Author	[Modern View]
jimva 08-14-2012 22:05:26 96.240.174.95 Report to Moderator	Thought I would share this craigs list announcment from horse hay buyer expert. Date: 2012-08-14, 9:40PM EDT When you go buy hay always ask what kind of fertilizer has gone on the fields. Bio Solids, sludge or whatever you want to call it is human waste from big cities like Wash. D.C. . Poultry litter, Turkey crap is also widely used. In some areas liquid hog manure is used. Then there is granular chemical feritlizer from the farm coops etc. Generally horses don't like the taste of any of them. But if its all they got to eat they will eat it. I am not saying the seller of the hay you bought has used any of the mentioned fertilizer. Just be well informed about hay growing. [Reply]   [No Email]
JML755 08-15-2012 10:57:46 97.78.165.183 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to 504, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   Just to weigh in on this topic, I can understand why "horse people" can be picky about their feed. We own a horse and the barn where we keep it has close to 60 horses stabled there. We take the entire crop of a local farmer. Thousands of bales per year. Hay barn is about 40x50x20, filled to the brim and overflow goes into a 80x20x20 section of the riding arena. Whenever a new horse comes to the barn, the owner brings some hay from the previous barn. Colic is a very serious condition for a horse, I have personally seen a number of them die from it in the last couple of years. So people who have a lot invested in them are rightly concerned about what goes into their horse's stomach. That is no excuse for being rude or expecting delivery of a couple of bales 50 miles for a few bucks. Horses will eat what they want and avoid the rest. Just hand graze them in a field and you'll see how picky they can be. And if you don't want to deal with "horse people", just don't sell to them. Otherwise, state your price, tell them it is "as-is", let them load it, take their money, call it a day. [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY 08-15-2012 12:03:51 67.248.100.3 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to JML755, 08-15-2012 10:57:46   Its a good point you made in this post. For whatever reason, colic is an extremely serious concern, I can attest to this by all the years of dealing with thoroughbreds. I do know the funky/eccentric types, in the equine world, that stigma will never leave and I swore when I was a kid, that some of the people I saw at shows were absolutely the strangest, my opinion though, yet instinct was always right, many of the male trainers, seem to have an affinity for their own gender, will leave it at that. Anyone who deals in hay around here experiences the odd ones with eccentric ways, and or analysis of hay etc. We have always been sensible, but the concern is real, you do not fool with feed when it comes to horses. We try to feed the best hay that can be found, afforded or is available. Years back we did all our own hay and alfalfa, never bought, so we know whats involved, many people in the equine community do not. I like to know and see the fields the hay comes from, what the crop looks like, nice to see it on the ground before baling, easy way to know what you are getting, even better, have someone run the baler and stack from a kicker if you want to see whats what, I used to do that myself. Horses we've had do seem to pick over undesirable things but when feeding, I look over each pad of hay when handling, checking for mold or dust. We have one horse with a respiratory ailment, have to wet the hay for him. Colic can be fatal, so that 6 year investment into a jumper could literally be doused in gasoline and lit up, then there those that require surgery, they're never right or look right after and there is recovery time, re-sale depreciation because of it. The worst is when one colics and you have to scramble to get the horse to a facility like Cornell, a few hours west of us, 3 feet of snow on the trailer roof, tires and wheel bearings to check out, truck with a lot of miles on it, trans slips, theres only 3 of you, one has health issues, can't help, and you live 30 miles away, planned on going home that night, its 0 degrees F out vet says he has to go to Cornell, or he's done, this horse was our best prospect too. Try to walk in arena sand in heavy winter boots and you have a 1600 lb + horse that wants to go down, someone, (me) had to walk him and crack the whip to keep him up and you know he was in a lot of pain. He made it because of our diligence, but never again, truck and trailer are ready 24 hrs, always on site, what an experience, vet flat out said if you guys did not do what you did, he'd have been done, thankfully no surgery, thats a lot of time and money down the drain, you have to eliminate feed contributing to this. I am not sure but this guy is prone to colic, large body cavity, he rolls completely from one side to another, the pipes could get tangled is what they figure, so I was extremely careful anytime I saw him roll like that, would always work him, get him fired up to run around and settle things, might be wives tale type solution, colic is something I truly hate about horses. [Reply]  [No Email]
paul 08-15-2012 11:47:38 76.77.199.122 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to JML755, 08-15-2012 10:57:46   No fun in that, tho. You gotta admit, "horse people" are often a very special breed all their own. :) Read the initial message again, and explain to me how a person is supposed to grow "horse hay"? :) --->Paul [Reply]  [No Email]
Diydave 08-15-2012 09:48:30 96.244.155.63 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I sell about 100 small round bales a year, mostly to PITA horse people. Like others have said, they b itch about everything, and try to pay you with a rubber check. In my craigs list ad, I clearly state cash only, no delivery, no negotiations. They still try, though, it's like the rules of gravity don't apply to me, cause I own a horse! And every property, I have been to to look at for pasture renovation, what I see is gross animal overpopulation, soil erosion, and most of the time emaciated and poor condition horses, that look like they are part of a hoarder's collection. It's a good thing I only have to deal with them about 4 months a year! [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-15-2012 11:36:17 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to Diydave, 08-15-2012 09:48:30   Tell me about it! I don't generally even sell hay,but the horses that belong to a guy up the road were so starved one time that they ate right through a board fence. He came here asking if I'd please sell him a few round bales for them. Trying to be a nice guy,I went and got two nice ones right out of the barn. The second one that I put in his trailer had been on the bottom and had some gravel stuck to it. When I sat it down,he said "Can I have a different one? That one's got dirt on it.". I never wanted to knock somebody on their azz so bad in all my life. [Reply]  [No Email]
dave2 08-15-2012 13:11:52 79.240.153.36 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to rrlund, 08-15-2012 11:36:17   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see That's when you shoulda just unloaded the other one and told him to get off your place.... Betcha didn't do it tho.... Same with all these other heros that badmouth "horse people" when all they had to do was set em straight up front and stick to it (assuming that they weren't trying to screw em in the first place)...... Stereotyping and name calling just shows your ignorance......... Bet alot of folks'll have em in a wad over this response... but it sure does suck when things come back atcha..... [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-15-2012 14:53:12 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to dave2, 08-15-2012 13:11:52   I felt sorry for the horses,not the owner. [Reply]  [No Email]
GeneMO 08-15-2012 09:17:05 71.1.115.9 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   No offence to anyone, but I wont mess with selling hay to "horse people" It just aint worth the hassel. They want a bale or two at a time. They have to squeeze it in the back seat of their volvo, or strap it to the top. Or they can't understand why you wont deliver it 50 miles round trip and put it in the barn for them. All for the same price you would ask for picked up in the field. Or they want it delivered on a Saturday afternoon and then aren't there when they say they will be. They complain about the littlest stuff, and in general are just a pain in the butt. Gene [Reply]  [No Email]
dave2 08-15-2012 08:57:07 79.240.153.36 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I've got (had) 18 rolls of the ugliest, most unappetizing hay you ever saw... Got drizzled on a couple times and laid awhile. Was gonna ask the neighbor to take it for his cows and just give me 9 rolls of his. Had one setting next to a pasture and one of the "good rolls" in the feeder. Horses werev reaching over the fence eating the ugly stuff... Started feeding it and they run thru it like candy... [Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY 08-15-2012 08:37:58 67.248.100.3 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   Just the term "horse people", "horse hay" etc., to me is humorous, have a horse ? well you're a horse person that needs horse hay...... In early summer of '09 after the first cutting, we fertilized a nice size field with a good stand of hay grasses, when cut and raked just before labor day, the windrows rivaled that of the first cut. Seeing this, I decided to take a few hundred in small squares, so we hooked up the NH 315 in addition the JD round baler already on another tractor, I baled up 500 or so small squares of the lush 2nd cut, sure smelled fine, when fed, the horses ate it just fine, more like a treat, none of the 17 horses said anything about fertilizer taste ! Nothing like 2nd cut orchard and timothy grasses, smells sweet when you cut it, fertilizer or not. [Reply]  [No Email]
Scotc 08-15-2012 17:34:26 75.234.182.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to Billy NY, 08-15-2012 08:37:58   There are people who have horses, and then there are horse people. You can tell them apart by how much money they spend on them. Old buckets, used equipment, carrhartts and work or LaCrosse boots, don't try to get you to deliver and stack for the in-the-field price? People with horses. $30 buckets, brand new equipment, frilly jackets, tip-toe-ing around mud puddles in their cowboy boots- horse people. A friend went to a farm sale and his sister met him there because there were horses. She had one picked out, they would start at 1500+, drop to around 5-600, then run them back up around 1500-1700. He yelled "over here" when they got down to 900 for the first bid, everyone looked at him in his cow-crapped-on Carrhartts, standing in the middle of a mud puddle, and NO ONE would bid against him. They brought the horse back, looked at him, and still no more bids. Cheapest horse of the day. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike (WA) 08-15-2012 08:37:25 69.10.199.107 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I remember telling my dad one time when I came in from the barn, "The horse doesn't like the new hay." Dad replied, "He'll like it better tomorrow." And he did! My dad was a smart guy. So what are you supposed to fertilize with? I think Mr. Horse Expert pretty well eliminated the field. They probably wouldn't like hay fertilized with the horse hooey he's slinging, either. [Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund 08-15-2012 06:49:28 207.241.137.116 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   Any jackwad the got all "expert" with me about garbage like would be getting "informed" about letting his dammed hayburners starve to death! [Reply]  [No Email]
Dick L 08-15-2012 06:37:39 184.8.54.44 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I been out talking to my horses. None of the eight told me anything about the taste of different hay they eat. When the feeder is empty and I take a bale out to them they do try to say something although I haven't figured it out. They do try to grab a mouth full when I am taking it to the feeder regardless of what it was fertlized with. I have a couple that do get vocal when I feed them their oats and sweet feed. Still can't figure out what they are saying about the flaver but they do seem very excited. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NEIL 08-15-2012 07:19:18 76.203.23.48 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to Dick L, 08-15-2012 06:37:39   Mine talk to me too...this morning when I went out to feed some oats, I walked behind our quarter horse and asked if he"d like some oats. He raised his tail and said "afew"! [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 05:55:47 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   "Generally horses don't like the taste of any of them." He's correct. No animal is going to eat any type of UNAPPLIED fertilizer. While I'm somewhat knowledgeable about hay, I've never heard of fertilizers affecting the "flavor" after being absorbed by the forage. I will check it out with my ag agent. I do know that forage harvested in the afternoon has a higher sugar content which most livestock like. I could see where a liquid fertilizer would affect the taste if the hay was harvested shortly after application. But why would you apply a liquid fertilizer or any type of fertilizer and harvest the forage before it had a chance to be absorbed by the forage? Yes, I'm picky about my horse hay. I have to be. What's suitable for cattle isn't always suitable for horses. In the early years before I knew much about hay, bad hay cost me $$$ in vet bills. But I'm not a whack job by any means. [Reply]  [No Email]
rhouston 08-15-2012 08:59:43 166.248.10.81 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to Nancy Howell, 08-15-2012 05:55:47   "No animal is going to eat any type of UNAPPLIED fertilizer" I don"t know Nancy Ive seen the dogs eat UNAPPLIED kitty fertilizer lots of times. LOL [Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS 08-15-2012 13:23:58 216.118.158.123 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to rhouston, 08-15-2012 08:59:43   And cows.... neighbours had a cow eat better part of a 55# bag of fertilizer one time. I forget the blend... It lived. They all go after the salt taste. Rod [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 09:28:39 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to rhouston, 08-15-2012 08:59:43   LOL! Me, too. Since cat food is higher in protein and richer than dog food, what comes out the other end is appetizing (yuck) to dogs. [Reply]  [No Email]
LazyWP 08-15-2012 05:47:34 184.20.74.98 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I find it kinda strange that there are lots of horses that "won't" eat this or that. As a kid, our horses always got the poorest feed we had. Yes we used the horses, and used them hard. Most of the time we had 5 to 10 head around. Today, I still have 8 to 10 head of horses around, and they still don't get real high quality hay. I do try to feed them better then Dad fed his, but they are still a horse, and they get whatever I feed them, and they still get used hard. In the last 2 weeks, I have been horseback over 8 hours a day, and my horses are still going strong, getting whatever I feed them! [Reply]  [No Email]
JRSutton 08-15-2012 05:26:39 75.130.109.233 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   You know - I really wonder if horses aren't slowly being evolved in a way that will actually MAKE them as picky as their owners feel they are. After years and years of this nonsense, it's got to have an impact on the species. If somebody were smart, they'd invent horse spoons for spoon feeding horses. (though something tells me they already exist). [Reply]  [No Email]
twopop 08-15-2012 04:56:54 209.183.51.62 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   look at those horses a//es sitting atop those horses [Reply]  [No Email]
northvale-PA 08-15-2012 04:21:36 71.114.135.247 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   so, the way I read this is ALL fertilizer is bad. So, what do plants grow from? 100 years of AG research must be all wrong and that guy is the real genius. Say, he could be our next president with a mind like that. [Reply]  [No Email]
Traditional Farmer 08-15-2012 03:07:38 67.233.70.253 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   I live in the area these nut cases have their horses they're pretty well whacked out,but there is an up side one of them I know gave me about 200 bales of the best hay you'd ever want because it smelled a little 'stale' to her and she couldn't let her 'babies' eat it. [Reply]  [No Email]
wisbaker 08-14-2012 22:41:45 207.118.144.43 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   The bio-solids from waste water plants are often wasted RAS (Return activated sludge). In English the waste water plant has bacteria that eat most of the human waste and they pump the bacteria out as a sludge and let it die, that's the sludge from a waste water plant the bacteria are the "digesters" of the plant.. Many plants actually burn the waste sludge and organic matter. They do take and screen, weir or settle the inflow for solids but a lot of what's removed is sand, rocks, other inorganic solids and plain garbage. This sounds like some of the veggi-organic-natural fanatics at work. Hmm I wonder if I would have to get the DNR to keep deer of the hay fields to make the hay acceptable to them. I wonder if they pasture their horses, you know horses poop in their pastures, I wonder if that give the grass a taste the horses don't like. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Macfarlane 08-15-2012 14:16:39 142.166.168.2 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to wisbaker, 08-14-2012 22:41:45   There is a point, there's a limit to the municpal solid waste you can spread on ground as the metals can accumulate in plant tissue. Not sure about all the other chemicals in msw, they cause problems for drinking water treatment, not sure if application to the soil breaks down heart pills and other medications. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nancy Howell 08-15-2012 05:31:25 144.162.48.67 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to wisbaker, 08-14-2012 22:41:45   Yes it does. Grass growing in poop pile is bitter. If there is enough other forage neither cattle or horses will eat it. Because the grass growing in a poop pile is bitter it helps reduce parasite infestation. Parasites (worm eggs, etc.)are passed in the manure. Because the grass growing in the manure is bitter, the grazing animal doesn't eat it and pick up parasites. Eventually, the bitterness fades and the grazing animals will eat the grass. Generally, by that time the parasite eggs/larvae are no longer viable. That's why you see clumps of grass in a pasture that haven't been eaten. I know manure is spread on pastures as fertilizer, but its been spread and is not in a concentrated pile. [Reply]  [No Email]
dave2 08-14-2012 22:14:52 79.240.153.36 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to jimva, 08-14-2012 22:05:26   same person prolly has an ad selling the perfect horse hay also....... [Reply]  [No Email]
1130Leo 08-15-2012 05:02:03 12.188.165.254 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to dave2, 08-14-2012 22:14:52   Just yet another tree hugging environment whack job trying to con someone into buying their supreme, all natural, organic hay for $20.00 for each small square bale that likely weighs about 35 pounds.... Have to give them credit though, there are definately some people out there that would be dumb enough to believe all of it. I could care less what type of fertilizer they use, I will not buy round up ready hay, nor will I buy hay that has preservative on it, other than that, it"s all hay... No Dust or Mold is the only important factors. [Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NEIL 08-15-2012 07:30:38 76.203.23.48 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to 1130Leo, 08-15-2012 05:02:03   I use "silo guard sulpher preservative on my hay, but even acid preservative dosen't hurt the animals one bit. My neice is head of the equine program at Iowa U. in Ames and EVERY bale of hay they buy is treated with proponic. Her docterate is in animal nutrition. Call her up and argue why preservitave is no good for horses! I would rather preservative than mold any day... Larry NEIL [Reply]  [No Email]
KEH 08-15-2012 05:42:04 209.213.30.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to 1130Leo, 08-15-2012 05:02:03   What hay crop is Round up ready? KEH [Reply]  [No Email]
Cliff Nelson 08-15-2012 05:49:20 96.60.120.179 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to KEH, 08-15-2012 05:42:04   Alfalfa can be roundup ready. Been available for a few years now. [Reply]  [No Email]
KEH 08-15-2012 06:13:09 209.213.30.15 Report to Moderator	Re: Horse People in reply to Cliff Nelson, 08-15-2012 05:49:20   O K, thanks, I don't grow alfalfa as it does not do well here and is high maintenance. In SC. KEH [Reply]  [No Email]