O/T - Solar Power 101 for shop lighting ?

I have a building some 800' from electricity. Could use it as a
repair shop if I had some overhead lighting, radio, trouble lights.
Maybe a load of 800-1000 watts when occupied.
The south roof is 9'x25' - facing directly south. I'm on the 40th
parallel in Ohio.
I would like to get my feet wet with solar power, but don't (yet)
have my head around inverters, batteries, etc which might make
up a complete system.
Is this a reasonable project?
What components would be required?
Advice?

"What components would be required?"

To begin with, LOTS of money!

It would be cheaper to bury a linr to the building. The price of the batteries alone is huge. How do you shut the system down when the batts get charged.

800-1000w is a lot. Is that figuring florescents?
Figure a 180w solar panel is going to run you ~$450 and you'd want at least 500w of panels, 3 panels gives you 540w.
Then you'd want something like 8000wh of batteries which would only give you 4 hours of run time at 50% usage. At 12v thats 667ah of battery, basically 6 of the big marine batteries at ~$90 apiece.
The inverter is actually pretty cheap, figure you want something ~1500 watt continuous which will give some extra surge power.

So:
$1500 - solar panels
$540 - batteries
$300 - inverter
$300 - charge controller
$2640 total

There will be some extra of course and I've undersized the solar array but you could always add on later or use a gas generator to float the batteries every couple days depending on how much you run them down and what the weather has been like.

Finally theres probably $1500 - $2000 in misc stuff, mounting the panels, wiring and whatnot.

It seems to me its smart to buy the biggest panels you can afford and have a relatively small number of them. I see kits that do 800w in 10x 80w solar panels. I'd rather use 5x 180w panels to do the same job...

So really the big thing for you to think about is "can I cut down on the power used?" Traditional thinking is that each $1 of conservation is worth $5 of production...

Seems like every project I do, needs a power tool at some point. Wouldn't want to bother putting together a shop where use of a power tool or welder isn't an option.

The excellent cost layout by Ludwig points out the problem with solar and "green" power- you'd be in it over 2 grand, and still not enough power to really do anything. As long as there's a drop of dinosaur juice in the ground, people just aren't going to pay the premium for "green".

I gotta go with Gene- bury a power line and call it good.

Not going to get the most intelegent answers here on on tractor topic. Some know what they are talking about.

A couple of questions.

1) is this on a property with power or would the building need a new meter and service if run from the power co.? I have a remote cabin in Pike Co. Oh 600" from the road. Running a line from the road is not an financially sound option as the wire runs $15/ft ($9,000) to install and then they have a $35/mo min fee for line maintenance. So these also play into cost per Kw/hr.

You need to think of a power system as a Cooler of sweet tea. At one end you have people filling their cups from the spicket and at the other you have the party host filling the cooler. 1st. is to estimate how big a cooler is needed. i.e the batteries.

When you say 800 to 1000W is that peek wattage? or a constant draw. at 800W that is ~600kw/hr per month = house usage.

You need to calculate your AH requirements. So take what you want to run and devide by 12. i.e. a 24W compact Florecent bulb will draw 24W/12= 2 amps. How long per day will this run. 5 hr. per day perhaps = 10 amp hours. if you have 10 of these that would be 100AH.

Two L11 golf cart Batteries will hold 225AH (50% drain) Thus these will supply all the lights for two days with out recharging.

Now look at how much time is available to fill the cooler. There are charts for this but in mid ohio in the summer you can assume 10 hours. Ludwig discussed 180W panels/ 180/12= 15 amp thus 1 panel would provide 15 amp hours (for 10 hr) solor day. That is how fast the bucket is being filled. thus in over 7 days =~100 AH. Thus two panels would fully charge the battries from a full drain in a week.

Most stand alone systems also rely on a small wind turbine which can produce 800W or 67A/hr in 10mph winds.

There are many options and going grid is not always the answer.

My opinion is use solor/wind for lighting/radio and small short use of tools and get a 3KW portable gas generator for the power hog appliances that run a short time.

Jeff

Bite the bullet and figure on grid power. There are reasonable solar thing you can do though. One window lights better than dozens of bulbs. Some inexpensive homemade solar heaters made out of twinwalled polycarbonate heats well. etc. PVs plus batteries are a pain.

This shop is on property served by residential service - no new meter required.

Load of 800-1000 watts is maybe 3-4 hours a day; 4-5 days a week.

I've already assumed a small MG set for 120v power tools. Welder would be located at house/garage.

Why not just get a little inverter generator? For about $1000 you get 1000W. Lots cheaper than solar and very portable and handy. If your set on solar though, can't help you on that.
Honda 900 W continuous Inverter

That's a good option- but get the 2000 watt- actually, they're pretty much always on sale somewhere around here for $899. Very quiet.

Another way to go about it would be to set up a small system that will power a few lights then increase the capacity of the system as time goes on. Add another battery or two to increase storage, add a panel or two to decrease charging times and increase capacity. One thing is for sure, it is costly to get into. But electricity from the power company is also expensive. I spend almost $3000 last year to power my home. We heat the house, heat our water, dry our clothes and cook with natural gas, that $3000 is only for lights, entertainment, fridges and freezer, power tools in the shop etc.
I realize a solar system that would provide all the power that we currently use would likely cost in the neighborhood of $20,000 or more.........but at $3000 a year it would pay for itself in under 7 years! Yes there would be some upkeep but the bulk of the system would be paid off.
The high upfront cost definitely keeps people from even trying it but if you had a smaller system you would be more apt to try other things to save power, LED lights, maybe downsize a fridge or freezer etc.
I always encourage people to think outside of the box. I tend to have a "prove 'em wrong" attitude with many things. I applaud your thinking for even asking the question as it is what I'd be looking at doing too if I were in your situation!

I looked at adding solar generating capacity when I remodeled my house. At the time, there was a rebate from the power company for each kWh generated, a rebate from the state and a tax credit from the feds to offset the cost. All of those have gone away or been reduced as of the beginning of the year. It simply didn't make sense in my case. In your case, you need to simply weigh the cost of a buried line against the cost of the solar installation. My guess is you'll find the cost of the solar to be 6-10 times the cost of the buried line.

At this time, solar electric is still a rich man's game.

My neighbor has a building that sets 300ft from electric and they want 2000 bucks to hook his building up.Without a house they don't want to mess with it.He uses a quiet honda generator to run everything.

(quoted from post at 14:39:53 05/13/11) My guess is you'll find the cost of the solar to be 6-10 times the cost of the buried line.

At this time, solar electric is still a rich man's game.

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I agree with that statement but..........once they bury that line and you get hooked up, you pay for the line AND you still pay for the power. With solar you pay for the equipment and the longer you have it, the less you've paid for the electricity it has generated for you.
Solar will eventually pay for itself.

I think I would buy the 2000
honda

I think if I were you I'd be looking into efficiency. What are you running that eats that much power? When our power bill starts creeping up over $50/month I start to get concerned about something being on more than it should be.

Granted there are only 2 of us but we have an electric stove and dryer...

We're in Canada and have Hydro One for a provider. The delivery and distribution charges are way more than the actual electricity. Our bill is average when compared to neighbors.

I BELIEVE SOLAR LIGHTING IS 100% THE BEST! I would rather work in the sunlight than anything else. That being said I would personally bury some 4/0 URD (direct bury good for 200 amps) as this will more than cover your voltage drop from the meter or house however you run it. My second choice would be using a small generator. In this neck of the woods solar is not a real user friendly option and a majority of what is advertised is a joke and the good stuff is expensive. Just my 2cents take it for what it's worth

If the south half of your roof is 9 ft x 25 ft your building can't be too much bigger than a one car garage. Can you move the building closer to your main building site before you run electicity to it?

Eight hundred feet between your buildings is about 1/6 mile. That's a long way to have to walk back and forth every time you need a tool or bolt, especially through mud, in bad weather or at night - normal repair work conditions. You would probably just drive every trip. Buying more duplicate sets of tools isn't cheap either.

A generator would give you a chance to try using the building as a shop for a while without sinking a lot of money in it. An inexpensive 3000 to 6000 watt generator could be a good short term solution for your electicity needs. You should get most of your money back out of it if you sell it.

You want enough generator capacity so that you can blow any fuse and still power the lights without stalling the generator. A 1 HP motor needs about 1000 watts of power minimum. A standard 20 amp 120 volts circuit requires is 2400 watts minimum and may draw over 3000 watts for a shart time before a slow-blow the fuse blows. It's also very handy to have some lights on a seperate circuit so all the lights don't go out when you do blow a fuse.

Be sure to check the duty cycle of any generator you consider, they are never built to run at 100% power for 100% of the time.

I never figured out you CRAZY Canucks... getting your electrifical from the HYDRO company???


(It's a JOKE, OK, a JOKE!)

I gotta be crazy to pay what they want for electricity! lol
I tried one time to figure out all the charges, the way they break it down on the bill doesn't tell you the whole picture..........
I ended up getting as much info as I could and put it all into an Excel spread sheet so that I could calculate what my bills should be. The way they tack on a delivery charge here and there, network charges, debt retirement charge (which I don't know why the customer has to pay) and a few other "fancy" math tricks, even if you used 0KWH of electricity, your bill would still be $28.78. Now they have started us on time of use pricing so you can't really figure out your electric bill yourself unless you watch your meter 3-4 times a day and write down the amount used.

Just for example with the old way of doing things
0KWH=$28.78
100KWH=$40.27
200KWH=$51.77
500KWH=$86.26
1000KWH=$153.90 (because over 600KWH you are charged a higher rate)
1500KWH=$219.30

(quoted from post at 16:53:56 05/13/11) When our power bill starts creeping up over $50/month I start to get concerned about something being on more than it should be.

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So you can see from my example, for $50 we only get around 200KWH.
How many KWH do you get for $50?

(quoted from post at 17:53:56 05/13/11) I think if I were you I'd be looking into efficiency. What are you running that eats that much power? When our power bill starts creeping up over $50/month I start to get concerned about something being on more than it should be.

Granted there are only 2 of us but we have an electric stove and dryer...

Click to expand...

$50 a month? Power bill here last year at 7.9 cent per KW ran $224 to $665 for just the house, garage and drive shed. Going to be more this year with the rate just gone up to 13.5 cents/KWHr. 60 gallon water heater gets run cold at least once a day.
No LP, oil or gas bill so that makes a difference where other folk spend utility costs.

(quoted from post at 10:29:38 05/14/11) I gotta be crazy to pay what they want for electricity! lol
I tried one time to figure out all the charges, the way they break it down on the bill doesn't tell you the whole picture..........
I ended up getting as much info as I could and put it all into an Excel spread sheet so that I could calculate what my bills should be. The way they tack on a delivery charge here and there, network charges, debt retirement charge (which I don't know why the customer has to pay) and a few other "fancy" math tricks, even if you used 0KWH of electricity, your bill would still be $28.78. Now they have started us on time of use pricing so you can't really figure out your electric bill yourself unless you watch your meter 3-4 times a day and write down the amount used.

Just for example with the old way of doing things
0KWH=$28.78
100KWH=$40.27
200KWH=$51.77
500KWH=$86.26
1000KWH=$153.90 (because over 600KWH you are charged a higher rate)
1500KWH=$219.30

Click to expand...

Go to the Hydro One site and sign in with your meter number and billing info. You can follow power consumption down to the hour. No need to keep running out to the meter.

(quoted from post at 10:32:55 05/14/11)

(quoted from post at 16:53:56 05/13/11) When our power bill starts creeping up over $50/month I start to get concerned about something being on more than it should be.

Click to expand...

So you can see from my example, for $50 we only get around 200KWH.
How many KWH do you get for $50?

Click to expand...

370 KWHr for $50.00 all in with rate, delivery losses, debt, taxes/government theft etc.

200KW/Hr in a month??? We use 70-80KW/Hr a day in the off season when the heat, AC or pool pump isn't on.
That averages at 277 watts per hour, less than three 100W light bulbs???

You should have a generator for standby power for you main buildings. If you don't then as others have stated, purchase a 2000W inverter generator.
That said you could obtain a 100W solar panel or two cheap from ebay and some 12V DC fluorescent or LED lights. 120V, 1500W/2000VA inverters are cheap now.
Build a lean to or an extension on the other buildings that are already serviced for a shop.

Jan, 2009 we used 546 KWH for $59.95, or 10.9¢/KWH

Apr, 2011 we used 423 KWH for $56.77, or 13.4¢/KWH,
a 23% increase.



"Rates will necessarily skyrocket ..."

Go to the Hydro One site and sign in with your meter number and billing info. You can follow power consumption down to the hour. No need to keep running out to the meter.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll check that out.
Our year round average is 1368KWH per month. Winter time we have a few heat trace lines plugged in in the barn and on some water lines, nothing too significant. Only other things that use electric are the furnace, which is gas so it's just the blower and vent motor, occasionally I will use an electric heater in the garage but I really try not to as it is a real hog on electricity (220V construction heater). The majority of our "high use" appliances are all natural gas. Except for the A/C which doesn't seem to make a huge difference.
So if we avg. 1368 per month which is 16416 a year...........315KWH a week, 4510 watts a day or 188 watts per hour.......that does not sound like a whole lot. Less than 2 100 watt light bulbs per hour. I don't see how I could improve much on that.