- Thread starter Bill(Wis)
- Start date
chucksoliver77
Well-known Member
heard the gov. is thinking about raising the rebate to $10,000.00.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Dealers have more than they need.I think that translates into. We can't give the things away.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Where are all these people that call themselves environmentalists? Looks like when the going gets tough they become all talk and no action.
And I was just ready to go out and buy one.NOT!! One fellow said he got all of 17 miles out of a full charge. Also, think what might happen if the government did decide to effectively "give them away" and maybe 50% of the residents of someplace like Atlanta drove them and plugged them all in at the same time. How many grids would trip? I remember the time lightning struck the Indian Point Nuke plant. New York City lights went out about 45 minutes later. I watched it happen. We were on final into LaGuardia. Fortunately LaGuardia's backup power system worked. Sort of. Took 3 or 4 days to get the power back on. (;>))
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Volts use nore energy, and polute more at the Power plant smoke stack, than a good running gasoline or diesel car in most of the US. Where energy is made with hydro, or primary nuclear, they are better than standard cars, but not much.
Untill we drag our selves away from the adiction to carbon based elecrticity, we will not begin to sell upside down polluting cars. Farming and food transportation will need the power of carbon in some form for quite a while. Could be bio fuels, but carbon power is King for portability. Jim
Untill we drag our selves away from the adiction to carbon based elecrticity, we will not begin to sell upside down polluting cars. Farming and food transportation will need the power of carbon in some form for quite a while. Could be bio fuels, but carbon power is King for portability. Jim
PeteTheRookie
Member
Excerpt from link below.
I remember reading in Car and Driver when I was a teenager (Im 51 now) about the electric/hybrid research GM and Toyota did together. GM decided it was too costly and not profitable. Toyota kept at it and the results are history.
1997 - 1999
A small selection of all-electric cars from the big automakers — including Honda’s EV Plus, GM’s EV1 and S-10 electric pickup, a Ford Ranger pickup, and Toyota’s RAV4 EV — were introduced in California. Despite the enthusiasm of early adopters, the electrics failed to reach beyond a few hundred drivers for each model. Within a few years, the all-electric programs were dropped.
Hydrids have been around for a lot longer then GM
I remember reading in Car and Driver when I was a teenager (Im 51 now) about the electric/hybrid research GM and Toyota did together. GM decided it was too costly and not profitable. Toyota kept at it and the results are history.
1997 - 1999
A small selection of all-electric cars from the big automakers — including Honda’s EV Plus, GM’s EV1 and S-10 electric pickup, a Ford Ranger pickup, and Toyota’s RAV4 EV — were introduced in California. Despite the enthusiasm of early adopters, the electrics failed to reach beyond a few hundred drivers for each model. Within a few years, the all-electric programs were dropped.
Hydrids have been around for a lot longer then GM
My local CIH dealer recently sold their first tractor (Quadtrac) that listed for over $500,000. This was cause for celebration so the salesman and the buyer plus a few others drove out to Fargo where a nice welcome was laid out. Anyway, the Steiger folks claimed that the air coming out the tractor exhaust stack was cleaner than the air that went in.
Remember when things like Popular Science Magazine got us interested in,and wanting new things like that? Now there seems to be a whole movement trying to drive us away. The only way things like that will get to the point that we've gotten with cell phones,satalite dishes and the internet is for enough people to want it. It's just a dam shame how some people draw a line in the sand and say that technology ends here for some political reason. I think it'd be great to jump in to something that sounds like an electric razor for a quick trip to town if the vehicle was affordable.
I never thought it would be feasable for cell phone companies to build enough towers to make those things viable,but look where we've gotten with those because people wanted them.
I never thought it would be feasable for cell phone companies to build enough towers to make those things viable,but look where we've gotten with those because people wanted them.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
For certain, the particulates were fewer than the dusty air entering the air cleaner intake. A claim available for many aircleaners. The air leaving a Tier-4 diesel engine is also very free of carbon (soot).
What it is not free of is carbon dioxide. and what it is missing is substantial oxygen. So if clean air means lack of dirt, OK. I choose air with oxygen and very little carbon dioxide. Jim
What it is not free of is carbon dioxide. and what it is missing is substantial oxygen. So if clean air means lack of dirt, OK. I choose air with oxygen and very little carbon dioxide. Jim
Electric cars have been around for over 100 years. Even today - trying to push electric cars is "putting the cart before the horse."
We don't have excess electricity available to run them. The whole concept seems absurd to me, considering there have been NO breakthroughs in the cheap generation of electricity.
We don't have excess electricity available to run them. The whole concept seems absurd to me, considering there have been NO breakthroughs in the cheap generation of electricity.
Phil in Pa
Member
They want to spend [i:654c4848f0]your[/i:654c4848f0] money, not their own.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
In the '97-'99 window I was working at a Ford dealer, and the area electric utility was considering buying the electric Rangers. We discovered that the battery array took up the entire bed, and when you had to replace it, the cost was over $11,000.
THAT'S why they weren't popular; it was a pickup truck with NO utility value, and it had negative residual value once the battery setup needed to be replaced.
THAT'S why they weren't popular; it was a pickup truck with NO utility value, and it had negative residual value once the battery setup needed to be replaced.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
In the '97-'99 window I was working at a Ford dealer, and the area electric utility was considering buying the electric Rangers. We discovered that the battery array took up the entire bed, and when you had to replace it, the cost was over $11,000.
THAT'S why they weren't popular; it was a pickup truck with NO utility value, and it had negative residual value once the battery setup needed to be replaced.
THAT'S why they weren't popular; it was a pickup truck with NO utility value, and it had negative residual value once the battery setup needed to be replaced.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Buick has a hybrid that is semi practical. A beefy motor/generator is belted to the already excellent Ecotek direct injection four.A lithium battery pack the size of carry on luggage is placed under the back seat.
During de-acceleration the battery is charged instead of wasting energy heating the brake rotors. On acceleration the motor/generator gives the four banger the power of a six.
School buses, transit buses and other stop and go vehicles would be well served with such as system.
During de-acceleration the battery is charged instead of wasting energy heating the brake rotors. On acceleration the motor/generator gives the four banger the power of a six.
School buses, transit buses and other stop and go vehicles would be well served with such as system.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Only problem with the electric car is those pesky laws of physics.
More research isn't going to change the fact that batteries only carry a small amount of energy per pound.
Anybody that has studied chemistry knows there are only so many moles and electron volts etc in any two dissimilar conductors.
More research isn't going to change the fact that batteries only carry a small amount of energy per pound.
Anybody that has studied chemistry knows there are only so many moles and electron volts etc in any two dissimilar conductors.
I posted here last night to a thread on gas/oil prices that for some mysterious reason was poofed.
What I said was that natural gas-powered vehicles are much, much closer to being a practical reality than most Americans seem to realize. It is a technology that is growing rapidly, albeit quietly. Honda sells a Civic that is rigged for CNG. I understand that you can buy an F-150 from the dealer that is CNG-only or dual-fuel equipped. The CNG installation is third party, but it's backed by Ford. You can also have CNG kits installed aftermarket, but not backed by Ford.
Where I live there are CNG filling stations available 24 hours. City buses run on CNG, as do most local government fleets. The gasoline gallon equivalent price is about $1.75.
My next truck will be a CNG/gasoline or maybe even straight-up CNG.
What I said was that natural gas-powered vehicles are much, much closer to being a practical reality than most Americans seem to realize. It is a technology that is growing rapidly, albeit quietly. Honda sells a Civic that is rigged for CNG. I understand that you can buy an F-150 from the dealer that is CNG-only or dual-fuel equipped. The CNG installation is third party, but it's backed by Ford. You can also have CNG kits installed aftermarket, but not backed by Ford.
Where I live there are CNG filling stations available 24 hours. City buses run on CNG, as do most local government fleets. The gasoline gallon equivalent price is about $1.75.
My next truck will be a CNG/gasoline or maybe even straight-up CNG.
Both Eaton and Parker are building a hydraulic mild hybrid system.
They show a worthwile gain in city stop / go driving.
Truck hydraulic hybrid.
They show a worthwile gain in city stop / go driving.
Truck hydraulic hybrid.
History repeats itself, LOL 
The new electric and hybrid electric cars are so silent that folks were walking out in front or behind them and getting hurt.
Possibly the 2012 models and for sure 2013 are required to have a noise maker to warn folks when they are running in electric mode.
Want to bet the new noise maker is more complicated and expensive than the old ladys "bell on the wheel" noise maker.
The new electric and hybrid electric cars are so silent that folks were walking out in front or behind them and getting hurt.
Possibly the 2012 models and for sure 2013 are required to have a noise maker to warn folks when they are running in electric mode.
Want to bet the new noise maker is more complicated and expensive than the old ladys "bell on the wheel" noise maker.
Sooo.....trees and other plants need CO2...right? Do we want more O2 in the "air" or do we want just the right amount within an acceptable range? When O2 gets above 24-25% fires become uncontrollable. When O2 gets too low, the things that use it die and then it comes back again. I was under the impression that "nature" (man being a part of the whole scheme) takes care of this. What am I missing?
wilson ind
Well-known Member
I am not about to buy a volt. However with some of the claims verses actual the big guys could do better. Few years ago I built an electric powered ford ranger ( farm show 6-7 years ago) from forklift motor using a bunch of used batteries from niece and her husbands job with cell phone company. My limiting factor was homemade controller using stages of batteries. This used power from first set discharging disportanily from the entire bank. Could startup with full voltage but would lay a large patch of rubber. Top speed was 42 mph and range of 10 miles however another 8 if let set for hour or more. If someone would help me make a 48 or higher volt regulator for delco alternator I would start on new one soon. It would use a small 4 cy wakasua from aircraft generator an provide water heater and defroster, vaccume for brakes AC and 12 volt lighting. When I used mine at night on acceleration lights would go dim. Also no defroster and other things to me say hybrid with water heat and 12 volt lighting. e mail is open. Bill
wilson ind
Well-known Member
I am not about to buy a volt. However with some of the claims verses actual the big guys could do better. Few years ago I built an electric powered ford ranger ( farm show 6-7 years ago) from forklift motor using a bunch of used batteries from niece and her husbands job with cell phone company. My limiting factor was homemade controller using stages of batteries. This used power from first set discharging disportanily from the entire bank. Could startup with full voltage but would lay a large patch of rubber. Top speed was 42 mph and range of 10 miles however another 8 if let set for hour or more. If someone would help me make a 48 or higher volt regulator for delco alternator I would start on new one soon. It would use a small 4 cy wakasua from aircraft generator an provide water heater and defroster, vaccume for brakes AC and 12 volt lighting. When I used mine at night on acceleration lights would go dim. Also no defroster and other things to me say hybrid with water heat and 12 volt lighting. e mail is open. Bill
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Taking carbon out of the ground (where it has been for eons) and reintroducing it into the air is the issue. Small things make big differences.
How is the normalcy of weather in your area. Jim
How is the normalcy of weather in your area. Jim
Paul from MI
Well-known Member
It's amazing how many common ordinary folks can take a calculator and figure out that paying over $40,000 for a car that won't do anything a $20,000 one can't do isn't a good deal. Guess those Phd's in Washington that forced that thing on GM underestimated common sense.
Think the rebate will have to go to about 25K so it'll be priced the same as the same sized gas car it is based upon. The link to hybrids didn't cover the Owen Magnetic car that had a gasoline engine that drove a generator the generator had several different sets of windings that would be turned on or off as needed to power the car. To other recent attempts at electric cars the Henny Kilowatt which was a Renualt Dauphine converted to electric in the late 50's early 60's and the Electric Leopard the was a R-5 Renault (Lecar) converted to electric in the late 70's early 80's. Part of our problem is the MBA types running the government that can't do basic math. One wanted to make some changes to our county government. He proposed cutting back in the Highway department, he couldn't understand if he eliminated trucks why we couldn't get the roads clear in the same time frame (you have to be more efficient!), or to put it another way he couldn't understand why we can't plow snow at 124 miles per hour. (310 miles of road to be plowed, can only do one side of the road at a time means you need to drive 620 miles. If you want it done in 1 hour and have 5 trucks each truck needs to travel 124 miles an hour) He is no longer in County government, last I heard he was working for a bank.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
Not aware of your reference to the govt., but if it is about their involvement in GM's bailout/turnaround, go drive a Silverado. You won't believe it is a Chevy. After 30+ years of avoiding the brand, I have had mine a year in April and can't find a thing to gripe about.
Like today, I have a full size 4 door, short box, with the 4.8 V8 and 4 speed auto. Was pulling my tandem flatbed trailer with a ton of 33-0-0 on it and got 14.8 to 15 while doing it. Got over 15 with the trailer before I picked up the load. The numbers come from the onboard computer, not from my arithmetic.
I can handle that.
Mark
Like today, I have a full size 4 door, short box, with the 4.8 V8 and 4 speed auto. Was pulling my tandem flatbed trailer with a ton of 33-0-0 on it and got 14.8 to 15 while doing it. Got over 15 with the trailer before I picked up the load. The numbers come from the onboard computer, not from my arithmetic.
I can handle that.
Mark
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
What's your secret. I have an '08 GMC 4.8L,4X4 and it only gets 11 gpm driving speed limit or slower with no load???????
Paul Janke
Member
I once set up an old Chrysler alternator to put out 120 volts. I opened up the alternator and brought out leads in front of the diodes. Those leads were fed into three transformers to drop the voltage. Those dropped outputs were fed into full wave rectifiers which then went to the original voltage regulator. The new voltage at the original alternator output is higher by the ratio of the transformer times the original output voltage.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
They all ride bicycles.
I'm glad you asked. I still cannot reliably plant any more than 95 day corn if I want ripe corn. That hasn't changed in the 75 years that I've been around. We do plant 110 day corn but that's for silage. When you say "small things make big differences", does the opposite apply? Do "big things make small differences"? I can't help but think back to the massive volcanic eruption of Mt Pinatubo in 1990-91. Most of it occurred on a single day in 1991. About 30 million tons of sulfer dioxide alone were spewed high into the atmosphere, where after mixing with air and water vapor became sulfuric acid which did enormous damage to the ozone layer over Antarctica. 13 inches of dust settled on the island of Luzon and Clark field at Manila was destroyed. Two years later all that was left in the atmosphere was just enough to give us a few more pretty sunsets. If the earth's atmosphere cleaned all that up in several years then what is a little puff of diesel smoke every now and then going to do? It seems that the earth not only could, but does, handle this just fine. I'm having a hard time understanding the alarm some people demonstrate when, as I stated earlier, I still have to plant 95 day corn. After a lifetime of planting corn.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Is this the same electric car where company had everything set up for photo shoot campaign and the vehicle could not get up a gentle rise so everything was cancelled.?Back to the DB.
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