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hand gun help

L

luigi

New User
i live in a rural area, getting up in my years and considering buying a hand gun for home security. please assist me in making an educated decision on a good gun selection.
criteria:
low cost gun, low cost ammo, semi-auto, stopping power, able to practice with in the pole barn.
 
There are many options. Depending on how far away you want to be able to take down a potential attacker, the Ruger LCP 380 is a nice, small semi-auto handgun that is easy to shoot and handle, and will probably serve your needs well. I don"t know about shooting in a pole barn, you would need really good ear protection, and a well built backstop. Effective range for a .380 is about 7 yards. The bigger you go, the more range, harder to handle, and more costly. The market is full of cheap semi-autos.
 
Do you really want something based on "low cost" that you are getting for lifetime use, to use in an absolute emergency to save your life??
Get a Sig-Sauer 9mm full frame, I think the model is P226, and practice with it. No safety to flip around when you need the gun. Stopping power is in "shot placement" more than power of the cartridge. You cound use a 44 magnum and miss by a mile, thus more stopping power in a well placed 9mm. Tom
 
altho you are looking for a semi-auto, for a protection gun, i would consider a revolver, like a .38 special. smith and wesson. little chance of jamming in an emergency situation, plenty of stopping power, and not real spendy to shoot.
 
Stopping power and low cost ammo are a contradiction of terms.

9mm is about as cheap as ammo gets, but the stopping power is pathetic.

I once heard of an elderly couple who were watching TV when a couple of hoodlums came charging into their house. The old gentleman pulled out a .44 magnum and fired a couple of warning shots. The hoods stood glued to the spot until the cops came and took them away. Some one commented there was a "brown substance" on the floor where the hoods had been standing.

Seriously, I'd consider a HiPoint .45 automatic. They can be bought new for less than $200, and .45 ammo is plentiful.

I own one, and it's been flawless and accurate. And before the purists jump all over me for buying a "Saturday Night Special", I'll say "the proof is in the puddin'." I also own a Springfield Mil Spec 1911A .45 auto which has also been equally flawless.
 
Get a big mean dog and forget the little pop gun idea before ya kill someone and end up in jail the rest of yer life because you "protected" yourself.

Allan
 
I have an LCP, and I love it! Only I'd question the stopping power.

But, I guess the term "stopping power" is subjective.
 
My vote is for a Springfield XD-40. Its a good heavy round, fairly cheap and the gun is pretty easy to tear down to clean.

I also like my .45 1911 but it is a fairly large gun and it takes alot more work to tear down to clean it up.

This is alot like asking which tractor is better, brand abc or xyz. Best bet is to go to a gun shop hold different guns, look at the ammo and compare. Holding the gun will tell you alot, if its not comfortable and doesnt fit your hand look for something else. When you find 2 or 3 you like post back and i bet someone will have some experience with them.
 
IT IS a big myth that a Colt 1911/45ACP or it's clones are hard to handle. I had always heard this. I found out my wife's cousin had one. We went shooting years ago. I had Dad's 300 Winchester. I shoot his 1911 which was a big disappointment. For me it was easy to shoot. We also shoot Dad's 300 Win and he also had a S&W 41 Mag which was harder than the 1911 to control. Go with the 1911. I always thought it was a mistake for the military to stop using the 1911/45ACP but they did because ALL of NATO used 9MM side arm. I can understand the logistics of everyone using the same ammo.

Kent
 
getting on up in years means weaker and arthritic hands which makes operating a slide on a semi auto difficult. get a good small sized revolver, 5 shot in 38 cal. load a blank in the top cylinder and hollow points in the remaining. if blank does not make them leave then you have the stopping power to follow up with. unsure about practicing in a pole barn.
 
While a lot will recommend the simi-autos,,, and they have no safty.. and even a lot of policemen shoot themselves with them... and even I own several..

I am gonna steer you towards a revolver, a 38 special... easy to use.. hard to accidently discharge it when grabbing it. no kick and easy to aim and fire several shoots.

If your really good, then you can go to a glock or ruger, or s/w simi's but you have to be more careful how you pull it, more carefull of using good ammo, and more careful about keeping it clean,
 
I like Colt 1911's, .45ACP. Very good stopping power.

That being said, a shotgun also works very well and exact aiming isn't needed. An Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer with a 20" barrel is compact and with a bottom eject and silky smooth slide, cannot be beat.

bob
 
I would agree, 12 ga, 20 ga, or even a 16 ga if that's your liking. Get a pump, when you rack that shell into the chamber its makes a sound like no other and anyone that hears it knows what it is. Get a home defense model like the Mossberg 500 Cruiser, all the stopping power in the world and you don't have to worry about a stray shot killing your neighbor. Load it with 4 shot and keep it handy.

You can buy an extra set of stocks for it and use it for hunting too.

I had to spend some time refresshing my wife on how my Fox 311 "shorty" works over the weekend. Apparently one of the foster kid's dad just got out of jail and made some threats towards us - we want to welcome him right if he shows up.
 
12 ga pump shotgun is the best home defense gun you can own in my opinion, a handgun is great for concealed use (Ruger LCP .380). I have a few handguns and rifles, but the 12 ga is the most accurate and devestating to an intruder especially if the situation involves you waking from a sound sleep. A bullet will travel through walls and possibly injure or kill someone in another room. The shotgun is a great close range weapon, cheap to shoot, easy to find, and a great weapon all around for someone that is "getting up there" in years. My choice is an 870 Remington turkey express with the 22" barrel and an extra full choke...put a round or two of #8 shot in someone at 15-30" and they won"t mess with you anymore.
 
(quoted from post at 05:59:53 08/29/11) i live in a rural area, getting up in my years and considering buying a hand gun for home security. please assist me in making an educated decision on a good gun selection.
criteria:
low cost gun, low cost ammo, semi-auto, stopping power, able to practice with in the pole barn.
Click to expand...

IMO the most effective home security gun is a 12/20/410 Ga pump with the chamber empty. Everyone knows what the action soulds like.....someone trys breaking in and you work the action.....you hear running feet. Nice to have home security even better if you never have to pull the trigger.

As fas as hand guns the 9MM/38/380 all are pretty low scoring guns as far as one shot stop is concerned. The 45 ACP rates pretty high. The Rock Island 1911's are under 500 and perform well.

AS far as shooting in a building you will need a good backstop.

Rick
 
Here is mine:
S&W Mod. 27-2 357 Mag
a48056.jpg


And copper jacket hollow points

a48057.jpg
 
yup, dog wakes up usually quicker than its master, and is not afraid that mister intruder might be packing. Getting older means poorer eyesight in the dark, slower reflexes, worse hearing etc. All put you at a disadvantage at night. Dogs seem to see quite well at night.
 
I would get a Taurus Judge, shoots 410 buckshot, slugs, or 45 long colts. You don't have to be, a great shot with the buckshot. zquinn
 
Since you asked about a hand gun. 9mm (cheap rd/low recoil), high capacity magazine, and an inertia type safety (in a panic situation you don't have to remember if the safety is on or off). Sig Sauer has a gun with two interchangable barrels 9mm/40 13/rd. The 40 has more stopping power and is still a cheaper round. You can get a gun magazine/encyclopedia at a drug store. Look at different guns to see waht suits your price range. If you read about home defense, often the first thing that comes up is home invasions. Midnight 4-5 people come at you in your house. Nothing beats a shot gun. While the sound of a pump is scary, it also lets people now where you are. In a home invasion depending on how big your house is, your responce time may need to be less than 5 seconds. *Semi auto 20" shotgun* High capacity pistol and some dogs*
 
Why get a handgun?
Get a 12 gauge pump shotgun. $300 and $10 per box of shells.
A handgun is not as deadly as a shotgun.
Be sure the other guy cant tell his side
of the story when its over.
 
dog and a shotgun are the two best options, if it has to be a pistol, I would go with a revolver-would start with a taurus judge--shoots .410 or long colt--shot a wild hog with one-300 pounds and dropped him like a sack of hammers. the judge may be a little heavy and goes for about 400 bucks. colt python hammerless is also hard to beat pull trigger and it goes off. semi-autos have too many little issues that can go wrong, including jams, accidentally releasing clip, etc...., but if it has to be semi auto--.45 acp is hard to beat.
 
From the question that you asked, the best thing you could do is take a home defense course before you buy any firearm. This may keep you from killing a family member.

When you get done with school, then buy a Mossberg Model 500 12ga shotgun with a 18" barrel, [b:deeaebc25c]NO PISTOL GRIP[/b:deeaebc25c], $299

A dog in AZ will bring the same time as if you used a firearm. Such a sad state of affairs in today's world.

I have both, dog and shotgun!

T_Bone
 
I have a pump Ithica. They will not hear the action. Maybe if real good ears they will hear the safety button click. TDF
 
97 winchester, no plug, 5 in the mag, one in the chamber, and a rep 1860 colt 44 cap and ball. Round ball, 38 grains of 3F powder in 5 holes work for me.
 
Some say racking a pump shotgun will scare an intruder away. It might, but you have just told that intruder where you are located. Some say a 9mm or a 45 automatic, good advice for a younger person but an older person with less strength in their hands will have trouble cycling the action on a auto. My personal choice is a 38 special double action that will also handle 357 magnum with 125 grain hollow points. Enough power to get the job done and easy for anyone to handle
Joe
 
For a gun to use in the home a short 410 is the way to go. Good close range weapon and smaller amount of damage to the home. Most hand guns are not either cheap to buy or cheap you get ammo for. Plus most hand guns at close range you end up with a hole all the way in and back out and that is turn means what ever is behind them has a hole in it also. They do also sell a 410/45 double barrel pistol which is small and good for that guy who should not be where he is
 
Handgun for home security? In Rural area and low cost for ammo? smeiauto? Implied is minamal experience since you"re asking here. SO- first thing is NOT recommending new auto pistol in large caliber. Like a couple others suggest- revolver, .357 or .38 with a 4 inch barrel. .38 wadcutters reloads from target range about as cheap centerfire ammo as you"ll find to get to MINIMUM 500 rounds prctice to be compentent in use. Second consideration like sisters use- Ruger single six with .22 mag cylinder kept as fox in hen house or racoon in barn use- other wise on belt with standard .22 cylinder for rats and beer cans, practice. Couple vans, cars have driven into yard, drivers saw pistol on hip and immediatly left, one van busted 2 days later with stolen property in it and driver with assualt warrant. Other pistol for kin is Ruger .22 auto, has gotten lots of practice and varmit control use plus one hold a cash register grabber for police. The .22 are carried a lot, light and handy and ammo is cheap to practice. A well known simple tool is often easier to use than a big, new, seldom used tool. Other suggestions for shotgun, etc weren"t what you asked, some good suggestions given though. Youngest brother has my old Rossi coach gun- 20 inch barrels, outside hammers, double trigger, was a little guess who gets it between him and other sister. RN.
 
i 'm not a big fan of automatics either though ive owned a buch over the years.brother carries a little amt backup in 380,it sure been a good gun.i carry a old 25 auto a lot myself simply because its very small and out of the way.BUT if it were me ,and i was looking for a sure nuff defense gun thats been proven.i would look at one of those russian markarovs everyone has for sale so cheap.of course if i were expecting instead of just planning for the possibility of a gun fight,i would want one of the colt 1911s ,or a good clone therof.To me those are the cadilllacs.
 
I have and like my little Bersa .380. It is imported from Argentina and sold at gander Mountian stores. Cheap and so far problem free. I was told (for what that's worth) a .380 is comparable to a 9mm short. they have several models of these. (larger clips, concieled carry model). explore them all.
 
I like that Sig P226 suggestion.

Personally if I were you I'd go get some handguns in your hands and not look at the price tag. Find something that fits your hand and feels good to you.

I just bought this.

fnx.jpg


FNX-40 which is made by FN Herstal. These are the folks that now own Browning and Winchester. It shoots real nice and feels good in my hands. I have large hands by the way but they come with different grips to accommodate different size hands.

I went with the .40 for a little more zip and considering I'm going to use it for a side arm when hog hunting. They tell me that the FNX-45 has less recoil than the .40 cal and the .45 should stop anyone coming at you and probably help redirect them back out the door.

By the way, I bought this while shopping for a Sig P220 Saturday at the Fort Worth Gun show. It's a real good fit for me and I love the way it shoots.
 
heres what would be my suggestion,barring personel preferences,go to a gun range where you can rent a variety of guns ,and choose the one you like for a home defense gun,in the largest caliber you can handle.back it up with the largest metal cased flashlight you can get.to me, and this is my personal belief ,theres a big difference in a home defense gun and a personal defense gun.a home defense gun can be put almost anywhere,a personal defence gun has to be carried,and it has be accessable/concealable.it will be used within a short range of possibly five feet to hand to hand combat distance.this means a smaller gun,short barrelled where a assailent cant grab the barrel and twist it out of your hand.two different scenarious altogether,that to me require two different firarms.and in a self defense situation your likely to be safe as long as you can stay out of arms reach.thats why i carry a small caliber auto on me,(theres no way to carry a handgun out of the way,whoever tells you there is is just not doing it).so you want the smallest most unobtrusive gun you can get.on the headboard of my bed is a 8" barreled 44mag.and behind the door is a 12ga coach gun.if you wake up in the middle of the night and a a man is standing over your bed,the odds of you reaching a gun is slim to none for anybody.so you may as well have one you can shoot well.
 
I just bought a new hi-point .40 S&W at Cabelas for 180.00. American made, lifetime warranty. Not pretty and a lil heavy but shoots just fine.
 
I sure would do as goose suggested ,butttttttttt the rocket launcher is way to cumbersome to carry let alone conceal.lol.If and when the ccp comes in effect in Wis, this is my choice to carry, would be an instant death sentence(if slug was placed in the vital areas) so sure hope to never have to use deadly force. my $.02worth. PHIL
a48072.jpg
 
The Taurus Judge is the perfect farm/home defense pistol. Just point and squeeze the trigger...no need to chamber a round or remember whether or not the safety is off.
a48078.jpg
 
Ya and at 10 feet or so you have a guy with a 3 inch hole in him going in and out the back side well depends on what he has on and and where you hit him but either way he is not going far fast
 
As a gunsmith for the last 15 years, I would suggest a short barelled shotgun, If you have your heart set on a handgun, get a revolver!! Something like a Taurus, or ruger .357 mag. That way you can practice with .38 specials. If you seriously want a semi-auto, please stay away from the cheaper ones like Hi-point and jennings!!! They are junk! Cheap stamped out parts, nothing is heat treated the way it should be, and I"ve started to tell people I don"t even want to work on them. I broke down and sold a customer a Hi-point in 9mm a couple months ago. It jammed on the second shot! After 2 boxes of ammo run through it the firing pin mushroomed over and wouldn"t fire anymore. I think you would be much happier with a revolver, however, nothing makes the hair on your neck stand up like the sound of a pump action shotgun being racked!!
 
Cheaper to shoot and in semi-auto would be the .22 LR or a 9mm, other calibers are more pricey to shoot. Very few 22 LR. auto loaders are reliable. A lot of 9 mm to pick from, make sure it is a good brand name gun. I teach concealed pistol classes for my states certification and I see students with thousands of different guns. The cheap makes and models are few and far between for reliability. I would recommend double action in 9 mm in either Sig, Glock, Smith and Wesson. Maybe have a .22 for practice in the pole barn.
 
I like the Judge with 3" 410 buck shot ,but I also have a 357 mag with home defense ammo each shell has 2 #3 buck shot in it
 
Glock has never built a double action handgun, they are all striker pistols. I would avoid the cheaper Smith and Wesson models, or anything else that is double action only. Sig is serious money. Any Ruger is good, and my favorite inexpensive 9MM is the Stoger Couger, it goes on sale for $350 and it is really a Baretta made in Turkey. Also, I have a Ruger standard 22 as well as a Browning 22, they never fail.
 
Been hearing that for years about Hi Point, usually (always?) by someone thats never even pulled the trigger on one. Yet they offer the best warranty in the industry - bar none.
 
They do have a good warranty, and they did replace the firing pin. HOWEVER....I only make $25 profit on a low end gun, and the customer comes to ME to send it back to the factory. I can't do the repairs myself because I am not a certified Hi-point armorer, it would void the warranty. I don't make any money constantly sending guns back to the factory for repairs. Therefore, from now on, I will not sell cheap guns, or work on junk. I just lose money, and alot of time dealing with junk....
 
My pocket gun is .25 Colt semi (Baby 1911 style); in my truck I have .45 1911 (S.A. G.I.). Nightstand gun is Judge .410 with an S&w .41 Mag and a Ruger Mark II 6-inch barrel .22 also within reach. Behind the door is sawed-off (military police surplus from WWII) Savage 12 gauge semi-auto (looks like a Browning).

My first choice in a surprise situation would be the Judge---No. 4 shot in the first cylinder (face and eyes) and buckshot in the rest. Both of these make impressive patterns at 10 to 15 feet. I haven't tried the .45 Long Colt round yet.

Mr. Luigi, I think you should consider this or another short revolver rather than semi-auto, which is more training-dependent. The Judge is as simple as it gets, just point and click. It has an easy trigger and low-profile hammer (won't snag on something when you're trying to pull it). I too am old and getting weaker, and with diminishing eyesight, and I live at the end of a rural road. Of course as they say, the best gun is the one you have when you need a gun.
 
first off my experience comes from law enforcement so you can take my opinions as you wish all just my 2 cents worth. As far as a handgun if you want capacity along with decent stopping power and low recoil go with a 9mm usually most 9mm hold around 16 rounds, a revolver is what it is, you have 5 or 6 shots to get the job done, so if someone wakes you up from a dead sleep would you rather have 16 chances or 5 or 6 to get the job done? i'd go with the semi auto, one thing about revolvers though is they almost never malfunction which is the one good thing about them

now on to shotguns, why in the heck you'd want to rack your shotgun is beyond me, why would you not want that thing at full capacity? say you have 3 intruders break into your house and they wake you up from a dead sleep when they open your bedroom door, you got time to "rack it" aim and take out all 3? your aim will be crappy at best from dead sleep and if you don't train yourself to rack it before you shoot it everytime you will point that gun and start shooting and nothing will happen because you forgot to rack the dang thing amongst all the excitement, meantime they will not hesitate to end you since you are in the middle of an ow crap moment and they came ready to do battle just remember all just my 2 cents worth, best of luck to you in your selection and i would maybe consider a dog if you can have one where you live, best protection money will buy, maybe a lion if you can afford one lol
 
Cause a Mossberg 500 for home defense is a 8 shot with 2-3/4" shells.

If you ever heard a 12ga rack in the middle of the night in the dark, you wouldn't need to ask this silly question.

T_Bone
 
As long as you "fear for your life", in AZ you can be inside, outside, at your neighbors or any other place you see fit to protect yourself or others.

The right to protect law, in AZ is very good!

Dogs can be more iffy than owners as it's harder to prove.

T_Bone
 
Starting from the end of your post: If you want a gun with which you can safely practice in your pole barn, you're pretty much limited to a BB gun. Scratch that idea. Find a safe place to shoot.

That said, the recommendations to stick with a double action revolver are sound. Autos are fussy, revolvers are not. With a hammerless revolver like a Smith and Wesson 642, you can be fairly certain it's not going to go off unless you want it to.

If you insist on a autoloader, the 9mm's are probably the best all-around choice. There's so many different ones I won't make a recommendation. I would avoid the .380 autos, mainly because most are blowblack actions and can be very difficult to rack.

An important consideration is where you will store the gun, particularly since I assume you'll keep it loaded. I highly recommend you get a GunVault or similar pistol safe with a push-button lock. You'll be able to quickly retrieve the gun when you need it, yet you won't have to worry about it being stolen or found by your grandchildren.

You might want to consider a gun with a laser sight. It adds a couple hundred bucks to the price.

Practice!
 
As far as I know Glock is a double action type, I don't know what striker means. Smith and Wesson blows away Ruger auto loaders, just no comparison with the many different ones I have seen shoot. Ruger for revolvers yes, autos, not so much. I have almost never seen the Ruger Mark II pistols ever cycle ammo consistently after the first couple magazine loads.
 
Your right Sonny. Those that never owned a hi-point hate them. Those that have them, love em! Some really good info on the hi-point forum bout guys with hi-points making fools out of the guys with their high end guns at the range.
 
friend shoots a hi-point and likes it. I just don't like how it fits in my hand. haven't seen him miss much with it though.
 
In a double action, either auto loader or wheel gug, the hammer strikes every time the trigger is pulled. In a single action the hammer has to be manually cocked each time the trigger is pulled. The Glock has no hammer, it has a striker. Take a double action pistol, say a Baretta 92. Each time you pull the trigger the hammer will fall, you don't have to rack the slide. On the Glock, if you pull the trigger on a empty chamber or a dud round, it will strike, once,. If you pull the trigger again it will not. There is no double. You have to rack the slide to get anouther hot striker. The Glock is neither single or double action, it is striker pistol. The S&W Sigma pistols (strikers) are lousy, the Ruger SR9 (anouther striker) is a better design. Neither of those are double action either.
 
On a single action pistol, say a Colt 1911, the hammer has to be manually cocked, or it is cocked when the pistol cycles. It is closer in function to a striker pistol than a double action is, but the Glock is not a single action either.
 
You do not have to have a external hammer to be double action. The Glock is a double action trigger mechanism, some people refer to them as a modified double action because of the light double action pull. Racking the slide does not eliminate the double action trigger.
 
I never said anything about an external hammer. I said a Glock dosen't have a hammer. Glocks have strikers. Lets say you pull the Glock trigger on a dud, nothing happens, pull the triger again nothing will happen. On a double action the hammer/firing pin would strike again without racking the slide. That is what double action is. Glock says their pistols are not double action. Are you saying that on a safe action Glock, that uses recoil to compress the striker spring, with hammer that dosen't exist keeps striking with every pull of the trigger, empty, or dud ? Have you ever touched a Glock ? Do your CC students really bring in 1000's of different kinds of weapons ? I have 3 years of Army and 12 years a Sheriff Dept and I could not name 1000's of differrent types of weapons. And what, please do tell, is a "modified douple action". Glocks trigger does nothing but relaese the striker, recoil, cycling it, resets it, not the trigger. I may be Glocks biggest fan, but none of my Glocks are double action.
 
Whoa, easy there tiger, no need to get all excited. Glocks are not considered a single action gun is all I was referring to in trying to give the gentlemen some advice for a gun within the criteria he specified. I just did not think a single action gun would be a good carry gun and most agree, and Glocks for sure are not a single action pistol, nor are they double/single action and no need to get anymore technical then that. Not for sure about the exact mechanics but some call them modified double action, some call them safe action etc. As far as the thousands of different guns, did not imply a 1000 different makes and models.
 
Like i said just my 2 cents worth, when the bad guy breaks into my house i will not be taking the chance of my shotgun jaming because i want to scare him with the noise of it, the last thing he will see or hear is nothing but the flash from the muzzel of my 12 guage. but then again i guess i'm just silly
 
As anouther LE guy I would never rack the 12 ga. If I was in a presumption state or a castle state and I really believed my, or my loved ones lives were compromised, given no other good choices, I hope the bad guy would die with a supprised look on his face. I have been around lots of shotguns being racked, no one has ever ran away.
 
You sound like your certified to work on glocks? My chief wanted me to go to some training so we could do our own repairs but I said no thanks. I like cleaning my Glock 22 but that's as far as it goes! lol
 
(quoted from post at 23:18:24 08/30/11) You sound like your certified to work on glocks? My chief wanted me to go to some training so we could do our own repairs but I said no thanks. I like cleaning my Glock 22 but that's as far as it goes! lol
Click to expand...

If you have any interest in working on guns Glocks are one of the easiest to work on. Very few tools needed, in fact most is dissembled with a simple pick to push the pins out. Now granted I only work on my own personal glocks and not an entire departments. haha
 
No I am not certified to work on them, I just really like them. Being the Glock repair guy must be the easiest job in the world, nothing to do. You can clean Glocks if you want to, but you don't have to, they work no matter how much they are abused. Nowdays though, everybody is building good pistols, and Glocks are just one of many excellent products. I think it is wise not to be the dept repair guy, to much liability. If there ever was a mishap, gun went off when it should not have, or gun didn't go off when it was suppose to, you could easily end up being the defendent in a criminal or civil trial. Best let the manufacture take the witness seat answer those questions.
 
The Taurus Judge has a problem with shot shells.The bore on a 46 Colt is .454, the wads in a .410 shot shell are .410.This leaves a lot of room for gas leakage when a shot shell is fired.
 
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