Growing grain....LONG

Okay, so I got to thinking...

Working on the taxes and I was alarmed to find out how little net we made on hogs and layer chickens this year. When I think of the hours of labor, let's just say it was very disappointing.

The layers are a non-issue about cost. They still made a decent profit and excellent cash flow. Plus we mostly have them as a foot in the door kind of thing. We raise a large market garden, and people who come out to buy eggs or that my wife sells to in town or at farmers market will also normally buy produce in season.

The hogs, however, need to make a good profit. Obviously if your feeding growing pigs for months, and only culling sows every so often, then cash flow is going to be difficult. So I want to see a pretty good profit to make it worthwhile.

We have sold weaner/feeder pigs, butcher hogs live on the hoof, and also paid for inspected butchering and sold sausage and meat by the cut. Butcher shop charges in our area have been climbing steadily over the last three years (what else is new). So recently I have tried to sell most of the hogs on the hoof and let the customer pay the butcher.

The wild fluctuations in grain prices have driven me crazy. Unfortunately, when I need to buy lots of grain, the fluctuation tends to always be upward!

So, as I said, I got to thinking. Would it make any sense to grow say, 30-40 acres of corn, use a corn picker to harvest, feed cob corn and just buy the protein supplement? I've got the basic equipment, just not a planter or picker. Or maybe I should just accept the current price structure and price fluctuations as normal and try to get more for what I sell? Not to gore anyone's ox, but if I could feed non-GMO corn, there are quite a few people around here who have expressed an interest in buying pork. (I don't know whether they would also be willing to pay a premium for their meat.)

I realize I would be taking sizable risks that I could avoid by purchasing grain. I also realize that I am probably not going to be saving tons of money. I am just trying to figure out how to make this hog business more predictable, money-wise.

Sorry for being long-winded. I figure there are folks on here who might have interesting insights and I'd like to hear them.

Thanks for your time.

Christopher

Can you talk to an intelligent county extension agent? He could help you assess the true likely productivity of the acreage in question. One of the problems I have is some of my ground almost needs a perfect growing season to produce a profitable crop. I do what I do in terms of cropping because I have assessed the risk of planting a given crop on a given field prior to planting. There are some field I will not plant corn on because there is too much probability for loss. If the field is very heavy in topsoil texture with a very dense subsoil then you will have to depend on timely rains and a warm season to produce a good crop. Soil moisture will be a limiting factor in these fields even where modern tillage and planting techniques are employed.
Again, I would start locally as the County FSA and Extension will have information regarding soil type and typical productivity in your area. This information will be critical in making a decision. For all we know your soil may have more economic value in producing something such as hay which could be traded or sold to buy the grain you need. I know guys who can only get 120 bushel per acre corn using modern seed and technology but can make in excess of 6 tons of dry hay in most years and not have the risk in inputs like corn has and make more value per acre which is the ultimate goal.

A very good question.

15 years ago, livestock feeders openly laughed at grain farmers, and said why should they grow grain when they can buy it for 70% of what it would cost them to grow it.

Tables have turned, grain farmers developed markets to other countries and ethanol and now with world ecconomies grain prices appear higher, there are more markets to sell grain to.

Farming is always cycles like that. The schools - from high school FFA to college to your banker will preach specialize in one enterprise and you will get good at one thing.

But over time, the cycles catch up with the specialized farm and crush it. The diversified one will often lose money on one thing, make money on another, and come out ok.

The big question with your theory is the land:

Do you own that 30 acrss? Is it paid for? What could you rent it out for?

A 1000 acre grain farmer specialist is in the colver right now, and will be able to produce more yield on that 30 acres than you can. He can pay you a heck ofa rent right now.

You'll need to make that non-gmo premium work out for you to overcome the smaller yield you will get.

But you have some good thinking, and a good plan of how to get to a better place than what you are.

Good question.

Personally, ear corn works with cattle a lot better than with hogs I think, but I don't remember so much about hogs, I was 5 years old when dad hauled the last hog off this place. My cattle are seeing very little grain any more, slower growth but can sell the grain for bucks, let the cattle graze & gain slowly on poor lands.

Biggest question is that chunck of land. Don't go the wrong way, and devalue the land income to match the current hog income - you need to bring the hog income up to match what land can bring in these days.

--->Paul

If you are planning to raise corn to be fed to hogs, forget about the picker and corn cob meal. Hogs have a simple stomach like humans and can not digest corn cobs. Either shell the ear corn before grinding, a labor intensive dirty job requiring extra equipment , or use a combine for harvest.

Advice from a former hog farmer. Joe

You"re so right about livestock folks saying it was cheaper to buy rather than grow grain. I sold a lot of corn under 2 bucks, and as recent as Spring 2010 waited weeks for it to get up over 3 bucks. Witness the growth of large poultry and hog operations. Turkey market went that way by the late 50s. By the 90s the hog market was largely vertical. Private owners out, new mega feeders just shoveling schitt for a different banker, "thinking" they are still farming.

Chris, I just want to interject something here, I met a man from Neb. six or eight years ago and he was big into organic farming. However he raised a dozen head of steers every year and had them sold before they hit the butcher shop. He did not raise them as organic certified, he said it was too much paper work. He said he had the same customers year after year because of the meat quality, he also stated it put four of his children through college.....

Feeding ear corn to market hogs will bring you up to 1940s technology. Extremely wasteful! You"ll be feeding them literally months longer. Shell, grind, mix. Ground ear corn for sows is different- they need bulk, have all day to eat, and may not be so bored. Ground alfalfa is a plus for them. Limited amount of distillers grain is a good option for both sows and feeders, even with their single stomachs.

I don't know how you guys do it. Buying corn to feed livestock. I feed everything I grow to cattle to finish them out,but if I had to buy the stuff instead of growing it,they'd be out of here as weaned calves.

(quoted from post at 12:40:50 01/11/12) I don't know how you guys do it. Buying corn to feed livestock. I feed everything I grow to cattle to finish them out,but if I had to buy the stuff instead of growing it,they'd be out of here as weaned calves.

Click to expand...

I know a couple of guys who are talking about quitting cause they have to buy feed.


I raise feeder pigs and because I'm buying corn I'm not making a real good profit on it. But I getting paid a prenium for the pigs on none GMO corn, pastured and hay. I'll start taking orders in the next couple of weeks and they will be sold long before I buy the first one this spring. Next year I will have about 70 acre to play with of crop land. I'm currently looking around for an older small combine and corn head because I can raise it cheaper than I can buy it.

Rick

intelligent county extension agent? Thats an oxymoron

I have known some good ones and some terrible ones. Still he is going to need local input to know what the best use of the ground is. Lots of guys made good money from hay over a lot of years even though many of those years it had to be done in a labor intensive manner. Lots of guys lost their shirts here trying to make a go at corn because it was easier work but the yields were marginal and the profits seldom.

Agreed!!!!

Like oldtanker says, I also know some guys who buy their grain that are talking about quitting. Ones I know are dairy farmers. I grow enough for my own use and usually have some to sell, too. Also have started doing a little custom combining for a few neighbors. Diversify...

i don't think he's talking about grinding ear corn for the hogs... just feeding corn on the cob. i've done that. pick it, and dump enough ear corn for a day. they'll eat the kernels off the cob. they will waste some kernels though...

here's another thought: what can you feed the hogs that you can get for free or very cheap to replace some of the corn? they'll eat just about anything ya know...

Two thoughts. First, I don't know how big you are or how far you want to get into farming. If you're small, you don't have the acreage and can't afford to buy the machinery to farm. If you have a few acres, you may get the ground custom farmed, and avoid the expense of machinery. Have someone else plant and harvest, you pay for inputs and the cost of having the work done. That will save you a bunch of bucks.

If you're a bit larger, and have the ground, and are dumb enough to want to be a farmer, hardheaded, stubborn, don't mind hard work for low or no pay, and insist on loosing your fortune or at least not leaving any for the kids, start by getting your crops put in on a custom basis, visit the sales as you have money, and slowly buy the machinery you need at a lower price. Add ground when you can, and treat your landlords well. Build when you can, and when it pencils out. By the time the pencil is worn out, and it's time to retire, the kids can take over or sell your spare parts repository for scrap, and you sit back with your aches and pains and think of all the fun you had getting there.

If you really want to go cheap, feed them oats, barley, or beans of anytype instead of corn. The oats and barley can be sown with a drill or broadcast. The beans could be too, but row cropping them would allow for better weed control. If you work it right, do a rotation of the grains and the beans to save on fertilizer. If you could get by without row cropping, a good, cheap setup would be small tandem, a fertilizer slinger or grain drill, maybe a chisel plow, and an AC allcrop combine. Except for grain storage and hauling, you should be able to get all of that for 1500-2500 bucks, maybe cheaper if you are careful in your shopping. Hogs really like oats and barley, espcially if you wet it some and let it sour some.

well I guess i don't understand why you cant make money buying feed i feed 20 feeders a year in 2 batches of ten each hog gets roughly 750lbs of feed cost 180$ to feed and i sell 260lbs hogs for $1.5 lbs live weight then the customer pay the processor. I'm working with a local co-op try to make a deal they own the processing facility and have well established markets 3 local organic groceries and several high end restraunts plus they have a CSA and a butcher shop the will pay me 80% of what they sell it for and minimum is $4 a pound by the cut so a dressed hog 145 hanging weight times $4 is $580 and i get %80 and that is $464 and i have 230 in each hog. yes i feed non gmo and no soy they get a organic protien supplement and i feed some alfalfa. also this year i'm experimenting with fodder beets aka mangals its a large beet that is nutrient packed and has incredible yeilds per acre they have been a major crop in england for feeding animals for hundreds of years. what are your inputs. i've never raised hogs any other way and with only 10acres to play with i don't have many options. Now as to raising corn i rotate a 6 acre (my only rented field) alfalfa field plowing one acre every year for corn and applying all the manure i can get and planting with liquid fertalizer (fish emulsion and compost tea) and i cultivate with a 4 row cultivator and the first few years my yields were 80s ish now im getting 150 and with organic corn at 10ish a bushel on acre does awsome with the only inputs being fuel and seed price and the cost of the fish emulsion.

Another way to increase profit is to heritage hogs. May take some time to build clientele but word of mouth would spread. Much better quality of meat and much improved flavor. People will pay a premium for the meat. Check the net for sources. What you raise most likely tastes better that store meat, this would be another step up.

What makes you think you can find 30 or 40 acres to rent for corn. And if you can rent acres just because you want to, then I would rent 300 or 400 and plant it to corn and forget about all the animals. Not trying to be a smart azz but around here renting land has become so competitive they almost kill one another to get it.

I doesn't matter if you grow it or buy it, it costs the same, you just don't see the money leaving your pocket when you raise it. That corn you raised for 3.00 could have been sold for 5.00, the cost to feed the pigs is the same. The one benefit of buying grain is the manure, it would be a net gain of nutrients for the farm.

My two cents.
Nate