Fine for not providing SS no.

Nathan (SD) · Jan 20, 2012

What is the fine for not providing your SS no. for a 1099. Woman that rents from me said I had to give it to her by law. Her acct said so. Which law is it? I can't find anything on line.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 20, 2012

She is probably right. I sold a pair of folding boatracks to a university and they would not pay me with out a ss no. That triggered a fine from the irs for not filing quarterly tax returns. One pair of boatracks that I had made for a welding class project turned me into an unincoperated business.

chess · Jan 20, 2012

I told an showed local hospital i was not required to give ss no an they have changed policy an no longer require it.I think it is by law only required on federal forms however we just allow others to ask an we give it too them.There is no fine for not giving it to person you said . Just we have gotten into giving it so easy everyone will probably just refuse to deal with us if we dont give it. As for hospital i showed them written statment from fedes i think.

Stephen Newell · Jan 20, 2012

I would just give her a written receipt for the rent paid. That is all she needs to claim the deduction. She on the other hand could use your SS number for identify theft.

chess · Jan 20, 2012

Google in ---who is llegally required to ask you for your ss number.Interesting

GordoSD · Jan 20, 2012

I just bought a Colt 1911 from an FFL dealer. He gave me the federal form which "required" my SSN. I refused to put it in the box. He went and called in the registration and it went through just fine.

MarkB_MI · Jan 20, 2012

Refusing to complete a W-9 will at the least flag you as a potential tax cheat. I would be much more concerned about your forthcoming audit than any fine that might be associated with your refusal to give your tenant your tax ID.

I assume that your tenant is declaring her rent as a business expense. Rent payments over $600 require the filer to send a 1099-MISC to the landlord and IRS. You are required by law to provide her with your tax ID number.

old · Jan 20, 2012

I know by law your S.S. is not suppose to be a form of ID but many ask for it any how. I know for years here in Missouri it was the number they used on a drivers license but they change that about 7 years ago and we now have a different number on them

john d · Jan 20, 2012

Possibly don't have to give it, but might not be worth the fight. Anybody who really wants information on you, including your SS# can probably go on line and have it within minutes.

Tom in TN · Jan 20, 2012

Nathan,

Mark B's response to your post is absolutely correct. You are required to provide a Form W-9 to her if she paid you more than $600.00 for rent last year.

I tried to establish a link to copy of the file I have on my computer, but I didn't have any success. You can obtain a copy of the form for yourself by going to www.irs.gov and searching on Form W-9.

You can't fight city hall or the IRS.

Good luck,

Tom in TN

TimV · Jan 20, 2012

Assuming you mean the standard 4473, it says right on the form that your SSN is not required and is only needed to minimize the chance of mistaken identity.

John730D · Jan 20, 2012

Again, Mark's answer below is correct, but if you don't want to give her your SS number, I am sure the IRS will be happy to explain it to you.

tomstractorsandtoys1 · Jan 20, 2012

We have a tax payer ID number that is different from SS number.Our tax preparer did this several years ago and we use it instead of SS number on 1099 and W2 forms.Even on farms we rent I hate asking for SS numbers, as I would just as soon not have other peoples info. but the IRS requires it.

Dean · Jan 20, 2012

Call the IRS (or go to to www.IRS.gov) and get an EIN.

There is no reason to give your SSN to anyone for business purposes.

Dean

Mike (WA) · Jan 20, 2012

How the world has changed in the last 40 years.

When I was in Basic Training in 1969, military had just changed over from "service number" to using your SS# for your military ID number. Of course, 9 digits is quite a bit for some of us to learn, so to "help" us learn, we had to memorize it and sing it out, at full voice, in front of the mess hall before we could go to chow. Everybody carried a little paper in their pocket with the number on it- you handed it to the Sergeant, you hollered out your number, and if it was right, you went to chow; if not, you went to the back of the line to "study" some more. Some of those poor buggers liked to starved to death.

Never did quite understand why we had to scream it out at full voice (followed by the obligatory "Drill Sergeant", of course). Probably because EVERYTHING said to the drill sergeant was at full cry.

Nathan (SD) · Jan 20, 2012

I now see on the W-9 form that the fine is $50.

old · Jan 20, 2012

Well you had to yell it out because all the company commanders deaf in one ear and can not hear out of the other so you had to yell it but then if they let you speak like you should have then they would not be deaf LOL

Anonymous-0 · Jan 20, 2012

If you feel you have to give her something, give her the first initial of your last name and your last4.... These are not the times to be passing your SSN around... You shouldn't be answering any emails asking for SSN or account numbers......

Clodbuster · Jan 20, 2012

Dave2, if you give up the last 4 numbers, it is usually easy to come up with the rest depending on what state you were born in and what year you were born.

That is unless you claim to be born somewhere and are using a number that you stole from someone else in another state that you never lived in and can't pass E-Verify.

I better stop before this gets poofed!

Anonymous-0 · Jan 20, 2012

(quoted from post at 13:21:47 01/20/12) Dave2, if you give up the last 4 numbers, it is usually easy to come up with the rest depending on what state you were born in and what year you were born.

That is unless you claim to be born somewhere and are using a number that you stole from someone else in another state that you never lived in and can't pass E-Verify.

I better stop before this gets poofed!

you been watchin too much TV........

Anonymous-0 · Jan 20, 2012

This SS thing has a bunch of farmers talking around here, seems any expense over $600 must have a 1099 or a W2 to be counted. I have heard the fine is $50 or more. Best to call tax people I don't think us experts on here will pay your fine if we should rarely make a mistake.

Chip812 · Jan 20, 2012

1099? You working for her for cash? I thought she was renting from you... ????

pat sublett · Jan 20, 2012

The reason for the rule, of course is to report your income. If the IRS suspects income tax evaision as your motive for refusing , it could get very expensive.

NCWayne · Jan 20, 2012

Lie others have said it is required. That said you can easily call and get an EIN to use in business transactions where they would otherwise ask for your SSN.

crotchity · Jan 20, 2012

Well,things have gotten out of hand on the SS# being required for everything.I will NOT give my SS# to anyone for anything unless it pretains to social security. There are many ways to identify a person without disclosing a social security number.As others have said,an EIN will get them of your back about the SS#.

JMS/.MN · Jan 20, 2012

That WAS a proposal. It did not go through because the govt realized the paperwork would be mind boggling. There still is the requirement for certain kinds of expenses of $600 or more, just like in the past.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 20, 2012

Crotchity, we are both crotichity,I refuse to give anything up unless I have to.
Some years ago in Oz we had a referendum for a National identicication card and it was defeated.
Now to prove your identity you are called on to produce your drivers license {pseudo i.d.]
This particularly happens at clearing sales.When called on to do so I ask whether they are a member of the Police force because I have to produce to them and in relation to a motor vehicle.Not to anyone else.
Should she the expression on their face, they are taken out of their comfort zone and totally stuffed. Great to observe.
They look at me as though I am some freak, probably am, but don't want the world to know.

barnE · Jan 20, 2012

Nathan, please talk to YOUR accountant or tax man, not hers. Landlord for 20 plus years, n ever heard of that one. Please check, I may have been overlooked. Dave

Owen Aaland · Jan 20, 2012

(quoted from post at 14:35:30 01/20/12) I now see on the W-9 form that the fine is $50.

In addition if you do not furnish a SSN or EIN, the person or company that is required to send you the 1099 for payments in excess of $600 is supposed to withhold 25% of the payments to send to the government. They want to be sure they get their cut for taxes.

john in la · Jan 21, 2012

Mark has the correct answer.

She is most likely claiming her rent to you as a bussiness expence. You can use a tax ID # instead of your SS #.

This new rule is going to be a nightmare.
You get a apartment painted it cost you over $600. You then take this off your income taxes.
So that they can make sure it is a legitmant expence and that you are not taking deductions you did not get service for; and also to track the income of the painter to make sure he includes all income; a form 1099 must be given to the painter by you.

Think about it. Every farmer; landlord; any kind of small bussiness. Every time $600 is spent a form 1099 needs to be sent.

Quote........
Reporting of Goods and Services

Starting in 2012, businesses of all sizes -- there is no small business exemption -- must start to report their payments for goods and services of $600 or more. This provision, which was a funding mechanism for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (“external_linkcare”), has come under considerable criticism by business leaders as well as Congressional members and those in the Administration. It is an administrative nightmare! As a small business owner you will have to track payments to all firms you do business with, obtain their tax identification numbers, and then issue a 1099 to them.

MarkB_MI · Jan 21, 2012

The 1099 requirement of external_linkcare was repealed last year. You already were required to do a 1099 anytime you paid someone more than $600 in services; external_linkcare added the requirement for goods. So the 1099 requirement is now back to what it was before: You must file a 1099 anytime you pay someone more than $600 in services, but for goods you just need to keep receipts.

john in la · Jan 21, 2012

I did not know that part was repealed.
Thanks

Fine for not providing SS no.

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