Finally got smart about 16
years ago and put myself on a level playing field
with my neighbors.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 19:14:33
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to ShadetreeRet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
LOL I don't hang out in the local coffee shops....and nothing I could say to those people would make any difference.....they think they are entitled to that money. The same guys that cry because a business charges them enough to pay overhead and make a profit.
Rick
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| cjd12000
10-10-2012 18:56:51
174.252.40.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| For all those who don't take a penny and are full time farmers did you start from scratch or did you inherit,marry into a operation . I started from scratch left marines in 05 and moved back home started buying heifers and equipment. Did my cash flow for the banker last year for buying the neighbor cows and used grain prices for the last five years from the feed mill. non of the grain prices approached what they are today. A complete mix was something like 290 a Ton to 2010 today its over 400. Dairy farming is the one ofhardest type there is. We cant predict the future or the weather there is no solid floor for the price we received the news is all bs. This spring they claimed there was a shortage of milk in the northeast because of the Greek yogurt plant but my checks got smaller at the same time. T
my milk hauler told me they were trucking milk in from Michigan then the coop I am in started charging a balancing fee because there was to much milk. Those idiots were the ones having it trucked in. As I understand half the loads were rejected anyway because it churned on the way here. The worst part is cash flow its so hard to see where you will be at next month let alone next year so how to you know what to do. There is no milk insurance like all these crop farmers get. Its all supply and demand in dairy bit the news on it is so conflicting. Record exports milk shortages oh wait you pay price is going to drop. Record culling of cows heat is making cows milk less and with less components and the price drops again. The milc payment a dairy farmers limited option for a backup but people Look at it negative.you can fwd contract but that scary because if your feed prices rise to much and milk follows you might have left money on the table. I don't feel like its welfare but don't agree with subsidies either .
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| Commercial Farmer
10-10-2012 18:33:23
184.8.191.9
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Well then you better march right down to your local coffee shop (like all you mid westerners do) and set all those deadbeats straight tomorrow morning.
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| Traditional Farmer
10-10-2012 18:25:50
67.233.70.253
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| I agree 100% and in my county the top 4 or 5 in receiving payments are Millionaires that have never been farmers just bought some land and their accountants know how to milk the Gov't
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| Jabbo
10-10-2012 18:19:59
69.29.103.76
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | I have often wondered how large my business would have become, had I received a gift of free money from our government every year. But when the final bell rings and my life is over, I will be able to say I did it my way and I did it by myself. Those who receive government assistance will have to stand with their heads down and admit to themselves, if no one else, they were on the take, funded by taxpayers.
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| Bendee
10-10-2012 23:15:20
124.181.89.75
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Jabbo, 10-10-2012 18:19:59
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| You make it sound illegal.I would look at it as getting some of my taxes back. Just wish I can still talk when life is over.
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| dave2
10-11-2012 03:22:22
79.240.153.6
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Bendee, 10-10-2012 23:15:20
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
And mine and the rest of the folks that actually pay taxes rather than buy buy buy to avoid paying any taxes at all............
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| Pair-a-dice farm
10-10-2012 17:59:51
173.202.17.126
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| EWG is a pretty unreliable source of information. Some of the money that they are reporting is loan money that has to be repaid but they fail to mention that. That being said, I think ALL subsidies should be ended. I'll bet that everyone on here benefits from a subsidy from somewhere. You may not receive a check but something you use receives government money that makes that product cheaper or more readily available.
In my opinion government subsidies only encourage bad business practices. In the case of farming it also makes it even more difficult for young people to get started unless they inherit the farm or marry into it.
Along with my farming, I work for the Parks and Tourism in Arkansas. There is a tremendous amount of tax money spent on this industry with a very small return. At least with a farm subsidy everyone that eats gets some benefit. Not everyone wants to camp out.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 17:29:28
24.225.2.21
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Zachary Hoyt, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Exaggerate much? :roll:
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 17:23:25
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Shame on you JD seller, you being actually involved in real, not hobby farming, should know better than to help spread the EWG's total bovine scat.
EWG has an agenda to make conventional farmers look bad, and their not shy to lie / slant or ignore true numbers to further that agenda.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 15:17:47
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
All of them except the "lawyer".
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 15:10:07
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to SweetFeet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
That kind of "thinking" is what helped get this nation into a $16 TRILLION dollar DEBT. :evil:
Of course those who are getting the $$$ couldn't give a sh.t less about that! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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| WGWKy2
10-10-2012 15:01:11
98.23.17.124
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| I have used ewg.org for years. They lie as much as any politician and do not try to get their facts straight. They list me as No. seven in my county to get gov. money. The money I recive comes from a tobacco co. settlement paid by the tobacco companys. I do use any cost share that I qualify for and will as long as there is a gov. program. I like farmer food stamps.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 15:00:43
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to SweetFeet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| A young fella that lives 2 miles east of me has received $596,046.79 in subsidies.
His brother received $863,266.14
His dad received $695,128.91
and his uncle received $643,513.55
That's a LOT of taxpayer money for pretty much just one family. :evil:
Another landowner (who is also a "lawyer" BTW) received $803,960.97 :evil:
My cousin received $383,111.53 (we haven't been on "speaking terms" for many years, because he KNOWS what I think of his "mooching" off the taxpayers :evil: :lol:)
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| Wile E
10-10-2012 15:10:01
66.188.56.202
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Old Iron, 10-10-2012 15:00:43
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| Are all of these guys farmers?
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| tjdub
10-10-2012 14:47:48
208.28.88.253
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Most of the names near the top of that list in my ZIP code are not farmers. Most of them are city dwellers who bought farms and turned them into CRP-financed hunting preserves.
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| Dick2
10-10-2012 14:39:12
174.19.205.113
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| My view is very simple. We need a constitutional amendment that the government can not give money to anyone for any reason if a federal deficit exists!!!!!!
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| Ron/PA
10-10-2012 15:00:49
108.57.26.159
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Dick2, 10-10-2012 14:39:12
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
OK but that same amendment needs to take off all government price controls. No more milk pricing. Let the free market work it's magic and let the public pay the price just like they do for any other commodity.
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| donjr
10-10-2012 14:36:13
72.71.177.74
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| I probably will get slammed some for this, but I'm on that list. Being in the Cheasapeake watershed isn't always easy, and we have been targeted for pollution controls by the greenies and ZEPA and even the law classes at the U of Md.
If NRCS can help with a solution, such as a waterway or stream buffers, they are often willing to fund it. I still have to borrow the money to put the practice in, even though I may feel I don't need it, and they will cost share it, sometimes to 87 1/2% of the cost. But we are also leaders in many programs to reduce nutrients and soil from getting into the waterway.I will not argue that some programs just don't make sense- some don't. But many that I have put in have been good for me and the envirionment, and quite frankly, may have not have been put in if I had to totally fund them. It is hard, sometimes. to realize that what I do here on my acreage, when combined with other farms, can be determental to downstream towns, cities and populated areas, as well as the Bay. They merely get me to put in some pollution controls to decrease the TMDL from this place by helping me to put them in now, and in turn, I worry less about what some skivvie waver may claim is fouling his bath water. Citidiots have too much time on their hands, and are constantly trying to find something to complain about. If I can prove to them it's not my chit, they go away happy.....
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| jm.
10-10-2012 17:55:38
75.105.64.52
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to donjr, 10-10-2012 14:36:13
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| Don jr Well said.. I farm about 4400 acres of highly sesative land in the Cumberland & Tennesse river bottom. Government is allways telling us what we can do. I will take ever penny I can get from any program.. I think most real farmers now days do.. Nuff said.
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| IHRedRules
10-10-2012 14:51:41
166.137.88.18
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to donjr, 10-10-2012 14:36:13
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| God Bless Donjr.... he hit the nail on the head for me. There is so much more to government farm payments than just handouts. Many farmers are receiving money for CONSERVATION. We are getting tremendous environmental benefits for what little money it costs us as tax payers. There is assistance for Filter Strips, Grassed Waterways, Waste Storage Facilities, No-till, and I could go on and on. My other thought is if it's there for the taking, you might as well take it if you qualify. If it's your choice to not take it, then don't complain that everyone is getting rich and you aren't.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 15:19:00
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to IHRedRules, 10-10-2012 14:51:41
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
I'm not complaining because I'm not getting it. I'm complaining BECAUSE I"M HELPING TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the guys around here who are getting the most from it need it the least. I don't like welfare. I undersatnd that sometimes things happen an people need a little help. If that's all it is I don't complain. If it's a long term user who will not get a job or keep a job then I get mad about that too.
That's the problem. We as a society are all thinking that way, "if it's there for the taking"......well maybe if you don't need it and didn't take it people wouldn't get so darn mad about it!
Rick
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| rrlund
10-10-2012 15:26:39
207.241.137.116
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 15:19:00
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| Then end it! I don't hold out much hope for that though since number 9 on the list that I'm on,is the husband or IHRed and my republican State Senator. Guess that's why they have two new front wheel assist tractors and I'm farming with these 60 year old Olivers huh?
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| rrlund
10-10-2012 15:14:52
207.241.137.116
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to IHRedRules, 10-10-2012 14:51:41
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| | Exactly! One of the guys near the top of the list that I'm on hasn't farmed in years. He owns a pretty fair whack of land and has had it all in CRP almost since the begining of the program. I know all that money has to be from CRP not from any kind of so called subsidies. Two of the others near the top of the list,one is currently,and one was for a long time,on the Soil Conservation District County Committee. I'd bet most of their payments were cost share for conservation projects.
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| Billy NY
10-10-2012 13:57:14
24.29.79.122
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | Its interesting, I can't comment much, as I don't know much about it. I see my long time neighbor/farmer is not on that list. He was always smart (some people say tight) with a buck, made a paycheck with farming, never really outgrew his means. I'll bet any liquidity he has now was from land sales in the past, and whatever could have been retained in the marginal profits over the years, boy I sure wish he could have gotten in in the higher corn in the last few years, after how many years of walking a fine line of profit. Like you JD Seller, he started small, he worked with his father in farming, and at a certain point had several jobs besides the farm when he was young. Theres a black and white photo on their kitchen wall, JD 420 with a pull behind JD combine, harvesting oats, even his dad doubted the success, as it was financed, he did custom work, his own, not sure of all the details but it was humble beginnings, but he paid for everything and was profitable, maybe not by much either. Later on, he grew slowly, probably had 150 head at peak, several hundred acres in ground, rented or owned, and almost late model tractors, equipment, not sure how much or what if anything was bought new, he always made it work financially, 3 sons and a daughter to raise. 20 years back a devastating fire, arson, almost ruined him, and it had something to do with the walmart being proposed on an adjacent farm that I used to enjoy seeing from the hillside out of my kitchen window, silos dotted the horizon, now its a parking lot, he did not have enough insurance, town would not even allow a benefit to be held to help raise money, (shows how much a farmer is appreciated) Just prior to that he had expanded as the adjacent farmer sold some equipment to him, lost that in the fire and though he was strictly a JD guy, he had many other brands on the job as well, I distinctly remember his Case 311 (round nose- was odd looking as it literally was the only Case around here, I liked it, think that burnt too) he had a nice shop and so on. I watched all of it burn, livestock, tractor, shop, dairy barn, silos spewing flammable vapors from the intense heat, I could not get within hundreds of feet. It was devastating to me, I could not imagine what was going to be the result of this. That just gives you some scale of one kind of hardship on one individual. Oh and here is what it looked like from my house, like a plane went down, thick black smoke: 
He made it over that huge obstacle, and around '08 for the first time bought several new pieces and a nice late model tractor, after all these years I think he deserved it, then health issues cropped up, I was available and helped whenever he needed me, even took some flak at my other job, which resulted in a physical altercation with a loud mouth, he ended up in the dirt with a tired, angry s.o.b.(me) at his throat with a framing hammer, things get tough sometimes and really tries a persons patience, and though I'm far removed, my part at times was not easy given the work hours I kept, leaves a short fuse. Its a similar model that many farmers have chose, and why those may still be around without government assistance. Not saying its a bad thing, maybe it is, being honest I do not know, but I've always admired this farm since I was very young. Like I said I cannot comment, don't know much about it, but I do not like tax money being misused (not saying it is in this case), larger operators around here are all on the list. I think one the biggest concerns I have with the politicians is the use of our tax money, that alone irritates me to no end, and likely most who are honest with other folks money when entrusted with it. Had best leave it at that.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 13:35:37
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Dick2, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
AND THE RICH JUST KEEP GETTING RICHER!
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
NO,... not 'everybody",... just the one's who are addicted to gov handouts!
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| Wile E
10-10-2012 13:29:22
66.188.56.202
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| This is upsetting.
There are farmers in my area (That I know) that have raked in thousands of dollars. The top of the class is a guy that has pulled in almost $300,000 in 15 years. I guess those new tractors and combines have to be paid for with something.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 13:24:24
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to dave2, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Not only are crop subsidies "dishonest" but they REALLY put the screws to small farmers.
I say, eliminate ALL forms of crop subsidies,... and the BTO's would have to cut back on the size of their operations.
Equipment prices would start to drop because the mega-sized farm equipment would cease to be in demand by BTO's.
.... and the number of "small farmers" would immediately start to INCREASE all across the nation.
Of course the BTO's will paint an entirely different picture as they continue to justify the "need" for subsidized gov programs paid for by taxpayers.
:lol:
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| Ron/PA
10-10-2012 13:24:06
108.57.26.159
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| This is probably about the most despicable post I've seen on this board for quite a while. This topic pops up on nearly every ag forum from garden tractors to big time operators of the largest size.
That site reports sooooooo much more than it represents in it's format. After a severe flood, we were approached by the US government to repair some field damage on 3 contiguous farms from a stream that went out of it's banks and destroyed several fields. This had NOTHING to do with any crops, crop insurance, or subsidy for crop related losses. Just erosion repair. No one in the group had applied for any relief of any kind but the chain of communication in the US government filtered down to our names.
We did not have the equipment or resources to do the work and we told them so. They asked us to oversee the contracting of the work and it was all cleared through USDA and paid directly to the contractor. Not one red cent came to us.
We showed up for years as having received in excess of one hundred thousand dollars on that site.
This is a constant source of misinformation that's commonly used by smaller, less productive operators, quite often hobby farmers who can't make a buck in the best markets to justify their hatred for larger more professional and productive neighbors.
It's usually and I suspect in this case as well, pure outright envy.
Know what you're reading before you start spouting off about the misinformation on that site.
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| Wile E
10-10-2012 14:24:27
66.188.56.202
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ron/PA, 10-10-2012 13:24:06
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| I have looked at other zip codes on this subsidy site. I looked up my uncle and he has received over $50k in 15 years. My uncle has (to my knowledge) never had a flood or serious soil erosion or a tornado. Less than a third of the money he got was for disasters.
In my zip code there is a guy that I didnt know (or think) was a farmer and he got over $40k. Like all government spending, there is waste and abuse---just being honest in my opinion. I am sure there are lots of farmers that have had real disasters or price collaspes in say corn or oats and it would wreck them. But by and large lots of the money taken by farmers is just for padding their wallets.
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 13:00:29
24.225.2.118
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to mazemeister, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
I've never used crop insurance, and I think overall (after 45 years of farming) I'm money ahead for it.
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| Tony S.
10-10-2012 12:59:04
173.84.219.150
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| The real problem with crop subsidies is they're dishonest. They hide part of the price of the food in the taxes, or in the deficit. I believe people have a right to know what stuff really costs.
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| Allan In NE
10-10-2012 12:26:26
148.66.98.174
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | How do you handle your crop insurance? Do you pay the full premium (prohibitive) or don’t you use crop insurance at all? Allan
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| NY 986
10-10-2012 13:12:38
67.142.178.23
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Allan In NE, 10-10-2012 12:26:26
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| He indicated in the dairy thread he used the government subsidized insurance but did not say at what level. I don't have a problem with that but a BTO with ten thousand plus acres should have to pay more than a few hundred dollars per crop for catastrophic coverage which is usually 50 percent of average yield. I don't think the government should have to provide anything more than a safety net for smaller farmers as opposed to helping mint millionaires. I think there should be a graduated scale as the acres increase the operator shoulders more of the true cost of coverage. Maybe do it in 500 acre increments.
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| Thesmoothedeere
10-10-2012 11:45:38
69.171.171.117
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| 1.2 million now come that does kinda p.ss you off .
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| Old Iron
10-10-2012 10:51:36
24.225.2.1
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to SweetFeet, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Neither is mine! :)
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| Ronald Anthony Anderson
10-10-2012 10:42:08
184.94.143.94
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| It would be nice if it would tell the whole story but no it doesn"t. Look at the price for the Farm Program. Now look at that price and make a circle graph and see what percent actually goes to the farmer and what goes towards welfare food-stamps etc.
It also includes gov loans that were paid back. This was posted a few years ago as a slam against farmers in general. I guess people want cheap food and will ignore the cost factor to get it. There is a part of business that people either are too stubborn to admit or they are ignorant. Businesses whether farming or main street need to make a profit or they will go broke. Now days you don"t make the profit on one item like you used to so you have to sell more items or cut costs.
Nowadays people like to criticize other people because they are successful. My response is to say if it is that easy why don"t you do it?
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| Ronald Anthony Anderson
10-10-2012 10:56:55
184.94.143.94
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ronald Anthony Anderson, 10-10-2012 10:42:08
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| Speaking of gov payments wouldn't you like to see where the politicians made all their money?
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 11:09:27
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ronald Anthony Anderson, 10-10-2012 10:56:55
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Don't know but even if they made that money off of the government it doesn't make farm subsidies right. That just makes another wrong.
Rick
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| Ronald Anthony Anderson
10-10-2012 13:03:52
184.94.143.94
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 11:09:27
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| Using the same thought process is the gov guranteed solar programs right? How about the gov vehicle the Volt or for that matter GM bailout that hung stockholders while rewarding unions? How about the railroad subsidys past and present? We can't forget the money given to Pakistan or other countries either. How about oil subsidies? Same for grants or reduced taxes given to companies that build in a certain town
When you look at it everybody has a excuse for free money.
I agree that with 8.00 corn and 16.00 beans it isn't needed but that website is misleading and inaccurate.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 13:25:33
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ronald Anthony Anderson, 10-10-2012 13:03:52
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
You think I'm happy about that? I'm not! Still don't make the farm subsidies right. I looked at all the names in my zip code. The guys that need it the most get little if any yet the big guns get most.
Add in that I feel like I've been had by both the farmers and the government every time I'm in a grochery store. I've paid for it once, then again at the check out.
Foreign aid? Don't work! We have been trying for a century to buy friends, look where it has gotten us.
Rick
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 10:48:40
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ronald Anthony Anderson, 10-10-2012 10:42:08
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
I am starting to do it and darn sure am not going to take government money. If I can't make money at it I will tyr something else.
Rick
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| Jabbo
10-10-2012 10:37:40
69.29.103.76
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| There is a group of farmers who receive a lot of money through these programs. They like to brag about their new equipment. That is not their equipment, it is the taxpayers equipment. These guys are in the same category as the rest of the check-cashers that are dependent on our government. The newspaper published a list of those who participate and how much they are paid. Farmers were not in their happy place.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 10:27:54
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Really pizzes me off! You can't run it as a business then you shouldn't be doing it!
One guy on the lrst is my former tenet, guy is always yelling about how much it cost to farm and how little he makes but he always has some new piece of equipment......345,000!
SO what if JD Corp gets some tax breaks? How many tax payers do they hire counting the dealerships? The guy above hires no one, takes the money and then trys to get out of paying any taxes.......he's called a farmer.
Why is everyone getting the money trying to justify it? You didn't do a darn thing to earn it! That's my tax dollar!
Rick
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| dave2
10-10-2012 10:31:24
79.240.148.207
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 10:27:54
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
people skills are failing a little there DAT :roll:
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 10:38:24
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to dave2, 10-10-2012 10:31:24
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Dave when we are 16 trillion dollars in debt, and I pay my taxes and someone pays nothing but thinks the deserve a handout......don't expect people skills! I don't know anyone on welfare who has gotten 345,000 in 5 years! So I guess you know where that puts these people at in my book. I'm going to see my BIL later, he got 150,000 and tell him what I think of him too!
Rick
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 17:01:34
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 10:38:24
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| Yep, farmers are all on welfare.
We do not have the cheapest, most plentiful and best food in the world.
Your food is made in the grocery store, farmers do nothing to feed you so cheaply.
Everything on the EWG site is the total unbiased truth, they are not a bunch of hippy vegetarian / organic lawers who slant and omit numbers to make conventional farmers look bad.
A farmers $300,000 combine is kind of a mystery motor home that the farmer uses to go to Vegas, not a d*m expensive tool he needs to grow your cheap food.
Rick, you have no clue.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 17:55:08
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-10-2012 17:01:34
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Yea I do have a clue. If I start an earth moving business I better make enough to pay my overhead to include equipment plus profit. But a farmer isn't bound by those rules. If I open a store I have to make enough to stay in business but a farmer doesn't have to. I didn't call it welfare. I said it's a government handout and it is. You don't have to farm, you can be a lot of other things besides a farmer. I darn sure do know where my food comes from. No I'm not a hippy. Nor am I organic or a vegetarian.
The biggest family farmers around here all drive new trucks, have nice equipment and got over 1 million. Guy I was renting to has dumped over 500K into equipment in the last year alone, 349K. I know he ad one heck of a year last year and isn't doing bad this year. I darn sure know what it cost to start up on a small scale because I'm doing it. Right now. I think without government money I will be able to show a small profit next year. Now if I can start up, pay for tractors and such without debt, and make a profit in my 3rd year guess I'm just a better manager than those other guys?????? No that's not it. It's because I chose to do this without help I have to manage better than the other guys. I know these guys. I'm not any better than they are. They are taking advantage of a situation that is costing me, you and the rest of tax payers money. I know there are many other areas the government could and should cut back spending on. This is just one of many.
Seems to me that I recall a man, giving a speech who said "Ask not what my country can do for me, ask what I can do for my country". Seems we as a people have fogotten that.
And we keep saying how bad the youngsters are today....wonder where they learned it from?
You sir are the one without a clue.
Rick
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 19:15:29
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 17:55:08
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| | Your telling me in this rare time of very good grain prices, you MIGHT make a small profit without subsidy, but not enough to put any new efficient iron on the place ??. When prices are low again like they historically are, your gonna be in trouble when things wear out, right ? The farmers in this country, 1% of the population,grow enough food to feed 350 million non farmers, the other 99%,plus export enough to feed another 150 million overseas,which by the way, is one of the few things this country still exports. And we do it at a price so low that Americans spend less than 20% of income on food, so they have the other 80% to pump back into the economy.to keep the country running. Those piddling little farm subsidies keep the farm sector healthy enough, with good modern equippment, to keep producing that cheap stable supply of food America loves so much but does not appreciate. The big farmers get 90% of the subsidy, well yeah, they produce 90% of the food too. Look it up.
Dumb as politicians are, their smart enough to realize how much that piddling litte subsidy program brings to this country.
None of this would be possible if every farmer was forced to work 80 acres with a 20-50 year old trucks and little 50-70 year old tractors.
The smallest farm that will pay a family a living income in my area, even with the little subsidy perks, is 3-4,000 acres, with many of the really successful farms farming 10,000 acres with modern equipment. Just that the 99% non farming population are so far removed from what feeds this country and a good part of the world, that they have no clue what a good deal they are getting.
And fools with full fat bellys on this site, call real farmers evil. That is evil.:(
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 19:49:06
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-10-2012 19:15:29
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Jon you must have missed something. Next year will be our 3rd year. I'm paying for everything as we go....NO DEBT! Making a profit in 3 years, buying 4 tractors, a combine, implements, seed, fuel, parts fertilizer, livestock and livestock feed I don't think is too bad.
We are kinda small starting up but hope to expand. About the only thing I can see us going to the bank for is more land.
Yea the newer stuff is better but not at the price of big time debt to pay for it to us. We have a small mortgage payment and that's it. Less than 500 a month. That is our only debt.
I never called the guys taking the money evil. I think of them more as willing victims of the system.
Me, I think it's more important to supply our military members currently serving with good equipment than to pay subsidies to farmers.
Rick
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| sideconsole4020guy
10-10-2012 19:31:48
216.249.194.192
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-10-2012 19:15:29
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| I will just say that if some one has to farm 3-4000 acres to make a family income they need to go to school and learn how to better manage money and they could get by on less acres and leave some ground for younger guys to farm, this is what is wrong with the country, all those big farmers, if the didnt need to keep up with the guy down the road and have new equipment they wouldnt need all that land and those hand outs, I totally agree with JDSELLER, you are right about the payments. Its funny because the name on the top of the list in my county is my neighbor 1/2 mile away, who my dad used to work full time for and I worked during the season, they let me and my dad go because they couldnt pay us any more when they were susposidly loosing 40,000 grand a month on hogs when corn first hit $6.00 and the have got well over $1.2 million. Its so wrong all those handouts. In my opinion if a guy had land that was paid for or rented that I could make a good living and not have to work in town with only 800-1000 acres, but there again I dont care if my newest tractor would be a 55 series JD and I wouldnt need anything more than 12 row planter.
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 20:36:46
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to sideconsole4020guy, 10-10-2012 19:31:48
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| | The number of acres needed depends on where you farm, "I" state corn and bean country or North Dakota Prairie dryland farming. Your thoughts on how many acres makes a viable farm, reminds me of a story my grandfather told me. My grandfather came to ND with his same age young 18 year old wife in 1906.
His boss in Iowa bought some cheap ND farm land from the railroad as an investment and sent this young couple to manage the ND farm. They built the farm and raised crops sutible to the ND growing season and climate.
After a few years, grand dads boss in Iowa was upset about the lower yields / income he was getting from his ND farm. He sent his Iowa born and raised son to ND to take over the farm and show grand dad how it is done.
After 3 years of doing no better than grand dad, the Iowa son has to admit that he could do no better and quietly went back to Iowa with Grandpa back in charge of the ND farm. Grandpa had no more meddling in the farm operation up to the time he bought the land from the Iowa owner in 1948. Our input costs are the same as the I states, yet 125 BU corn is a great crop, and 40 bu soybeans are considered a bumper crop.
50 BPA wheat is considered a bumper crop, so I think we know how to manage with very small margins. That is why a 2000 acre farmer like me, struggles along with mostly old iron in the 20-30 year old range and it takes 6-10,000 acres to pay for the newer iron that does as much in a day as I can do in a week with my 30 year old combine.
I chose to remain a small farm operation and spent the shop time to keep old iron reliable and working. I just retired, debt free, own my equipment and land, with enough for a comfortable retirement, but I am not blind to the capacity and efficiency of my neighbors who farm big with near new equipment.
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| oldtanker
10-10-2012 21:19:38
66.228.255.239
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-10-2012 20:36:46
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| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Jon where abouts in ND. I'm 90 soouth east of Fargo and my oldest daughter and her family is up near Rolla.
Like I said I'm just starting out and still getting some of the machinery I need. Yea a lot of old stuff that needs constant attention. I'm going to start working on converting the barn to a shop next spring so I can work inside. All I have to do in the winter is feed critters, I can get a lot of things ready over the winter with a decent place to work.
Rick
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 22:08:41
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 21:19:38
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| Central ND, a few miles outside of a little town named Goodrich.
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| dave2
10-10-2012 10:56:46
79.240.148.207
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to oldtanker, 10-10-2012 10:38:24
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| I agree, just pokin... Worse over here.... I can't compete for hay or pasture ground because the per hectare price they get covers the rent rate...These guys just hoard the land and put it in programs to get even more handouts... And, an organic farmer gets double....
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| Mike (WA)
10-10-2012 11:46:57
69.10.199.107
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to dave2, 10-10-2012 10:56:46
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| A local farmer whose wife was of Finnish descent made a trip with her to the old country about 30 years ago. He saw guys farming tiny plots, and apparently making a living at it. At the same time, prices of products in the stores wasn't really too high. So having some time on his hands while wifey renewed old ties, he conscripted a nephew as an interpreter, and decided to try to understand the system. Talked to grocers, distributors, wholesalers, farmers, etc. He found that the carton of strawberries in the market cost the final consumer less than the farmer had originally been paid for them. Guvment was subsidizing every level of production and marketing, so everyone involved could make a living. Seems like it would work fine, until guvment ran out of money. But then, we can just print more!!!
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| Dean
10-10-2012 10:16:09
67.172.15.77
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | My name is nowhere to be found. Dean
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| Mike M
10-10-2012 10:06:24
24.140.0.120
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| WOW !!! The grand totals for just a few of the guys in my area are stagering.
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| W4
10-10-2012 09:59:50
50.124.14.155
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| All of a sudden I have the shakes after looking up the ones from Genesse County Mich.You ruined my day!!! W4
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| tjiniowa
10-10-2012 09:57:30
63.152.60.77
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Pretty hard to compete on renting land against the big boys if you don't take the payment, and some landlords want to keep the payment also, which they are not entitled to. What is the DCP this year a big $20some bucks, not much for me with a couple hundred acres. I am sure most of these payments you are all so worried about will be gone with the next farm bill because some farmers are making too much money.
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| NY 986
10-10-2012 09:52:04
67.142.178.23
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| I've already checked a while ago for the immediate area I am in and already know close to three quarters of the farmers here have taken payments regardless of political stripe. Some are hypocrites as they criticize others as they take payments themselves. Some of the ultra conservatives would say if you can't meet production costs then you should not be doing a given enterprise. If you have to sell out then that is what needs to happen according to them.
Frankly, there are things with respect to competing farmers that make my blood boil a whole lot more. One is the crop insurance program which is an indirect subsidy as your premium is subsidized to your insurance carrier. The crappier BTO's would be a lot less aggressive if the government was not there to cover their reckless gambles. Also, some of them should be paying more taxes to cover the deficits that have been run up to enhance their way of life just as well as everybody else has benefitted. Not much you can do about the ones that have a gimmick like shady money or exotic financing to make their operations run.
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| BigTone
10-10-2012 09:50:32
24.97.34.195
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | Before you go shooting your mouth off and start calling people dead beats, allow me to educate you on the term "Dead Beat." A "dead beat" is someone who takes assistance from or advantage of a person or program without a TRUE need for the assistance or ZERO intent on repayment. When a person/people accept financial support and refuse to properly use that support, then said person is a "Dead Beat." With milk prices dropping, grain/corn prices rising the family farm has to fight to stay alive. I can tell you the money recieved on our farm goes to good use (what very little we recive), and the guys working the farm, 7 days a week, all day, work very hard for little pay to provide our local community(s) with quality local milk, cheese, and other dairy products from a FAMILY FARM, not a CORPORATE FARM. Watch "Farm Aid" and tell me those folks do not deserve a little help. Want to know what gets my blood pressure rising, people who make blanket statements and include good hard working gentleman and ladies.
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| Commercial Farmer
10-10-2012 18:09:00
184.8.191.9
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to BigTone, 10-10-2012 09:50:32
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| It' obvious jdsellers knowledge is very limited when it comes to dairy.
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| Dave Sherburne NY
10-10-2012 09:47:17
173.85.179.102
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| You forgot to mention Solindra GM and all those other corporations that are on the dole.
Personally if I were eligible I would take all the government would give me. Look at the list you gave and don't forget the gov. buys condoms and birth control and all kinds of crap. fo rwelfare recipients. I think you will find farmers are a small part of government waste
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| Jon Hagen
10-10-2012 17:16:07
69.26.17.61
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Dave Sherburne NY, 10-10-2012 09:47:17
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| Over 80% of the so called farm bill $$$ goes to food stamps school food programs, WIC etc.
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| farmer boy
10-10-2012 12:05:06
66.209.49.50
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Dave Sherburne NY, 10-10-2012 09:47:17
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| I don't really have a opinion on US farm programs. Canada has their own programs that are a complete waste of money that the farmers aren't entitled to, but a few of the programs aren't really a bad idea and seem to work. I personally think that any type of free birth control for welfare recipients is a great idea. There is no other program that offers this much value for a dollar.
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| Ken Macfarlane
10-10-2012 17:12:08
184.151.114.135
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to farmer boy, 10-10-2012 12:05:06
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| | I'm not sure what there is for gov assistance here in Canada. I can defer my property taxes if I keep farm land farmed ie don't let it grow up. After 15 years the oldest year falls off the books so if you stop farming after 20 years the oldest 5 years don't have to be paid back. Other than that? I can claim sales tax back on inputs, I can buy dyed diesel with no road tax. Once in a while you can get loans to put in manure lagoons etc when they bring in new regs but you have to pay it back with interest. There is farm income stabilization but I don't qualify, and it costs a lot.
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| farmer boy
10-10-2012 21:52:20
66.209.49.50
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 10-10-2012 17:12:08
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| There's programs like AgriInvest, AgriStability, etc. There's also one time programs like the Ontario hog buyout, and programs that will pay a portion of certain buildings such as manure storage, feed storage, etc. I guess though, a dairy and poultry industry that don't need as much support as they may in the States helps too. I really am not aware of what's available in the States or how much they spend on their programs. I'm not really educated enough to speak on the subject, just stating my uneducated opinion.
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| JerryS
10-10-2012 11:43:57
68.18.15.49
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Dave Sherburne NY, 10-10-2012 09:47:17
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| Frankly, I don't care how much the government spends for free condoms and birth control pills. I would even support a spay/neuter program.
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| tomNE
10-10-2012 09:43:02
75.245.198.112
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| i checked mine a few years ago....it included a loan on grain that i took out when prices were really low. funny thing; they never credited the repayment or interest money....i'd call the list rather inaccurate!
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| rrlund
10-10-2012 09:29:29
207.241.137.116
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| Surprised to see that I'm number 19 for my zip code. Those milc payments that I got for those few years must have really skewed the average,because I sure as heck haven't been getting $4055 a year in DCP. That one year that LDP was so high probably made a big difference too. I'm thinking there was only about 2 years that I even got that one.
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| Greg1959
10-10-2012 09:34:39
69.176.13.178
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to rrlund, 10-10-2012 09:29:29
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| IIRC, those payments listed, cover a 15-16 year period. So it is total payments received.
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| rrlund
10-10-2012 15:09:56
207.241.137.116
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to Greg1959, 10-10-2012 09:34:39
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| Yes,I averaged it out over all the years.
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| paul
10-10-2012 09:22:48
66.44.133.112
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to JDseller, 10-10-2012 09:19:39
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| | That list can be quite inaccurate - some of the 'paymnts' are loans that are repaid, those were not accurately credited in the list. Wonder how much govt gravy John Deere has gotten over the years, tax breaks, grants, TIF deals, cleanup-grants, etc, to keep you employed? Care to reveal that list? :) --->Paul
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| lloyd in sc
10-10-2012 09:44:38
70.62.69.95
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to paul, 10-10-2012 09:22:48
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| Just a little thin skinned here aren't we. They used to list by name from largest $ down. Lot's of media talking heads , ted turner types & political types. that got shut down & this site come up.
Some others don't like to be embarased either...
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| paul
10-10-2012 11:25:30
76.77.196.231
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to lloyd in sc, 10-10-2012 09:44:38
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| | Still is? Only reason they can list it is because it's _not_ a welfare problem. Farming you put money into your land, put seed and fert into it in the spring, harvest a crop in fall, sell it into the next summer. Livestock are similar - a long term investment with a low payoff. Then the govt comes along with grain embargoes or crop policy changes, and messes up the markets - we don't have 'free' markets with all the policy games of the govt. And we have spent $1000 an acre on inputs to feed the world, and the govt changes policy and the 'free market' now only pays $3 a bu for corn. And all farmers are kaput.... No one could last in farming without some backstop to guard against these govt games. So, some form of govt backstop of bulk commodities is needed by the govt. I'd love it if the govt got out of farming, got out of supporting John Deere, and got out of supporting whatever business you happen to be in. I'd love to operate in a good regulated but truely free market all across the board. But - it isn't ever going to be like that. Govts sink themselves into business, that is their nature. I would find it very odd for agriculture to have to suffer the results of govt intervention, but not get any support whatsoever from govt. Meanwhile, all the other businesses get their tax breaks, snd grants, and infrastructure built up. But - that is what people like JDseller is asking for - basically free food for his face on my dime, while he continues to suck up all the free govt he gets for his roads, his job, housing grants, etc. Yea, that does kinda bug me a bit. :) --->Paul
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| farmallsandcoops
10-10-2012 11:07:31
69.57.203.41
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Re: Government farm payments!!! in reply to lloyd in sc, 10-10-2012 09:44:38
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| | I bet if those of you who work off-farm jobs added up all of what you've made over the last 10-15 years you'd think WOW... and then wonder where the heck it has all gone! Just goes to show, you can make statistics say what you want them to.
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