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Discussion Forum

Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP

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08-22-2011 18:45:55

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Ok, This is my first time posting, ever!! But I am stuck and have read for days and days on these post trying to figure this problem out. I've tried it all on here, so Im going to tell you my story (sorry long one) and hopefully some new ideas will come into play!! we are working on a ford 801 power master diesel, with a roosa master/standadyne Fuel injection pump. The original pump went bad, we ordered a new reman and it came in a few days ago. This is where we are lost?? This is what I done!! I removed the oil pan, and got my #1 cyl 23deg BTDC acording to the flywheel and the actual vision of the piston. I lined up my timing marks on the pump...(what I thought was a timing mark, very faint on new pump), however after doing this it did seem to be very close for the shaft to fit right down into the button in the tractor. I set the flange about halfway, reinstalled my fuel supply line, my return line, my throttle and left the injection lines off. We pulled the tractor until fuel came out the ports. We then reinstalled the injection lines, cracking them at the injectors, pulled tractor again until fuel came out the lines. Closed the lines to the injectors, throttled all the way up and attempted to start the unit by pulling it this time. We began getting a lot of White smoke, finally tractor started knocking and was hitting, but as soon as I shoved the clutch in it would die. We continued this process and by moving the timing by adjusting the flange 1 deg at a time, until I was all the way one way or the other. The only diference it made was it either smoked black, white or no smoke at all. Still same result, tractor would stay running. We pulled for nearly 45 mins attempting this. Still no luck....The pump manufatur guy told me I was 180 deg off, just spin the shaft on the pump 180 reinstall...LOL, that was funny, the pump shaft has an offset that will only let it set down in the button one way....Genius!! Anyway, the tractor will hit when cranking it with the starter if you hit it with a little starting fluid, but will run for maybe 3-5 seconds, then die again. We done burnt one starter up and just had it rebuilt, Im dying here...PLEASE anyone with any suggestions or promising tips, hit me up..I know it was a long story but I thought I would save some time for those of you who were gonna ask me if I tried certain things, just thought Id tell you everything from the get go!! So help me if you can, Thanks so much!!!!Adam

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08-24-2011 17:08:29

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
Ok, thank you so much for everyones input, I took what I could from each person, implemented a little from everyones advise, and we got it fired up. No we got a slight problem with the running part. Here are it's symptoms;;

1) wont start unless you shoot a little either to it, even if its just shut off

2) smokes bad when idle, no smoke when full throttle

3) sluggish to idle up

4) you hear a knocking noise coming from the motor every 4-7 seconds that last about 1.5-2 seconds. When its making this noise, it plums black smoke, pops back thru the air intake however motor seems to balance out.

5) it runs with a mis, however when I loosen up each injector I still hear a major difference, so I cant pin point the injector that doesnt seem to be firing.

6) as odd as this sounds, when the motor is running, it dont hammer like a diesel engine, sounds more like a 4 stroke engine running. The only time you hear it sound like a diesel is when the black smokes plums out and you hear the noise change, and it pops back thru the air intake.

7) now I know some of you are going to tell me to adjust the timing a bit by twisting the pump...DID it already, all the way one way then back again, 1 deg at a time, get more smoke or less, but the popping still occurs, and this mis dont go away....So Im up again for some suggestions, were getting closer!!!!!

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Bob N.Y.

08-23-2011 19:31:10

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
Try this logic. The crankshaft rotates 720 degrees for each time a particular cylinder fires. The injector pump injects fuel to that cylinder one time during that 720 degrees. Your pump isn't 180 degrees off. It is 360 degrees off. Remove the pump, rotate the crank one rotation and reinstall the pump.

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08-22-2011 22:26:57

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
The seller of the pump could very well be right. It sounds if your are 180 degrees off. I find top dead center/compression stroke by just taking the #1 injector out. Easy to feel the compression stroke. The flywheel is marked for the advance.

The shaft in the injection pump could have been put in 180 degrees off for your application. You are right in that it will only go into the tractor driver one way. The shaft has a similar slot and tag arrangement on the internal side too. It is centered and can be installed in either position. You just pull the shaft out about 3/8 to 1/2 inch. DO NOT PULL IT out too far as the governor weights can fall out of the cage. When you can turn it with out the ring moving in the timing window. Turn it 180 degrees and push it back in.

With the pump off the tractor and the throttle linkage held wide open to hold the governor weight you can do it very easily. Then if you pull it out to far you can just put it back in just making sure the cup seals are turned the correct way.

Email me if my post is not clear. I will gladly talk you through it over the phone.

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08-22-2011 22:14:12

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
"LOL, that was funny, the pump shaft has an offset that will only let it set down in the button one way....Genius!!"

ACTUALLY, ajfarms, YOU are the "genius". The pump guy told you the straight truth. The OPPOSITE end of the pump driveshaft has a tang and slot that is NOT offset.

If the shaft is withdrawn out of the pump 3/16" or thereabouts it CAN be turned 180 and pushed back in.

So there you go, GENIUS!

HOWEVER, pulling the shaft out too far will cause the shaft seals too be cut, or the governor may get out of place. NOT a job for the inexperienced and I'm surprised the pump guy suggested YOU do it.

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08-22-2011 20:15:57

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
pull the lifter cover off the side of the engine and watch the lifters as you hand turn the engine over.when the no. one intake lifter closes you will be coming up on compression.with the pump out,rotate to scratch mark you think is in time.look into no. one port of pump head. stick a paper clip into hole,if it finds the fuel port,the scratch is correct

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08-22-2011 19:21:23

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 18:45:55  
Was the 23 deg. BTDC on the compression stroke? If not it would be 180 deg. off. Not just the pump but the piston location. 180 deg. from the compression stroke would be on the exhaust stroke. I'll admit, I am not a diesel mechanic, but just a thought. I know that sometimes things can drive you straight up the wall, and sometimes the answer is a simple one that has been overlooked. Good luck, and keep us posted, I am curious as to what you find.

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08-22-2011 19:33:54

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ShadetreeRet, 08-22-2011 19:21:23  
I am pretty sure that it was on the compression stroke, and that thought has crossed my mind a million times today. I figure in the morning I will take the valve cover off and try to see my valves. Is there an easier way to tell? You cant get the injector out very easy, its in the head under the valve cover with a very small aluminum fuel line goin to it. A little scared to mess with the injector, afraid of cracking that line. So any tips that would be an easy way to see if the number one cyl is on compression stroke would be great. Thanks for gettin back with me so soon too!!

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08-22-2011 22:26:37

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 Re: Ford 801 Diesel??? HELP in reply to ajfarms, 08-22-2011 19:33:54  
valve cover off, roll engine clockwise from the front until number 4 exhaust valve just closed and intake just starts to open. This will be tdc on number 1 cylinder.

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