Petronix flame thrower for a WC Allis?

Does the Petronix coil help the cold start of an older Allis? I have a new standerd spec 6 volt coil in it now and don't seem to get a strong spark even after setting the points. Any other ideas?

Not really. If yer plugs are firing at say 12k volts thats where the resistance is and even with a hotter coil it's still going to spark at 12k. Thats why the newer stuff with high energy systems are gapped bigger.


How are wires and plugs? New coil from where? Cheap one from TSC or a box store? Go through everything and check, cap, rotor, wires, points, condenser, everything! That includes the primary wire to the coil. Make sure you are getting the correct voltage to the coil. Sometimes it can be something easy like the switch being dirty or going bad and not feeding the correct voltage. Plug gap too!

If you go over to the Ford N forum on here you can find a 50 tips list that can be adapted to other tractors.

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NO, just changing to that coil with no other changes will NOT help much if any (over the long run, see why below) at all the cold starting improvement you're lookin for.

In fact, if that coil has a much lower low voltage primary winding resistance then what a stock coil uses THINGS MAY GET WORSE SINCE YOUR POINTS MIGHT BURN/CARBON SOONER AS IT DRAWS MORE CURRENT THE POINTS HAVE TO SWITCH

NOTE: regardless if that or any so called "High Voltage" coil claims that it fires at X volts or 40,000 volts or whatever, if the plug gap and compression and all else remains the same, IT WONT FIRE AT ANY HIGHER VOLTAGE THEN A GOOD WORKING STOCK COIL. The firing voltage is primarily a function of the plug gap distance and the compression, its just that a so called High Voltge Coil has the capacity to achieve a higher firing voltage if its necessary (like wider gaps or higher compressions)

NOWWWWWWW it can help IFFFFF you swap over to an elec ignition switch and a coil designed to match that switches capacity, since all that can yield more spark gap enery. However a mere coil change while keeping the mechanical points and that switching technology (if all else same) isnt gonna help much and even if it did in the short run the points will burn up quicker if forced to switch more current then designed for.

Id look at things like good points and condensor and new plugs (cap and rotor if needed) and wire core plug wires and a heavy duty battery that drops less voltage when cranking before I bought a non matching high voltage coil, they're more for an elec switch set up or high compression engines etc.

John T

John. it sounds like you are saying that if a plug fires with a feeble red spark and comparing that to a HOT Blue spark across the same gap that there is only the SAME Voltage..??

Seems that the BLUE spark indicates far MORE energy..??? I would think it would indicate far more Voltage available for a Longer time..
Maybe an MSD would be a better choice, then..??

Just curious..
Ron..

Good questions Ron, Okay heres what I AM SAYING:

The output VOLTAGE of a coil isnt instantaneously say 10,000 volts, it ramps up but only high enough until it can arc jump current (thus expending its energy) across the plugs gap, then NO HIGHER. And the voltage required (to arc current across) is a function of the gap distance and medium (compression and fuel) in which it fires.

Now, when the coils primary conducts current x joules of energy is stored and when the current stops and the coils magnetic field collapses THAT SAME X JOULES OF ENERGY (less inefficiency and transfer and heat losses) IS WHAT GETS DISSIPATED WHEN AN ARC OF CURRENT JUMPS THE PLUGS GAP. Electrical energy dissipates in the form of Volts x Amps x Time. (The utility charges you for watt hours)

I agree a visible blue spark is indicative of higher energy versus a faint thin wimpy yellow spark and thats due to more energy which is again more amps or more time or both YET THE FIRING VOLTAGE IS THE SAME.

Now MSD ignition systems, yep those fire not just once but MULTIPLE TIMES (Multiple Spark Discharge) and do (if you believe advertising) improve combustion initiation I guess????? Didnt the old big vibrator coils in Model T's do that same thing yearsssssss ago???? But that requires both a coil and their multiple firing brain box that causes them to repeatedly fire.

Those High Energy ignition systems consist of a coil designed to produce, store and transfer more energy (and can achieve a higher voltage if necessary) versus the old points condensor systems and can draw more current then points can switch without burning up too fast THEREFORE the elec switch is used for faster more positive (no points bouncing n ringing n condensors) switch PLUS AT A HIGHER CURRENT. That system yields a higher energy (volts x amps x time) plug gap spark discharge and fer sure its more likely blue versus thin wimpy yellow.

When you use a high energy coil with points n condensor if the coil draws too much current its not long before the points carbon n burn and create resistance then youre even worse off. If it dont draw much more current then the stock coil then the system dont produce much more energy then the stock system to begin with.

While I see an elec ignition and high energy coil as indeed producing more spark energy but if you just change one component (coil) but still use bouncing ringing burning points I dont think you gain much (subject to coils efficiency) and may even loose in the long run.

HOWEVER if a new super coil has a higher efficiency due to improved magnetic materials and windings yet doesnt draw more current then the stock so the poinst last, Id say that coil might improve starting, but those even new can type coils are still pretty much the same design as used for years. The new high energy auto ignitions have a coil thats an E shape with laminations and they operate by a higher voltage PULSE sort of firing the coils verus the current conduction and magnetic saturation then magnetic field collapse like the old systems.

NUFF SAID, I probably corn fused everyone by now, Ima gettin that way myself. I havent eaten all dern day gettin ready for the dreaded Colonoscopy tomorrow morning grrrrrr I dont mind it, I love to take Versed it chills me out and I dont know nuttin and the drizzlins runs n trots all night aint fun but not that bad except for little sleep BUT WHAT I HATE THE MOST IS TRYING TO FORCE DOWN GALONS OF GATORADE N WATER ALL DAY (later mixed with Miralax) I just caNn drink that much grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr NOW IF THEY LET ME USE BEER HMMMMMMMMM LOL

Hey John T,
Good luck with the colonoscopy tomorrow. Nothing but clear liquids the day before, but scotch is a clear liquid. Right?

Mostly clear, but never acquired a taste for it. I used to like Gatorade but after 2 more big hits still due at 9 and 1 tonight IM GETTING SICK OF IT GRRRRRRRRRR

John T

Thumbnail sketch of what John is saying is that Pertronix coil is only going to produce that 10K-12K to fire your plugs at .025.
If you put the Pertronix module in with that coil, and you open your plug gaps to .045 or .050, you can make use of that higher voltage capability.