Possible hay lease, need some advice. Pics included.

So I went and looked at some hay ground, marginal at best. 16 acres plus another 2. The 2 acres is old creek bottom and looks really good, probably produce in the 2.5 to 3 ton per acre. The 16 acres(and it's been surveyed by the state, so it's a true 16 acres) is an old road fill from years ago(20 years + or-). The owner bush hogs it twice a year. It's relatively clean mixed grass, mostly fescue with a little clover spread thru it. I did notice a few wild rose bush's, just about ankle high or so, and some old sage grass(needs lime bad I'm sure) It's on the thin side, I'm gonna guess and say it'll produce between a ton and ton and a half per acre. On the plus side it's pretty easy access. Down side is he wants $700 for the first cutting, then he said he'd price per cutting after that. I figure first cutting is gonna have some of the left over trash from last years bush hogging, but it didn't really look that bad. I'm really covered up and don't have the time for it, but good level ground that's easy got to is hard to come by around here. I can't convince myself that it's worth it but knowing how hard ground is to come by around here, it's hard to pass up. Owner also seems to be very particular, but seems to have warmed up to me. Any suggestions?

Don't know,but you're sure makin me homesick with a few of those pictures.

Might not be a good deal at first but you could grow it into something
worth having. I'd try to get it the first time based on hay yield and test
of the hay. I'd do a soil test on it if I was series about it and use that
for a negotiating point. I'd try working with the landowner telling him
were I'm at on it, if it's not worth what he wants explain why and what
could be done to get it so you can both make what you need off of it.

I’d walk....

If you get the high side of your estimate, with zero loss, it might work out to 50/50. On the low side it’s 10/90 (he gets the 90). To many variables for that kind of risk.

Locally, I'd offer to mow it for free. Grass hay, at least around here, is only 40-50 bucks a ton. At $700, on the low side, you’re at $35 not counting the fuel, equipment, and time. Throw in a shower and you lose….

Might offer to rent it but it would be a long term lease for the ground, and none of his biz what I do or don’t make off it. Might be a few years before it gets to a point it is a producer. You do not want to do all that work and have him take it away (BTDT).

Rule of thumb on crop shares is 1/3 to landowner, 2/3 for farmer. Looks like a third of the crop will be about 7 tons, so if hay value is about $100 a ton, price is about right.

I'd look into a crop share arrangement, with him also paying a third of the fertilizer and lime. Your costs are about the same whether getting a ton or 2 tons, so it makes sense to get more production, from both standpoints.

If you are going to mow that with a regular mower it looks to me like you are going to be plugged up a lot. If you are going to mow it with a rotary mower or disk mower you will probably be allright. If that is all the clover you can find the price is too high. Looks like a thin crop.

Too many variables in different parts of the country; around 'here', the price would be about right.........for the whole year. If I were gonna do it under the conditions he's imposed, I'd negotiate a 'crop share' arrangement or walk.

Yep, oldtimers would say it "lays nice". Never had that term truly defined, but I know it when I see it.

In post above, I was figuring it as a long term play- he says its close to home, good size, good access- 'Twer me, I'd be looking to get in and then eventually drop some other piece that was not as handy.

Seems like an odd arrangement to me. Maybe paying a flat fee per cutting is common in your area, but it isn"t around here. I do understand what you are up against tho, trying to find land is tough.

Like suggested, I"d try to go more for the share of the crop. If you have regular hay buyers you can offer to sell his 1/3rd for him, if he doesn"t want to hassle with it.

Paying a flat price for a cutting in advance, and him leaving an open price on the next cutting seems like he has you taking all the risk.

You could figure it out on a per acre price for the year and tell him you can try it for year one and if you are both happy, you can go 3-5 yrs.

Kinda odd that he has been bush hogging it twice a year at his expense, with no return, and now wants a pretty optimistic price for the hay. You"d think he would be better off to give you the hay ground, because you would keep it cleaned up at no expense to him.. I know, I know, thats not how it works, just sayin...

It has a lot of promise. Good bottom land.You need to get in there. As others said get soil samples. Then figure how many $ and years to get it in top shape. I'm betting 3 years min and about $250 per acre.
So you need to be able to net at least that and then some for fuel/labor and implements.
I'd try to negotiate a share arrange ment for at least a year so you can track expenses and sales.

Some quick figuring on my part. It'll all be small squares. I
think a conservative estimate is about a thousand bales first
cutting. The last couple of years I've been selling mixed grass
squares, a little better quality than this for 2.25 and 2.50 bale.
So I figured 2 a bale on this stuff, so a third money wise is
$660. His 700 isn't off by much. But again, I'm saving him the
trouble of bush hogging it and I'm taking all the risk. Guess I'll
have to sleep on it a few more nights. Thanks for the input.

It looks a little late for this season, but I would have wanted
to burn the dead grass off before making hay on it.

I would not pay a flat fee per cutting. The hay stand is thin and not very tall for the warmth we have had this year. You may not get much of a first and little if any after that if it is fill dirt. I would try to just rent the field for the entire year then get in there with some fertilizer NOW. Then you may get a better crop.

(quoted from post at 22:26:10 04/16/12) Some quick figuring on my part. It'll all be small squares. I
think a conservative estimate is about a thousand bales first
cutting.

Click to expand...

All I can say is Ky soil must turn out a lot more hay per acre than Tx if that will make a 1000 bales. But I make 60-65# bales not lighter ones. I also charge $2.00 to cut,rake & sq bale so your calculations wouldn't work for me.