OT:Pole barn post failure?

There has been a lot of chatter about pole barn post. Just wondering who has experienced post failure? How long did it take? What kind of posts failed? How did you fix the problem? What did you put the post in that failed, wet clay, dry sand, pee gravel, concrete? Who has the oldest pole barn still standing without a post problem and who made it?

Did the termites get to the posts even though they were treated? I had a post where termites got to my landscaping timbers and turned them into junk in 4 years.

I've seen termites eating lumber they weren't suppose to, like treated rail road ties and cypress.

I realize I have many questions, hope some are addressed.

We have a barn here that was built about 1995, 6 years before we came. It was built on 6-10" round untreated red pine poles set in dirt. The posts were rotted by 2007 and I had to jack the beam back up as much a 2' in places, as the posts rotted at grouynd level the roof slowly sank. Another pole barn that had poles set in 96 or 97 as far as I can find out had a similar problem, except on that one they had left the poles in the ground with no roof till 2000. That pole barn blew down in 2004 because all of the poles had rotted at ground level. Bottom line is that untreated red pine poles is an incredibly stupid way to build, but that is fairly obvious anyway, I guess.
Zach

I have watched the Morton buildings sales pitch on youtube. The posts that Morton uses are 2x6's (3) per post and the CCA rating is XXX, or whatever. If I was building a pole shed I would roll 2 coats of thick paint or sealer or something on the part of the pole that is going below grade, pressure treated of course.
Having landscape timbers get eaten by termites means that the chemical injected into the wood was done poorly.
I couldnt see pressure treated lumber lasting very long in ground that was wet all the time.

there is treated wood for above and below grade as for them landscape they are not pressure treated just dipped and what soocks up is all u get the center has nothing

Is there a reason for not using oil field pipe to hold a barn up?

I built a pole barn 35 years ago with 6 x 6 treated post that is still firm today. Dirt and gravel fill in clay based soil.

BTDT and it was not fun to fix. Many years ago my dad had built a simple pole barn using oak tree post and they rotted off in the ground and it started to lean. So I ended up jacking it up some and then using pipe for the posts and it is now the one side of my shop building. For the most part I have since switched from wood post to pipe type post and those seem to last

Dad built a 100 X 60 barn in the mid 50's- used posts that were fir trees he cut on the place, not treated. Most were 12-14" in diameter. Lasted about 15 years, in sandy soil- he dug down beside them and buddied them up with railroad ties, half in the ground and half bolted to the posts. That was about 40 years ago, and the barn is still standing.

Sister has a machine shed (pole barn) with cedar posts that appears to have been built in the 1970's, not sure. Posts rotted off about 5 years ago, we have been replacing them one by one with creosoted beams that were on the property. The soil is clay till and it is wet most of the year but frozen about 3-4 months of the wet time.

Biggest problem we have is the barn is sinking deeper and deeper in the wet clay. The siding is in the ground now. I suppose it was sinking about as fast as it was rotting. When I put a new post in I have to built a rock pad for the butt to spread the load before backfilling. We jacked the front about 2 ft, the back needs to come up about 4 ft.

I put up a cedar split rail fence in 2004. In 2011 the fence fell down in a storm. I thought the fence came down because a branch fell on it. Termites had eaten off all the post below ground and was having lunch on the split rails.

There is 2 types of treated lumber, below ground and above ground. I've had scrap pieces of 2X6 treated that i had used to keep stuff off the ground and the termites ate it up. Other below ground scraps are not bothered. I put up a Morton building in 81 and they were still using the 6x6 post then and they are still fine, at least when I last checked. They were set in yellow clay with good drainage away from building. I put irons in the concrete shop portion and attached to post in case they did rot, but so far so good. Morton switched to the laminated post the next year, but have not heard any reports about them. The best treated lumber is no longer available, the penta treated stuff. I just recently used the last 5 gal can I still had.

The oldest barn between Pop's place and mine was built in 1907 with cedar poles. They are reduced by about a third below grade, but still solid. There is a corn crib from the same era that now serves as the shop. Grandpa put a metal roof on both, which is the only reason they still stand. The rest of the pole barns and sheds were built anywhere from the 1950s up to one I haven't finished. On both farms, there are a total of 14 pole-style buildings varying from small to very large, plus a handful of foundation/sill style buildings. All the pole-style buildings used creosoted poles, buried 3-4 feet in silty loam soil. All were backfilled with the soil that came out of the hole. When we poured a slab around them, we wrapped them with tar paper against the concrete. We did that mostly so if we needed to replace the pole, we could pull the old one out easier. There are 3 poles total that currently need to be replaced, two of which were planted in the 1950s. Nothing has sank. I have started to powder the holes with ant poison before backfilling, but I don't know how much that helps against carpenter ants. Time will tell.

My strainer posts get attacked by termites, found they do not like sump oil.Suppose there will be an environment law against this.

67 Years here in the same place and some 40 years ago we started putting up pole buildings. Standar around here is 1/2 bag of redi mix in the bottom of the hole (about 30 in) put some dirt in and finish about the last 6 inches of the hole with the rest of the mix. Have had numerous post on here about concrete causing rot but all we have are still standing and the few we have moved or took up post seemed sound. Built one 6 years ago where we took woodmizer mill and sawed 8 X 8 s out of the center of old light poles, sow far seems solid. Not sure that the part of the country you are in might have something to do with it. Certainly moisture and draiage affect the things.

We built ours in 1982, after the old barn burned. 6x6 sawed spruce posts brush treated with creosote, set on ledge and back filled with whatever came out of the hole. Three years ago, I jacked it up, nearly a foot and a half in some places, cut the posts and spliced in pressure treated material on the bottom.

The next summer a high wind/thunderstorm dropped five trees on the roof, if the posts hadn't been repaired the whole building would have folded right up, as it is the posts are no linger plumb, but I am not going to try jacking it back into shape.

I have a Morton building that was built in the late 1960s with 6x6 post. They are still good.

I have a Clary building that was built in 1978 and every post rotted off at the ground level by the mid 1990s. I jacked it up and poured a concrete footer and bolted "L" shaped brackets to the post and the footer.

I have another Morton building that just was built in 2002 They are the laminated post and they are still good too.

I have several other sheds/lean to that we have built yourselves over the years and the post form a local builder are all good. The post from Menard's are all rotting. Local guy keeps the better post.

I started several years ago to dumping a five gallon bucket of half old oil and half diesel fuel around the base of the posts each year. I think it is helping but only time will tell.

George, Here in Texas, We Do Have Termites, Great big honkin ones,......But they just don't do much damage to Steel pipe post on barns and fences. LOL
OK I had to say that, as some have said What is wrong with Steel Pipe Post? A pole barn made with 2-7/8 or 3 in pipe, all welded up cant be beat!
Later,
John A.

In Indiana old TV towers and close lines posts were made using steel pipes. The iron worms eat the post off at ground level. Of course, no one painted the posts after they were installed. I suppose if the pipes were covered and inside the building, you may be able to keep the iron worms away. You may not have iron worms in Texas

This post has been an eye opener. I'm asking myself, why would anyone want to put a house inside a pole barn that has a wooden foundation that is porne to failure.

I have no clue how long my posts will last. I have decided to get my termite guy out and have him termite treat my posts and boards. He can inject the treatment 5 ft under ground, so I'll have him make it unpleasant for termites and ants for a long time.

I'm looking into building a 40x60 pole building.A local builder says it's not much higher to use cement and forget the post.I haven't seen his estimate yet though.

Dad built a corn crib in 1961 using treated poles, 50 years ago They are now partially rotted of and the crib is leaning. I think mom is going to have the dozer come in and bury everything except the 3 bins and the pole barn dad put up in 1986.

I have 4 morton buildings, which I call pole barns. They put a treated post directly into the ground. Our oldest one has creosote 6X6 posts, and the newer ones are three 2X6's nailed together staggered to make posts. They all rot the same. They last about 20 years before they rot off. My soil is clay, wet at the bottom, but they don't rot at the bottom. They rot just below the surface. It's a combination of moisture and air that creates the environment for rot. It's the same with both the solid creosote and the 2X5 build up with later treated.
Recently I repaired some posts because I was rennovating one barn. I dug down and removed the lower rotted off portion, and carefully removed the built up 2X6s up til I had all good wood. then I built up the repair section from treated wood, and installed a plastic "Post Protector" on the bottom. Then I installed the new piece to the post. As long as teh post protector is on the inside and you are not getting water down into the post protector, I think this will far outlast the life of the original post. This is what they should be doing with all new morton buildings if they aren't already. It's cheap protection. On the other hand, it might make the buildings last longer than Morton would like for sales purposes. Here's a before and after. Yes, I had cut open the concrete and then repaired it after. I was converting this open barn section into an enclosed area. this post was 90 percent rotted off.