Way O/T: Beginnners guitars

So my second daughter (14 yo) comes up to me and wants to learn how to play the guitar. She has already found a cheap one on Amazon. She just wants to learn a little and then get lessons in the springtime. When I read the reviews on the guitar she had found, they were not encouraging. So I decided to come here and ask for brand name, price range, etc. advice. I don't want to spend a bundle on something that gathers dust in her closet. But a guitar on which she could actually learn to play music would be good.

So what do you musicians on here have to say?

Thanks for the help.

Christopher

We went through this and made a semi costly mistake. We thought an acoustic guitar in 3/4 size would be perfect for my son. Oops. Turns out the strings on an acoustic are much too tight and rough for younger fingers. An electric has much smoother and looser strings for fingers that are not accustomed to playing. We ended up with a Fender Squier Strat Affinity. It has been an excellent learning tool and while new would have been pricier we bought this one used. For the same money we could have had a Suier Strat (non-affinity) which would have been perfect as well. Most music shops sell kits but this guitar can be bought off Amazon or other online retailers for much less, $100-200 or so. Mate it with a Fender Mustang ($99) for some great sounds. Wish we had never bought the acoustic but it looks good hanging there...

Aaron

I took the notion of trying to learn the guitar one time. Not knowing anything about it I just went to Walmart and bought a cheap one made by First Act. I spent several months learning to play a song or two on my own without training. That cheap guitar sounded so bad I just lost interest altogether. I think if I had bought a better one I might have kept with it.

First thing--find out if she can tap her fingers or foot to keep time with the music she hears on TV or Radio! If she can--then she can learn an instrument. If not-well--don't waste yer cash!
Secondly--what is her attention span when learning anything else? She should practice an hour every night, if it gets that far.
Third: If she starts delaying her practicing, she might not be wanting to learn how to play an instrument.
Thats why you should not buy a very expensive guitar first thing. They aren't any easier to play than a $50 one!
Our oldest son was very adept at learning how to play a guitar. He sat in a room i had made in the cellar, and practiced down there every night for an hour or two. On a Harmony Guitar sold at Sears! No lessons! Lerned it well. Now, he owns a music store in Conn., and puts on music shows for local clubs, etc. But--the only thing his brother can play is the radio! I play the 5-string banjo in a bluegrass group. Self-taught. My brother was tone deaf! Go figure.

I would say another important feature to look for is how it would fit her for fingering the frets

How wide the fret board, How deep, or the thickness the neck is.

If y'all could get her to a guitar shop or a place like guitar center for her to try them out would be my suggestion.

You could ask this question here but be ready for allot of opinions.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php


Pretty much all of the acoustics play different and require varying degrees of difficulty depending on the brand and model in comparison to an electric.

There are some yamaha acoustics that are pretty easy to play and not to expensive. A narrow nut width (distance between the strings) is easier for young hands and if set up with light gauge strings isn't all that hard to fret.

I really think you're best bet would be to get a "decent" guitar. Have it professionally set up and include some beginner lessons from a good instructor. This will at least give her a good start, promote proper form form the get go and hopefully give her the encouragement to continue on her own.

My wife has two uncles who play semi pro, both has said at different times that a beginner should buy a good guitar(local music store), because the cheap ones are so hard to play that kids will just give up. Beating a hammer on an anvil is as close as I will ever come to playing anything.

Probably doesn't really need lessons. Get a book (with the help of the local music store), learn the chords, which chords go with each other, and it pretty much takes care of itself from there. Song books have chords and changes written above the music, and its not too hard once you learn them.

She needs rythm and a good ear for music to make it work- can she sing in tune? As someone else said, can she tap her foot in time to music? If the answer is no on either of those, its going to be a pretty rough go, because to do it right, you have to "feel" the beat, and "hear" what the next chord should be.

And ditto what the other guy said about a 3/4 size- that's what I tried to learn on, and the tight strings just wipe out your fingers. Beginners are easily discouraged anyhow, and nothing like bleeding fingers to make you quit.

You should also consider catgut (plastic) strings to begin with. Sure, they don't have as good a sound as metal, but they're sure easier on the fingers. And sore fingers are probably responsible for more "quitting" than anything else.

Pawn shops are also a pretty good source of guitars.

2 of my sons are into guitars in a big way. One teaches plus plays in a local band and the other has a part time business buying, selling and repairing guitars. His real job is with a sound company (he's like 1/10 owner) running the mixer and set up. They work a 5 state area, plus rent out stage, sound and lighting.

Both will tell you something that I learned the hard way. Don't let money be the deciding factor. I started with "Sears Best". It was a beast to play and the sound quality just wasn't there. When my oldest wanted to start I set him up with decent one.

The best advice I've seen on here so far is to take her to a music store and talk to someone who knows guitars.

Buy it and tell her it's yours until she can play. If she isn't willing to put the work into it you can at least get some of your money back out of it. Once she shows she is serious then it's hers. Now If you buy a cheap one you ae not going to get anything out of it but a good one should get you about 50% back.

Rick

Advise from a music teacher (violinist):

I'm just a violinist, so I can't offer any specifics of guitars, but here is my suggestion. Like nearly everything else, you often get what you pay for. Don't buy the cheapest thing you can find, especially on-line, unless it is something someone is selling used and they don't know what they have and you do. Go to a reputable local music store if you can and have them show you a few. You don't need to buy the most expensive, but go for a brand name that sounds familiar (Yamaha, Fender, etc.). They can even help you make sure it is set up for her. At the very least, you can try some of the more expensive guitars and then have a comparison (it doesn't cost anything to look!). Even if you aren't a musician yourself, the differences in materials and craftsmanship are often very evident.

The biggest difference for a beginner is playability. The cheaper instruments aren't going to sound as good as the more expensive instruments because they aren't made with the same quality materials, but there is a vast difference in playability. Look for good quality tuners so it will stay in tune and make sure it is set up well enough to be playable. I would suggest an acoustic guitar with some light or extra light gauge strings to start out with. You can probably get something like I describe for about $200.

JDNewbie said it better than I can, don't buy anything cheap is the bottom line in my opinion. Nothing will turn an aspiring guitar away quicker than poor action on the instrument and the sore fingers that result.
If you have a friend that's a musician get an opinion on the guitar.

Some good advice already.
Definitely take her to a good local store and have her try several out. Good store help should spend some time with her trying out different guitar necks until they find a fit. The more comfortable, the better chance she will play it more.
I"ve been playing for years and sometimes when I"m off and get called to the stage for a few tunes, if the guitar (bass for me...) neck doesn"t feel right, it"s not much fun after a few songs.

A good friend who runs a local music store and has played for 40+ years offers some great advice to people that come in:
Sit down with your daughter and have her listen to some of her favorite songs and maybe one or two random ones in a different style. Once finished listening, have her describe her favorite part in each song. Or have her hum that part. See what instrument she is humming - that will generally be the instrument for her. Of course, it never hurts to know how to play more than one instrument, but I"ve seen this method work for several kids now.
Last, assuming she"s still going for the guitar and you have shopped for the right brand/feel, there are some great used deals out there (one of the bigger chain music stores has used gear on their website).
Once she has the instrument and is learning it, don"t get too discouraged if she puts it down for a while. A lot of beginners will play for a few months, not play a few weeks go back to it, etc. It just takes time until the bug bites....

Good luck

Tony

I don't find the "you get what you pay for" to be true with guitars. At least not with playability. Old guitars are like old tractors. Some sell for a fortune even if they don't work all that well as compared to some newer stuff. Now - the sound of old electric pickups and tube amps is another issue - but that's not what you're asking about.

My dad had his own country-western band from the 1940s to the 1970s. He had two vices that I know of. Drinking beer and buying guitars. When he died he had over 50. I've got some of them. Back in the late 60s, he was given a $50 new Yamaha acoustic and loved it. He was amazed at the sound for a "cheap" guitar. I still have it and it still plays fine. It plays easier then his old Gibsons and Gretschs guitars which are worth a lot of money. I recently played a new Yamaha F336 and it plays even easier then my old one. Lower action which is nice for a beginner.

You can spend $20,000 or $50 and still might get a hard player.

You need to decide if you want electric or acoustic and work from there. An acoustic usually has bigger and higher strings that makes it play harder - especially with a new player trying to master bar-chords. But you CAN put smaller strings on it. It will lose sound quality but play easier. You can buy a new Yamaha F335 for around $150. That would be my choice if my little kid wanted to learn on a acoustic.

If you want electric - you can buy a new Fender Squire with a cheap amp for $200 total. These cheap (usually Mexican) Fenders play very well.

I find some of these new cheap guitars to be kind of annoying because some play so well. Similar to a new $150 Savage 30-06 rifle I bought recently that out-shoots my pre-64 Model 70 Winchester. The Winchester is much nicer to hold and look at though.

LJD, I think what most people are refering too is new. Yea some of the old guitars are worth money to a collector even old el cheapos. And yea when buying new you do get what you pay for.

Kid starting out needs an insterment that A. sounds good, B. is playable C. is cost effective. Some of the new electric gig package ones are not worth 2 cents and are cheap but sound like crap. And no he has no need to buy top of the line. A good easy to play guitar can be had most of the time in the 200 buck or so range.

Rick

No it's cool.....

I like both acoustic and electric and it isn't hard to find some of each that just don't sound good. Mostly due to cheap materials.

Rick

Yeah . . that's why I cited new prices for "playable" guitars. I played a new cheap Fender Squire recently and it plays amazingly well for a cheap Mexican guitar. Also played a new Yamaha acoustic to compare to my old one.

In regard to what a kid needs? Just like guitars,kids differ too. Some may start, not like it and give up. Others get enthused and at some point, might want something better or different. And sounding "good" is a relative thing. Some people love the mellow sound of an acoustic and some (especially some kids) what only the electric look and sound.

I'm not sure - with your post -if you are agreeing . . . or disagreeing with something I stated?

I agree 100%. Just making the point that I've also played some cheap ones that played beautifully. And considering my Dad's Yamaha is now near 50 years old and been beat on terribly - it's held up very well.

The new Fender Squire I tried was part of a guitar and amp kit for $200. It played nicer then my old and expensive Gibson and Ephiphone. May not have the heart and sound and may not last as long - but for the price - a heck of nice guitar for a kid that wants electric.

You might see what is for sale at Costco. A few years ago, they had Yamaha acoustic guitars for about $150 or so, brand new.

A 14 year old might get really interested and work hard to learn to play a guitar. Or they might very well get tired of the idea and quit practicing after a couple of weeks.

Either way, a $150 to $200 brand new Yamaha should be easy to resell for $100 or more, no matter if the reason for selling it is to upgrade to a better instrument or because no one has touched it for months. Good luck!

chris, i'm not a guitar player, drums and percussion. but played with a lot of guitar players. seek out a good local music store. find the guitar teacher and talk to him or her. have your daughter with. they can select the best guitar for her hand and finger size. also, if you need the instrument serviced, buying it from them will get you better service. at least once a year you will need the action set and neck adjusted. having her take lessons from a good teacher it'll get her in the game a lot quicker, and be more enjoyable for her.

Hi Chris,

If she wants an acoustic, play it safe. Buy her a new D-28 and you're covered both ways.

Finest sounding acouistic on the face of the planet and their value ALWAYS goes up. Hopefully, it should come with a real good hardshell case.

The new ones are the lowest priced; roughly $600. They sound better the longer they age and playability isn't even a factor on a quality instrument like it is on the 'bargin basement' brands.

That way if she loses interest you can always make a few bucks on resale.

Allan

I agree with some of the others here that you don’t have to spend a fortune to get a good guitar, particularly for a beginner who may or may not follow through on their intentions. However, playability is important, especially for a beginner, and that’s not easy to find in the cheap guitars.
My answer was in a guitar maker called ZagerGuitars. You owe it to yourself to find their website. I’m very happy with the guitar I got from them. ( I’m not shilling for them---have no connection with them other than as a customer.)

Allan- where can I buy a new D-28 for $600?? I'm assuming you mean a Martin D-28 here. The ones I've seen are quite a bit more than that.

For the original poster- like mentioned it's pretty easy to get a decent-sounding acoustic in the 200-500 dollar range. I'd stay away from any of the $99 ones, for the reasons already mentioned.

I took lessons when I was young, but kinda gave it up until about 10 years ago. What helped me the most was that these days there are lots of websites that have most any song you can think of listed along with the chords to play including modern ones that your daughter's favorite artist may perform. Once I learned how to play the different chords, I was able to go online and find some favorite songs that I already knew how they were "supposed" to sound, and was able to, slowly at first, play them, and improvement came fairly fast after that.

Along with an easy-to-play guitar that will stay in tune, being able to practice on songs that a person already knows and enjoys is alot better motivation than some being forced to practice unfamilar random songs in your average "beginners guitar songbook".

WOW!

Those things have gone thru the roof haven't they?

I'm just not into acoustics, but my brother bought a new one four years ago for UNDER $600.

Damned dollar is worth the paper it's written on anymore.

Allan

Shoot, here I was all set to order a couple!

Martin does make a nice all solid-wood acoustic, the "15 series"(I have a D-15) that sells new for under $1000, that you can find nice used ones for $500 on up, which is what I did a couple years back. They also have some lesser-priced series which still sound pretty nice, I'd have to go look though to see what the numbers actually are.

My go-to acoustic now however is an Epiphone Masterbuilt, also an all solid-wood guitar, bought mine used but new ones are right at $600, and I think it sounds every bit as good as my Martin. Still wanting a D-28 though!

Bought my son(who can play circles around me) a telecaster last year. He buys and sells and trades electric guitars faster than I can keep up with sometimes, but he's keeping that tele...

If she wants to play acoustic guitar, then that's what to get. If she wants to play electric, then get that. They are not the same instrument, and are not played the same way. It depends on what she wants to do musically, accompany herself singing or play in group as a guitarist.

If she wants to play acoustic, I would look for a decent quality used instrument and set it up properly. There is no reason pressing the strings should be such a strain. If setup properly and you use X-light strings, it won't be that much more difficult than an electric. More difficult yes, but not like you describe.

I would think a used medium/high end Yamaha or Takamine would be a good place to start. They will have enough quality to allow proper setup of string action (how hard you need to press) without buzzing. Because they aren't 'brand' (i.e. Gibson, Martin, Taylor, etc.) you won't be paying a lot of $ for the name.

I also have a Zager Guitar acoustic. You can look up "Denny Zager Guitars" on line. They used to list about $600.00 but I think that they came down a little. I bought mine used that was in new condition and it plays very good.I have seven and this is by far the best. My son bought a Martin and paid about $1,500.00 for his and he says that mine plays easier than his. The Zager is a copy of the Martin but Denny files down some of the frets to make it easier on your fingers. I have no stake in this, but you should check it out. Art

(quoted from post at 19:28:30 01/04/12) I also have a Zager Guitar acoustic. You can look up "Denny Zager Guitars" on line. They used to list about $600.00 but I think that they came down a little. I bought mine used that was in new condition and it plays very good.I have seven and this is by far the best. My son bought a Martin and paid about $1,500.00 for his and he says that mine plays easier than his. The Zager is a copy of the Martin but Denny files down some of the frets to make it easier on your fingers. I have no stake in this, but you should check it out. Art

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I think it important to remember that the action of a guitar is not set in cement. The way a new guitar plays in the showroom is often the result of marketing, not manufacturing quality. Martins are traditional bluegrass and C&W instruments, so the maker wants them to play loud without buzz. Action is set higher at the factory for this reason. Other manufacturers consider ease of playing more important - especially to beginners - and set it as low as possible, and hope it doesn't get played too hard in the showroom.

I have no doubt your son's Martin can be set to play as easily as your guitar. It's all just a matter of setting the truss rod, bridge, nut and string gauge, etc.

Thanks, I didn't know that. My son did mention that he wanted to get a lighter gauge string. I use the lightest gauge I can find as long as the "G" string is wound. I will tell him about setting the neck. I agree with what you said. Thanks for the advise. Butch