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Discussion Forum

OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching??

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Jiles

06-20-2012 04:15:15
71.207.185.111



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I asked this question on three different home improvement forums. Really surprised that I have not received a single suggestion---

I am planning to build a 14 x 24 Deck. I want it to be built as close to code as possible and I am confused.

I have never built an outdoor deck but I am certinally not new to home construction. I have done much research on deck building and have found conflicting information or information that I may not fully understand.

One example is that acording to code, I cannot connect a joist to both sides of my header

For strength, I would like to install a double header and use 7' joist on either side of the header.

Why can I not do this when a home built this way

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jackinok

06-21-2012 07:25:08
162.58.82.136



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
hey jiles,If you absolutly need head room,you might consider post and beam construction for you frame,instead of using stick built type construction. using 4x4 beams every couple of feet instead of 2x lumber. laid on low concrete pads that would make a solid stable deck i would think.



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Jiles

06-20-2012 17:24:57
71.207.185.111



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
You people never cease to amaze me--15 post with good information, and not a single one from the people on other forums that might could have.

I am always reluctant to post OT but I always include OT in my title.

THANKS for helping again!

I have decided to have the deck freestanding and will use 14' joist and will give extra support by placing them ON TOP of an identical beam supported by 4 posts.

The center header will reduce my storage headroom, under the deck, but I can duck!!!

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36 coupe

06-20-2012 15:36:55
66.186.169.176



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
Jiles,Get the permit if required.You can be forced to tear down a deck built with out a permit .I was building inspector for 15 years here.Very simple ordinance.I helped stand up walls, showed people how to fix mistakes.Hauled lumber when they ran out.You can be charged double for after the fact permits.I was able to represent the town in court.A good building inspector is your best friend.Fishing license costs 20 bucks here,Fishing with out a license costs 200 bucks in court.The post was pulled that said dont get a permit.

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Jiles

06-20-2012 13:22:11
71.207.185.111



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Duner Wi, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Thanks--very good explaination.



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jackinok

06-20-2012 11:41:49
162.58.82.136



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
the answer to your question about the header is this,your house uses more than likely a sill plate.or a 2x8 laying flat on top of your footing/foundation.the actual weight of the structure above that point is totally supported there. the nails in your floor joist ends simply keep them upright and are NOT load bearing.by looking at that you can understand how end nailing a board into a center beam would make the nails the load bearing members.( this is what makes your deck move by the way)by putting a beam UNDER your full length joists IT becomes the supporting member.to put a double plate down the center would again require a sill plate of some type to hold the joist ends with posts under it,or nails would become supporting again,or more simply put it would be like cutting your deck in two lenghth wise and wiring it together with baling wire.think of it this way,by putting a header down the middle like you want to unsupported in any way ,you are building basically two decks,one at the house,one at the outside posts.without any support in the center both are simply cantelivered off thier supports and stepping in the center is like having a seven foot long nail puller.much better to use lumber full length of the width of your deck because its supported on each end. bottom line,always build so nails/fasteners are not load bearing in any way.if you have any doubt about a 2x6 spanning 14' simply go with 2x8.in fact according to my handy dandy pocket reference guide,to get the support needed for a fourteen foot span you will have to use 2x8 ,16" oc,and thats with a live load of only 30lb per foot with it being fully sheathed with flooring on top.IF you were strictly going by the book of course.if your planning to use 2x6 it would have to be center supported.
live load =movable loads such as furniture,wind ,snow etc.

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jackinok

06-20-2012 09:27:57
162.58.82.136



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
i dont understand why you would need a center beam,with properly sized lumber and a fourteen ft span,BUT the THEORY behind not having a joist running both ways is that one or the other would have to be toe nailed reducing its strength.If of course they were evenly spaced.two headers,with joists end nailed through then nailed together simply would make it stronger.As far as tying to the house goes,done properly it doesnt hurt,not done properly causes all sorts of problems.The main one is water infiltration into the joint causing rot in both structures.the PROPER way to tie onto your house would be to remove any siding etc down to the framing structure or outside sheathing.install your connecting lumber,whatever that may be,then install a flashing under the remaining siding,over the top and side of your header.this keeps moisture from collecting between the new deck header and the house. of course,having your deck frestanding eliminates these problems also,but its sometimes not feasable to do that,such as with a cantelivered deck,one built over an existing concrete slab that you would have to penetrate or remove to add support posts etc.the decision to have a freestanding or attatched deck is quite often determined by site requirements.

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omahagreg

06-20-2012 09:18:40
174.253.134.41



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
I was building a deck, with permit, and the house next door was getting a new roof, without permit! I called for a footing inspection, and the roofer got in trouble! Could have been me in trouble, if the roofer had the permit, and I hadn't!



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Jiles

06-20-2012 09:00:55
71.207.185.111



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
In my particular case---attachment to the house is for lateral stability. All bearing weight will be on 6x6 posts.

According to code, a deck ledger should not be supported by connection to a brick veneer wall.



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wile E

06-20-2012 08:47:09
173.162.59.145



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
I have built 5 outdoor decks. All my decks are still standing. All my decks were built in the late 90s and the last one was built in 2004.

I have NEVER attached a deck to a house. NEVER. I have always had the deck within an inch of the house and had 2x10 sleeper joists 2 feet away from the house.

Yes, use a double joist. Never extend a live joist more than 3 times the height over the sleeper joist. IE: A 2x6 is 5.5" tall, dont go more than 15" over the sleeper. When in doubt always upgrade the wood to a bigger size. (dont cheat yourself) And NEVER pull a permit to build a deck.......Screw the building inspector and the tax man.

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davemk

06-20-2012 09:07:13
76.177.185.150



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to wile E, 06-20-2012 08:47:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I agree, I would never attach a deck to the house. I have two on my house, neither are attached.



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36 coupe

06-20-2012 14:58:58
66.186.169.176



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to davemk, 06-20-2012 09:07:13  
Son just took down and old deck that was attached to the house.There is some rot to repair.Same goes for wooden steps.



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Wile E

06-20-2012 08:49:56
173.162.59.145



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to wile E, 06-20-2012 08:47:09  
Forgot to mention that I have 2 sets of support poles, 9 for the column load and 4 for the shear load. The shear load beams are in the ground and the column load beams are on post anchors.



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Jiles

06-20-2012 05:47:01
71.207.185.111



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
For a little further explaination---My deck will be "floating" and also secured to my home. The deck will extend out, from the house, a distance of 14'. The outer header (beam) will be supported by 4 --6x6 post 8 foot apart. My needs require me to attach the joist to the side of the beam, not mounted on top.

Would it not be more stable, and stronger to have an identical supporting beam midway of the 14' span? This center beam would also be supported by 4 post.

If so, this would require me to attach each end of the 7' long joist on both sides of the center beam.

This is what is in question.

I don't desire to "overbuild" but we entertain a lot and I desire strength.

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KF

06-20-2012 09:59:25
165.252.92.98



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 05:47:01  
I have a 14 ft deck somewhat like you are describing. I ran 14 ft joists from the wall header to the outside header. Use metal attaching hardware rather than just toe-nailing them. Then I added a center support beam of double 2x6's under the joists. Makes it very strong and less trouble than putting a center header board in.



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casecollectorsc

06-20-2012 07:48:11
173.27.65.36



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 05:47:01  
When building decks, I leave them free standing. I don't attach to the house. Drill the post holes and put cement around the post. Some are over 20 tears old and still true and level!!



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dpendzic

06-20-2012 05:16:50
24.191.49.134



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
Many of the decks I have designed I have used Tico hangers to hang the joists. If the span is too long for the joist I put a support header midspan underneath the joists, this makes it a continuous beam and is much stiffer than a simply supported joist. I have also used Ledger beams to support the joists at the house end. For lateral support I always fasten the joists to the house--it is amazing how much a deck can move out with a crowd of people moving about on it. Many codes require the support columns not only to go into the ground for a certain distance but to also have a concrete footing.

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ex 450 Owner

06-20-2012 05:01:39
173.190.161.118



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  

The joists must be supported by a beam; the beam must be supported by posts, or posts and piers that reach below the frost line for your locality.

I do not like to attach to the house, I like to run another beam close to the house and allow the deck to” float”

In our area most of the big box lumber yards have a program on computers where you can design a deck yourself.



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rustyfarmall

06-20-2012 05:32:33
67.55.162.174



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to ex 450 Owner, 06-20-2012 05:01:39  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The deck that WAS on my house was not attached to the house. It never was stable, and always rocked and wobbled just a bit when someone walked across it. I ripped that one off, built a new deck that IS attached to the house, and it is solid as a rock.



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36 coupe

06-20-2012 15:07:49
66.186.169.176



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-20-2012 05:32:33  
You will get rot on the house..



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RodInNS

06-20-2012 04:29:53
216.118.158.123



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 Re: OT---Outdoor Deck Joist attaching?? in reply to Jiles, 06-20-2012 04:15:15  
Generally the joists are attached to the house on the inner end using steel hanger brackets so a header is not required on that end. If you do that tho... the outer end needs to be supported on sono tubes that are placed below frost...

It might be worthwhile for you to just contact your local building inspector and find out what they require.

Rod



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