Diesel question.

JayinNY · Feb 20, 2012

Old vs new? What do u think about the older diesel engines vs the new ones, case in point, let's say a 1981 IH paystar 5000 and a 2011 international truck. I wonder if the new one will last as long as the older ones? Which have more power?? Older ones easier to fix, Ect, I think the older ones will be better, but I'm not an expert.

PopinJohn · Feb 20, 2012

One of the turning points for Detroit Diesel back in 1988 when Roger Penske bought the company, was a systematic cleanup and upgrading of the factory environment, which resulted in less dust, dirt, shavings, etc. being built into an engine on the production line.
Dealers were also required to "cleanup" the shop where engines were repaired. I know, I was service manager at Florida Detroit Diesel at the time. Florida DDA became a factory owned dealer.
So as the series 60 truck engine made its debut, a much cleaner assembly environment at the factory and at the dealer level helped the engine to meet reliability goals that were established.
My opinion is that most companies are building better engines, both gasoline and Diesel, nowadays, from a mechanical standpoint, but I am not impressed with the complexity of the computer systems that are in place.
Just my 2 cents, MikeS.

donjr · Feb 20, 2012

If the newer engines today are as tough as the older ones, they'll be good engines for the most part. From what I read and hear, the newer GM's are built in 'clean rooms' that are the copies of the NASA rooms where they build sattelites and rockets. A friend works for Allison and spent a long school period in Europe just to learn how to build them. The specs are nothing like the engines and drive trains of just twenty years ago, and are supposedly engineered for the long haul. For the price, they should be. So far, my Duramax- Allison combo has been fault free for over 60,000 miles, so time will tell.

DannyE · Feb 20, 2012

I'm satisfied with my 02' duramax-allison, good milage, no trouble-other than jelling,more power than I need, plays with bobcat trailer loaded, 148,000 just another 2 cents
Dan

DannyE · Feb 20, 2012

I'm satisfied with my 02' duramax-allison, good milage, no trouble-other than jelling,more power than I need, plays with bobcat trailer loaded, 148,000 just another 2 cents
Dan

sixtyninegmc · Feb 20, 2012

I worked as a heavy truck mechanic maintaining a fleet of about 15 trucks, and I noticed the newer C-15 cats and ISX cummins not lasting nearly as long as there older counterparts, on the newer engines 400,000-500,000 seems to be about the limit on mileage before an inframe overhaul, where the older 3406 cats and Big Cam cummins could make it to a million or more miles. Granted, I think that a good portion of that is due to pushing more horsepower through the same sized engine. The 400hp cummins and 425hp cat were the standards around here for a long time, and the new engines are pushing 600-650hp out of the same displacement, around 50% more power.

RodinNS · Feb 20, 2012

If you're comparing a mechanical DT466 to an electronic DT466HT or DT530/570... the old one is going to be around a lot longer.
I do not care for the operational characteristics of those particular newer engines.
If you want to talk N14 Cummins vs some of the older NTC Cummins... I'd probably pick the N14.
We've got a DT570 set at 330 in a fire truck that doesn't do a whole lot better than a sickly DT466-180.... to the point that if you put them side by side I doubt the 530 could pass the 466 with the same load... wether the transmissions make up the difference or the engines... I don't know... but it's not particularly impressive.

Rod

oldtanker · Feb 20, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:31:54 02/20/12) Old vs new? What do u think about the older diesel engines vs the new ones, case in point, let's say a 1981 IH paystar 5000 and a 2011 international truck. I wonder if the new one will last as long as the older ones? Which have more power?? Older ones easier to fix, Ect, I think the older ones will be better, but I'm not an expert.

Only Paystar 5000's I drove had the Cummins 350 NTC for an engine. If I was buying a new International I would be ordering it with a Cummins or Detroit so your question shouldn't be about the badge on the truck but on the maker of the engine.

Rick

Jim in Ma. · Feb 20, 2012

But I towed a lot of 4 1/4 cats home on the end of a hook with the crank in 2 parts back then.

Spook · Feb 21, 2012

I worked at GM, setting up and programming gages, in engine plants. Over the years I saw tolerances get tighter and tighter, and better matierals used. Sub micron tolerances are now common.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 21, 2012

You can not get a Cummins or a Detroit in a current model International, omly their own engines. Cummins available in Freightliner, Peterbilt, and Kenworth. Detroit available in Freightliner & Western Star.

RodinNS · Feb 21, 2012

All of the truck manufactureres have settled on one or two of their own engines at this point due to emissions. IH will have their own traditional engines plus a couple of Cat based contrivances for the upper end of the range... and IIRC, IH will be putting the fuel and emissions systems on them.
Daimler....FreightLinerWestern Star will be using Detroits and Mercedes for the most part with some Cummins engines.
Paccar has gone with a european DAP engine that I think they label as their 'own' engine...
Volvo/Mack are using Volvo engines.

Rod

sixtyninegmc · Feb 21, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:07:45 02/20/12) But I towed a lot of 4 1/4 cats home on the end of a hook with the crank in 2 parts back then.

eah, that fuel screw on the B models was just a little too hard to resist for most folks. Up here most folks learned that there was a limit to how high you should turn them up. I never have seen many bottom end problems on the C or E models comparitively.

And Rod, talking cummins I would have to agree with you that the N14 is preferable to the NTC, as long as it is not turned up too far. The Signature 600 and the ISX is what I have seen too many issues with to trust. The NTC will run forever, but they are not fun to work on (and do right) and I like the way the N14 drives better.

RodinNS · Feb 21, 2012

What I find with the N14 is that it's much the same basic old engine with pretty decent electronic control... a little better torque response... that type of thing. And not so bad to smoke like the old buggers did.
What I hate about the new ones like the DT570's is the traction control. They've just got too much going on... and it's not a simple control system anymore. Too much is integrated...

Rod

RodinNS · Feb 21, 2012

There was probably a fair number of those 4-1/4 Cats that turned 2 million miles on the original inserts too... I know of one that had a set of head gaskets and nothing more in 2 mil miles.

Rod

Diesel question.

JayinNY

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PopinJohn

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donjr

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DannyE

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DannyE

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sixtyninegmc

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RodinNS

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oldtanker

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Jim in Ma.

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Spook

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Anonymous-0

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RodinNS

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sixtyninegmc

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