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Amish buggies and visibility???

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I always get a kick outta when someone posts sumpin about sumpin or somone (or group) and it's automatically jumped in by the experts and "they're all alike".... Anyway, just got this pic from somone following an Amish buggy in PA. I say Amish, but I guess it could be one of the other groups.... I remember seeing just as many lights/reflectors on buggies in Ohio...

7680.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 03:17:28 05/07/12) Driving near Lewistown, PA, yesterday, we saw two 'white' buggies. That's a new one to me.
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They better not drive them things when it's snowin.....The nonbelievers'll get em in a wad :shock:
 
Many are not well marked. Others may have a SMV like triangle made of white reflective tape. One group around here likes to use kerosene lanterns in front of a tail light lens on either side of vehicle. Visible for 50 feet if you"re lucky. All depends on the local group and what the bishop will approve. Have seen everything from well reflectorized to basic black. Even saw a cople with battery operated red LED flashing lights. Wish they could drive up behind their rigs at night and see what WE see.
 
Kentucky Supreme Court recently ruled in favor of several Amish who were fined, and subsequently arrested for contempt of court when the refused to use SMV emblems on their buggies. Their position is, the bright orange SMV emblems are "too flashy" and violate their religious beliefs. They will now be allowed to use roads without the SMV emblems, instead using white reflectors/tape. White or black are the only acceptable colors in the eyes of the Amish. We have several fatal accidents involving Amish buggies on Ky roads every year.

It's my own personal opinion that failure to use the SMV emblem is much akin to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. If you're that dense, go right ahead. (Over 2/3rds of FATAL motorcycle accidents in KY involve riders NOT wearing helmets) However, I'm somewhat pleased to see ANY court upholding the right of personal choice. That said, if I go on the road with a black buggy, I'm hanging SMV emblems all over it. My choice.
 
The one thing you see from Amish that you don't from most of the rest of the population is personal RESPONSIBILITY.

They take responsibility for the choices they make.

In these fatal buggy accidents, do you see the Amish suing the guy that hit them, the maker of the car that hit them, the manufacturer of the tires on the car, the buggy builder, the horse breeder, the local town government? NO!

"Normal" people would be suing anyone remotely connected to the accident. "Normal" people would be crying to their government "There ought to be a law!" no matter what side they're from.

The Amish at least seem to take responsibility. It's their fault they got hit, they know it, and they don't try to pass the blame.
 
I have a problem with the no smv or lights because it violates their beliefs. Every accident also involves a car that is driven by someone else.Maybe the Amish accept the blame but what about the other driver? Would it mess with your mind if you killed or injured several people because you couldn't see them.Such accidents cause lots of problems even if you are not at fault.A Christian should go out of their way and do everything possible to prevent accidents and look out for other people.
 
Lots of difference around here. Some Amish are almost totally unmarked and almost impossible to see. Others are well marked and use SMV signs and head/tail lights. I'm OK with the Amish deciding for themselves what they will do, but it's not fair to saddle a driver with guilt for the consequences of an accident that easily could have been prevented with lights that would be required of the rest of us. Just my opinion.
 
I've always felt that areas of the country where there is frequent slow moving trafic whether it is a Amish buggy or tractor the state should make a wide enough sholder on the roadway for the slow traffic. Many places in the country have wide open spaces where you can easily see a slow vehicle the road there now are fine. Then there are places where it is wooded, road twists and turns or hilly where you can come up on a slow vehicle before you can attempt to stop. One time I was driving on a hilly road in Kentucky and came over a hill and there was someone with a small garden tractor poking along and I couldn't stop in time. I had to make a sudden choice to pass the tractor and before I could get around the tractor a Greyhound Buss was coming over the next hill head on at me. Fortunately I made it back in my lane in time but it was real close. Years later I came up on a similar situation but the guy on this tractor had a pole 10' to 12' long with a bright flag on it so I was able to know he was there before I was 50' behind him.
 
(quoted from post at 04:44:11 05/08/12) I've always felt that areas of the country where there is frequent slow moving trafic whether it is a Amish buggy or tractor the state should make a wide enough sholder on the roadway for the slow traffic. Many places in the country have wide open spaces where you can easily see a slow vehicle the road there now are fine. Then there are places where it is wooded, road twists and turns or hilly where you can come up on a slow vehicle before you can attempt to stop. One time I was driving on a hilly road in Kentucky and came over a hill and there was someone with a small garden tractor poking along and I couldn't stop in time. I had to make a sudden choice to pass the tractor and before I could get around the tractor a Greyhound Buss was coming over the next hill head on at me. Fortunately I made it back in my lane in time but it was real close. Years later I came up on a similar situation but the guy on this tractor had a pole 10' to 12' long with a bright flag on it so I was able to know he was there before I was 50' behind him.
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You're soundin like one of them unmentionable people now....

Why would you charge every taxpayer (be it state, fuel, road, etc) to build a road or extra lane for folks to use that aren't paying any of those taxes or as little as they can get by with of them......

It'd be much smarter, safer, cheaper, and practical to require and strictly enforce all moving vehicles on a public road, lane, or sidewalk to have proper lights, signs, reflectors, and safety equipment...

If someone hits an Amish buggy , tractor, bicycle, etc because they weren't marked, the driver of the unmarked vehicle should be at or share the fault and pay accordingly.... Let someone wipe out a buggy load of Amish kids that was invisable and sue what's left of the family or clan for the mental problems and other damages and see how quick God tellsem' to get them buggies to TSC to get thier signs and lights....

Same for a tractor, bicycle, etc..... Noone should even thing about coming on here and asking if lights are necessary for a tractor road trip.....
There are a couple guys near me that are handicapped and stuck in a motorized wheelchair, they have a license plate like a moped (which a little tax and insurance), have signals, lights, a horn, and a long orange flag like kids used to have on thier bicycles.........
 
Would it mess with your mind if you killed or injured several people because you couldn't see them.
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You're supposed to slow down at night, and be on the lookout for things that don't have reflectors and flashing lights suddenly jumping out in the road in front of you. Deer, dogs, cats, possums, raccoons, children... Why is an Amish buggy any different?

At least an Amish buggy is moving in the same direction as you, so you have more reaction time.

If you live in Amish country, frankly you have no excuse. You KNOW they might be on the road so you should be paying attention.

Around here in the areas where Amish live there are big yellow reflective signs, just like deer crossing signs, with a picture of a horse and buggy. Of course nobody pays any attention to those...
 
Agree with MKirsch. Doesn't matter if it's a buggy, horse back rider, bicycle, pedestrian, jogger, lawn mower or farm machinery. The guy in the car is supposed to exercise due caution at all times. It'd be nice if everyone else using the roads had big flashing lights and flags,etc. but then we'd just become complacent about them after some time. In the end it's still up to the guy in the car to use his head.

As far as the Amish in particular, yes, I wish they had flashing lights and flags, etc. But they don't. Joggers don't have flashing lights or flags either and neither do the guys with the ATVs around here that seem to think they own the road. ATV riders may have to license and insure their rides, but they are an enormous menace on our roads locally. Not 5% follow any of the laws and they are pretty much assured of a get away if they get seen since a police car can't follow them into the woods and fields. I'd be in favor of limiting ATVs to a 25 MPH speed in all cases. Put a governor on them or a chip in the ignition. I'm sure there are plenty of people that think that's harsh, but in 20 plus years of police work if found nothing turns an sane, responsible citizen into a freakin' moron faster than an ATV, hot ski boat or crotch rocket bike. Just my opinion, but it's proven accurate.
 
Bret, This kinda OT...With regard to the ATV's, in my area I blame the parents that buy their kids one and just turn 'em lose. We have them running our back country roads, late at night, no lights and dressed in all black. My youngest son told me they are about like an inner city gang. They like some fool Rock group and have been tagging (spray painting) traffic signs and the pavement with this Rock groups initials & logo. They even do church signs. I've also been told they have scanners and know if a LEO has been dispatched to this area. It would take a deputy 20-30 minutes to respond, unless there was one in the immediate area. One of my neighbors knows where they hang out, an abandoned, delapitated farm house way off the road. I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to that place.
 
Where is it that you think the Amish and regular farmers aren't paying taxes. They pay taxes like everyone else and are having their lives threatened because they have to drive a slow moving vehicle on public roadways.

The plaqcards may help a little but anyone that drives a slow moving vehicle takes their life in their own hands when they go out on the highway. One the story on my first post. The guy could have had strobe lights all over his tractor and it wouldn't have made a difference. I came over a hill and there he was. If the roadway had a wide shoulder where he could have been driving there it would have been safe. This stretch of highway didn’t even have a place to get your car off the road if you broke down.

No the plaqcards aren't the solution and there a lot people forced to drive slow moving vehicles so the only reasonable solution in my eye is a dedicated slow lane.
 
(quoted from post at 04:40:49 05/10/12) Where is it that you think the Amish and regular farmers aren't paying taxes. They pay taxes like everyone else and are having their lives threatened because they have to drive a slow moving vehicle on public roadways.

The plaqcards may help a little but anyone that drives a slow moving vehicle takes their life in their own hands when they go out on the highway. One the story on my first post. The guy could have had strobe lights all over his tractor and it wouldn't have made a difference. I came over a hill and there he was. If the roadway had a wide shoulder where he could have been driving there it would have been safe. This stretch of highway didn’t even have a place to get your car off the road if you broke down.

No the plaqcards aren't the solution and there a lot people forced to drive slow moving vehicles so the only reasonable solution in my eye is a dedicated slow lane.
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I agree with the slow lane idea. In western, Pa near Dayton , they are everywhere. On 2 differenet occassions I have had near misses . Some are lite up, but others aren't. It certainly gives you a fright when you find one in the fog. I don't know why law enforcement doesn't have safety checks on them. They don't hesitate to pull me over for a burnt out light.
 
(quoted from post at 05:23:29 05/10/12)
(quoted from post at 04:40:49 05/10/12) Where is it that you think the Amish and regular farmers aren't paying taxes. They pay taxes like everyone else and are having their lives threatened because they have to drive a slow moving vehicle on public roadways.

The plaqcards may help a little but anyone that drives a slow moving vehicle takes their life in their own hands when they go out on the highway. One the story on my first post. The guy could have had strobe lights all over his tractor and it wouldn't have made a difference. I came over a hill and there he was. If the roadway had a wide shoulder where he could have been driving there it would have been safe. This stretch of highway didn’t even have a place to get your car off the road if you broke down.

No the plaqcards aren't the solution and there a lot people forced to drive slow moving vehicles so the only reasonable solution in my eye is a dedicated slow lane.
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I agree with the slow lane idea. In western, Pa near Dayton , they are everywhere. On 2 differenet occassions I have had near misses . Some are lite up, but others aren't. It certainly gives you a fright when you find one in the fog. I don't know why law enforcement doesn't have safety checks on them. They don't hesitate to pull me over for a burnt out light.
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Put in that slow lane and see how quick bubba starts usin it as a passing lane... Just enforce laws that vehicles traveling on public roads be lit/marked... They can choose whether or not to use the road then......
 
What I really meant for a slow lane was more of a rural gravel road adjacent to the blacktop for tractors and Amish buggies. If bubba left the blacktop for one of these to pass I think he would be in the ditch. The laws are not going to help. It doesn't matter how these vehicles are marked. Under many conditions having a vehicle moving at a substantially slower speed on our highways is inviting a wreck. An Amish buggy could have a light show on the back like police cars and if you came over a hill at highway speed your going to have trouble stopping.
 

You can't fix or mandate a fix for stupid.................. Just a few minutes ago, I was backing the tractor into my driveway off a public road.... Guy with a car and trailer tried to squeeze between me and my diiveway as I was still moving... I got stopped and waited, but he had to unhook his trailer and push it back so he could get his car outta the tight place he made..... When he got all done, I moved my tractor forward a little.....
 
(quoted from post at 06:13:53 05/07/12) Kentucky Supreme Court recently ruled in favor of several Amish who were fined, and subsequently arrested for contempt of court when the refused to use SMV emblems on their buggies. Their position is, the bright orange SMV emblems are "too flashy" and violate their religious beliefs. They will now be allowed to use roads without the SMV emblems, instead using white reflectors/tape. White or black are the only acceptable colors in the eyes of the Amish. We have several fatal accidents involving Amish buggies on Ky roads every year.

It's my own personal opinion that failure to use the SMV emblem is much akin to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. If you're that dense, go right ahead. (Over 2/3rds of FATAL motorcycle accidents in KY involve riders NOT wearing helmets) However, I'm somewhat pleased to see ANY court upholding the right of personal choice. That said, if I go on the road with a black buggy, I'm hanging SMV emblems all over it. My choice.
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The MC fatalities are just the tip of the iceberg. There is an industry of careing for people who are incapacitated with head injuries. There is a home for them near me with approx. 100 beds. A very high proportion of the patients are there as a result of MC injuries.
 
(quoted from post at 06:09:04 05/08/12)
Would it mess with your mind if you killed or injured several people because you couldn't see them.
Click to expand...

You're supposed to slow down at night, and be on the lookout for things that don't have reflectors and flashing lights suddenly jumping out in the road in front of you. Deer, dogs, cats, possums, raccoons, children... Why is an Amish buggy any different?

At least an Amish buggy is moving in the same direction as you, so you have more reaction time.

If you live in Amish country, frankly you have no excuse. You KNOW they might be on the road so you should be paying attention.

Around here in the areas where Amish live there are big yellow reflective signs, just like deer crossing signs, with a picture of a horse and buggy. Of course nobody pays any attention to those...
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Yes, if you live in Amish country you probably have no excuse. Does that mean that the Amish are less dead or less injured when run over by someone from out of town?
 
(quoted from post at 04:29:40 05/11/12)
(quoted from post at 06:13:53 05/07/12) Kentucky Supreme Court recently ruled in favor of several Amish who were fined, and subsequently arrested for contempt of court when the refused to use SMV emblems on their buggies. Their position is, the bright orange SMV emblems are "too flashy" and violate their religious beliefs. They will now be allowed to use roads without the SMV emblems, instead using white reflectors/tape. White or black are the only acceptable colors in the eyes of the Amish. We have several fatal accidents involving Amish buggies on Ky roads every year.

It's my own personal opinion that failure to use the SMV emblem is much akin to riding a motorcycle without a helmet. If you're that dense, go right ahead. (Over 2/3rds of FATAL motorcycle accidents in KY involve riders NOT wearing helmets) However, I'm somewhat pleased to see ANY court upholding the right of personal choice. That said, if I go on the road with a black buggy, I'm hanging SMV emblems all over it. My choice.
Click to expand...

The MC fatalities are just the tip of the iceberg. There is an industry of careing for people who are incapacitated with head injuries. There is a home for them near me with approx. 100 beds. A very high proportion of the patients are there as a result of MC injuries.
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Paid for by who???? Makes you wanna mandate helmets huh????
 
(quoted from post at 04:44:11 05/08/12) I've always felt that areas of the country where there is frequent slow moving trafic whether it is a Amish buggy or tractor the state should make a wide enough sholder on the roadway for the slow traffic. Many places in the country have wide open spaces where you can easily see a slow vehicle the road there now are fine. Then there are places where it is wooded, road twists and turns or hilly where you can come up on a slow vehicle before you can attempt to stop. One time I was driving on a hilly road in Kentucky and came over a hill and there was someone with a small garden tractor poking along and I couldn't stop in time. I had to make a sudden choice to pass the tractor and before I could get around the tractor a Greyhound Buss was coming over the next hill head on at me. Fortunately I made it back in my lane in time but it was real close. Years later I came up on a similar situation but the guy on this tractor had a pole 10' to 12' long with a bright flag on it so I was able to know he was there before I was 50' behind him.
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I have driven through a lot of Amish country in PA and Ohio. It is very noticeable that crops and lawns and yes, even homes are planted right up to ten inches from the pavement. Who pays for land acquisition for another lane and who gets their homes taken?
 
Say what ever but the fact remains there will be fewer
wrecks, injuries, cripples, widows, widowers and orphans .With
tail lights and reflectors vs. all black buggies.
 
I think I would have pulled the tractor off to the other side of the road while all that was going on and got out of his way.
 
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