Author	[Modern View]
MarkB_MI 08-15-2012 02:43:02 75.219.29.52 Report to Moderator	The top public official in Oakland County, Michigan was seriously injured in a car crash this past weekend. His car, driven by a retired state trooper, struck another car in an intersection. The official suffered multiple broken bones, including both wrists, but is expected to make a full recovery. The driver's injuries are apparently more serious. Neither man had fastened his seat belt; apparently they both believed themselves to be above the law. What they failed to take into account is that no one is above the laws of physics. No seat belts [Reply]   [No Email]
Pete76NY 08-16-2012 01:14:09 66.194.51.226 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   That is their business...and/or the Police"s business. Whey would you or anyone else not involved in Law Enforcement worry about who is wearing seat belts except yourself? Actually seat belt laws are an infringement upon personal liberties if you are over the age of 18 then you should be able to make that choice/take that chance. Just like smoking, eating at McDonalds, and wearing helmets. Be aware of the possible outcomes, make your decision and live with it! I would NEVER ride my scoot without a full face helmet, but I"ll defend anyone"s right to do "go nekkid!" We don"t like it when gov"t officials rain down he** on Chick Filet when the CEO speaks out against gay marriage, why should we embrace other government infringements upon our liberties? ...and the worst are those who worry about what others are or are not doing; we recently had an accident locally when a busy body saw a driver using a cell phone and used his cell to call 911 and report it, when they pulled his car out from under the dump truck and opened his car like a soup can to extricate him he said that he felt it was an emergency situation and he felt he should be expempt (cell phone usage while driving in NY is illegal.) He got a cell phone usage ticket, so actually justice was done twice! [Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI 08-16-2012 02:11:24 75.198.84.20 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Pete76NY, 08-16-2012 01:14:09   Pete, why the anger? I guess you missed my point: Newton's Laws of Motion don't really care if your civil liberties are being violated. Now, since you ask why I should care about whether the individuals in question were buckled in, here's why: We have a county official and county employee traveling in a county vehicle on county business. Their injuries will be covered by the county's insurance and Medicare. It will be several months of rehabilitation, paid for by the county's insurance, before they return to work, during which I imagine they will continue to collect county paychecks. Now, if they had just followed the law, like 95 percent of people in our state do, it's likely they would have both walked away from the accident, sparing themselves a lot of pain and sparing the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills. As a citizen, taxpayer and voter, I think I DO have a right to criticize the actions of public officials and employees, particularly when it affects where my tax dollars go. These people are not above the law, whether those laws are man-made or not. [Reply]  [No Email]
B-maniac 08-15-2012 17:31:15 97.85.62.26 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   Ya spose the Man upstairs might just have fired a warning shot?? It happens! Must have some plan for them down here yet. I think they aught to have to do public service speaking at high schools etc. Anyone can pay a ticket. Specially with our tax money. [Reply]  [No Email]
BushogPapa 08-15-2012 11:57:29 173.88.51.117 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   That IS one of our biggest problems...Cops AND Law-Makers who place themselves ABOVE the Law.... Happens everywhere..regularly and across this Nation.. Judges who have a long list of OMVI tickets that have been hidden from the record, Cops let off after Horrible assaults..even murders (on and off Duty)..Congressmen who ALWAYS Exempt their selves from the Laws they pass.... The list goes ON and ON... Ron.. [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 08-15-2012 08:55:22 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   We were told in drivers trainging in 72 that 58,000 people died every years in America. Now I think that number is down around 35,000. Some claim it's seat belts, other better construction of vehicles, better roads ECT. ECT. ECT. I think the biggest single thing has been EMT's. Back when I started driving only the largest cities had EMT's. Called em paramedics back then. Out here in rural MN we only had a volenteer ambulance crew who were allowed to "stop the bleeding and transport". Note I did say the single biggest thing. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-15-2012 09:02:09 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to oldtanker, 08-15-2012 08:55:22   I remember when the the "ambulance" was the hearse from the local funeral home. [Reply]  [No Email]
JMS/.MN 08-15-2012 14:03:42 209.237.107.155 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to rrlund, 08-15-2012 09:02:09   Somehow that seems more efficient. Like when necessary, driver can just make a U-turn. [Reply]  [No Email]
henry0 08-15-2012 08:13:17 24.166.89.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   After reading all the posts, I am still not sure that seat belts are for me. First of all, I have two shoulder replacements and the belts ride on the scars and sometimes make them sore. Could possibly use sleeves over the belts. I also had a friend that was so damaged inside ( liver. spleen, stomach etc) that he died from the seat belt injuries. NOW, I oftime wear the belts at my loved ones insistance but on May 13 2012, on I 71 between Columbus and Cincinatti my loved one was driving our Lincoln at 70 MPH and lost control . We ended up hitting a guard rail headon at that speed. I had no seat belt on, we both got hit by airbags moved the body of the car back 8 inches on the frame and walked away with only a large cut on my arm from the air bag. This is not trying to say that seatbelts are not good, only that they are not always the saviour some think they are. By the way, we are both 80 years old [Reply]  [No Email]
Seat belt 08-15-2012 09:21:08 96.53.210.246 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to henry0, 08-15-2012 08:13:17   Forget seat belts, 80 years old, driving 70 MPH and loosing control? That ranks right up there with drunk driving. Incredible no one was killed! I hope your "loved one" was charged and her license taken away. Wow! can't believe anyone would post something like that. [Reply]  [No Email]
Geezer2386 08-15-2012 16:15:08 74.229.193.24 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 09:21:08   Really this is the biggest problem in America now. Old people kill us every day on the road, plug up the restuarants when the working man gets a half hour break and make it impossible to get in to the doctors office. And then there's the complaints. The only people who need to care if they were wearing a seatbelt are the two who were injured. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bendee 08-15-2012 19:46:32 58.165.7.216 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Geezer2386, 08-15-2012 16:15:08   Quote some accident/age figures to justify. You also fail to comprehend the broader picture.The Police in attendance,The ambulance personnel who could be required somewhere else, the Hospital staff.. The ongoing care necessary.The cost, The relatives. It's not just two people getting hurt, the ramifications are far wider. So just have the truck and skip roll up, throw them in there. A day free from killing on the roads,Spaces now at the restaurant and Doctor's Surgery for the working man. Problem solved. [Reply]  [No Email]
henry0 08-15-2012 13:51:15 24.166.89.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 09:21:08   also, why not use your regular handle? *I guess I would be ashamed too if I spouted off such t5rash. [Reply]  [No Email]
Seat belt 08-15-2012 20:39:57 96.53.210.246 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to henry0, 08-15-2012 13:51:15   The fact is your loved one who is 80 lost control of the car doing 70 MPH and could have very easily killed someone. You can make up excuses and she could be one of the best drivers in the world but it still doesn't change the fact she lost control and had a serious accident. I'm sure the investigators would have considered her age and the speed. Most 80 year olds just do not have the reaction time and reflexes that younger people have. That's not bashing the elderly, it's just a fact. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt. [Reply]  [No Email]
henry0 08-15-2012 13:50:51 24.166.89.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 09:21:08   also, why not use your regular handle? *I guess I would be ashamed too if I spouted off such t5rash. [Reply]  [No Email]
henry0 08-15-2012 13:47:44 24.166.89.230 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 09:21:08   My loved one and I have been driving since we were 14 and were raised up in farm country. First of all, We were in a line of traffic and were almost the slowest on the road. The only one going slower was the car we came up on, she turned on turn signals checked for cars approaching on left, started out and some young woman going at least 85 came up on us with out slowing down, LO over corrected when pulling back in. I believe it was the speeder. I guess that you think all 80 year olds should quit driving on interstates. Why not just put all of us in nursing homes, take away our cars and l;et us die. For that matter I have an Aunt who will be 100 in Oct, still lives alone and drives every day. I guess we should have done away with her 20 yrs ago. By the way, I still fly and work on tractors and occasionly take the boat out in Lake Erie. Also, this is our first serious accident in all these3 years. We also don't drink and drive catchon???? [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 09:26:23 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 09:21:08   Just because you"re 80 doesn"t mean you have diminished capacity. There are a lot of 20 somethings who are far more dangerous than the 80 somethings. [Reply]  [No Email]
scotc 08-15-2012 17:14:48 75.234.182.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 09:26:23   Largely because the 80-somethings know their limits better than the 20-somethings and aren't afraid to admit to them. I rolled a dump truck 7 years ago. When I knew I wasn't getting it back I layed down as best I could so my head wouldn't be near the roof. I got chewed out by a couple friends for not wearing the seatbelt (I'm not sure it even had one, it was built in 79), but if I had been wearing one, I would have been banging my head on the roof instead of falling out the windshield while it was upside down. [Reply]  [No Email]
Seat belt 08-15-2012 10:52:47 96.53.210.246 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 09:26:23   I realize there are bad drivers of all ages but at 80 years old a person does not have the same reflexes they had when they were even 10 years younger. Unless they're Mario Andretti or on a track, an 80 year old shouldn't be driving 70 MPH. Proof is in the serious accident mentioned. [Reply]  [No Email]
JerryS 08-15-2012 11:32:17 98.80.108.237 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Seat belt, 08-15-2012 10:52:47   They were on an interstate highway. So, they should have been driving 45 mph? Also: 80 percent of auto accidents occur at speeds 40 mph or less. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bill(Wis) 08-15-2012 12:04:05 184.75.123.14 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to JerryS, 08-15-2012 11:32:17   "When setting speed limits it is important to have speed limits that the majority of drivers consider reasonable. Studies have shown that most drivers tend to drive at a speed they are comfortable with. Raising or lowering the speed limit does not have a significant effect on speed. However, when the speed limit is set at a level that most drivers consider reasonable the speed of vehicles is more uniform. It is considered safer to have all the vehicles traveling at approximately the same speed. Also, the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) does not want to to set unreasonably low speed limits that would make the average driver a law breaker." If "seat belt" has a problem with this he should take it up with ODOT Planning and Engineering. [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-15-2012 06:46:51 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   Well........remember when Stabenow's hubby got caught with that hooker that he found on craigslist? She got hauled off for it,he got a parking ticket. [Reply]  [No Email]
Blackhole49 08-15-2012 06:01:56 71.227.8.100 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   Normally Brooks is drunk also. He must not have started yet. [Reply]  [No Email]
Spook 08-15-2012 05:22:21 99.18.30.68 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   Brooksie has been above the law for years. The "King" of Oakland county. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 05:17:46 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   I am a testament to seat belts. In August, 1980, I was driving a VW Rabbit home from the grocery store and was stopped at a red light. At that time, they were one of the few cars where the seat belt and shoulder strap were one piece like they are today. I was hit from behind by a 1 ton Chevy Van. The impact was so great it knocked me into the vehicle in front of me, a 1980 something that was a "land barge". I don"t tailgate, either. There was at least one car length between us. The lady driving that car did not have her seat belt on. The van hit me so hard that when I hit her, the impact was enough that she went into the windshield and broke the windshield with her head. I do have whiplash, but when they were able to get my car door open, I walked away. My car was literally crushed. If I had not been wearing my seat belt & shoulder harness my injuries would have been severe or even killed me. The only time I don"t wear a seat belt is driving the work truck on the farm property. Otherwise, my vehicle doesn"t even move until its fastened. [Reply]  [No Email]
bill mart 08-15-2012 13:09:09 69.204.65.189 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:17:46   wouldnt a hit from behind have driven the lady back into the seat?. Bill [Reply]  [No Email]
GeneMO 08-15-2012 09:04:51 71.1.115.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:17:46   You are lucky, even with a seat belt i would think a VW anything would be a death trap. Gene [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 09:15:59 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to GeneMO, 08-15-2012 09:04:51   Remember that was 30 yrs ago. The Rabbit had a good safety reputation then. It was also a diesel which may have helped. Still have the crash photos. Amazing that I walked away. It was a great car and got 50 mpg. The biggest factor - God's hand. It wasn't my time. [Reply]  [No Email]
Deere47 08-15-2012 08:50:13 152.119.255.250 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:17:46   Me, too. I was driving my Dodge Cummins pickup in white out conditions on 401 in Canada, and a Mack truck had just jack-knifed in front of me. There was no time to react, so I hit that Mack smack on in the rear. Another mack that was tailgating me then hit me from behind. The thing that saved me was I was driving the Cummins, and that heavy engine block took the front impact and the heavy frame took the hit from the back. These both were fully loaded macks, 18-wheelers. Bent my truck into a C-shape and it took them 2 hours to cut me out. But I walked away without a scratch. Needless to say, I was on the phone to the Dodge Dealer to order a replacement exactly the same. That Cummins saved my life. [Reply]  [No Email]
Goose 08-15-2012 06:39:42 70.198.5.36 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:17:46   My wife was in a head-on collision (not of her creation) several years ago. Thanks to the air bag and belts she walked away from it. Law officers at the scene said if it hadn't been for the bag and belts there was no way she could have survived. About a week later, from the top of her left shoulder to her right hip, and across her stomach, she had a 5" wide band that was the darkest purple I've ever seen on a person from the belts digging in. She did eventually have to have one knee scoped from hitting the dash beside the steering column, but that was minor considering what the outcome might have been. [Reply]  [No Email]
NCWayne 08-15-2012 06:34:45 69.40.232.132 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:17:46   I too was in a serious wreck where my seat belt kept me from being seriously injured. Guy was passing in the center of a long S curve and came out of it sideways, crossing the center line. He hit me head on with the passanger side of his car. It pushed the door to the console and the front of my F150 back to far it buckled the floor pans under my feet. He was seriously inujured and was bleeding from his ears, nose, mouth, etc. so they airlifted him out. I walked away with some bruising across my chest from the belt. In this case, yes, I feel the belt saved my life. On the other hand I was also in an accident where the vehicle I was towing hit some road debris while I was in a hard curve going into a rest area. The debris kicked the front tires of the towed vehicle into a left turn. The end result was my truck lying on it's side and the towed vehicle jacknifed and lying on it's top, with the tow bar still attached to both vehicles. This was in the '80's and I rarely wore a seat belt back then. My only injury was a skint arm where it caught some asphalt becuase the drivers side window was open and my upper arm was longer than from the steering wheel to the ground. As far as statistics go, yes I believe seatbelts can save lives, but I think the percentages are all way off. I say this because if someone has a wreck, doesn't get seriously injured, and aren't wearing their seatbelt, do you seriously think they are going to admit to the cop they weren't wearing it and get a ticket.....especially if the wreck wasn't their fault. As a result I think the stats are way off as there are alot of people walking around after a wreck, not seriously injured, that weren't wearing their belt but, because they didn't want a ticket, the police report tells statiticians they were. Just my .02 based on experience............. [Reply]  [No Email]
joe fabregas 08-15-2012 04:40:21 12.75.112.34 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   I read somewhere that 50% of the people that die in car accidents are not wearing their seat belts. How did I ever live to this age without them? Everyone around here has a cell phone to their ear when they're driving, including cops & town officials. Go figure- joe [Reply]  [No Email]
bison 08-15-2012 11:03:24 69.168.144.141 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to joe fabregas, 08-15-2012 04:40:21   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThat must mean that the other 50% of people that die in car accidents do wear seatbelts. So were is the benefit? [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 08-15-2012 06:10:36 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to joe fabregas, 08-15-2012 04:40:21   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see So that means that 50% of people who die in car wrecks were wearing seat belts.???? Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
Philt 08-16-2012 03:30:25 166.137.88.39 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to oldtanker, 08-15-2012 06:10:36   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThe other 50% were not wearing helmets. [Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI 08-15-2012 06:39:17 198.208.251.23 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to oldtanker, 08-15-2012 06:10:36   Tanker, The percentage of fatalities where the person wasn't buckled in is actually 63 percent. When you consider that seat belt usage is around 85 percent, you end up with the sobering statistic that 15 percent of vehicle occupants account for over 60 percent of fatalities. [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy Shafer 08-15-2012 10:30:08 173.184.76.130 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 06:39:17   I don't care how many bags or seat belts you have on. With some of today's cars. You are going to get hurt or killed. Have you ever seen the smart car. No way would I get into one of those things.Same with the Fiats I have seen. A cracker box on wheels. [Reply]  [No Email]
WGWKy2 08-15-2012 03:21:22 98.23.51.198 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 02:43:02   O...K...Who hit the tractor? [Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI 08-15-2012 03:45:47 75.219.29.52 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to WGWKy2, 08-15-2012 03:21:22   >Who hit the tractor? Oh, well, that would be these two people, whose brief physics lesson made a definite impression...in their skulls. No helmets [Reply]  [No Email]
Dick2 08-15-2012 03:52:29 174.26.218.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to MarkB_MI, 08-15-2012 03:45:47   Read the headline on the 2nd story-- couldn't figure out why the tractor was supposed to be wearing helmets. I have a minor in journalism; I'd have never let a headline like that get printed in the paper. [Reply]  [No Email]
TomH in Pa 08-15-2012 04:40:42 67.235.10.94 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Dick2, 08-15-2012 03:52:29   Apparently to protect it from kamikaze motorcycle attacks. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nebraska Cowman 08-15-2012 04:18:39 66.252.125.47 Report to Moderator	Re: Above the law? in reply to Dick2, 08-15-2012 03:52:29   LOL, good one. On my little stretch of highway there have been several bad accidents. At least two of them fatal. I don't go out of the yard without my seatbelt on. [Reply]  [No Email]