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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA

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S2710

03-15-2012 08:34:49
98.143.227.89



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I live in Wi. and looking at the rules in wi. to drive my pickup with a gooseneck trailer (8000 lbs. truck and a 14000 lbs. trailer =22000 lbs.) I do not need a CDL. If I load my tractor on it (gross wt. of everything is under the 22000) and go to a show in MI. Ind. Ill. Mo. Ia. and Minn. will I be legal? If it is not legal could you post a link to where the law states that. Also I am not going to profit in any way from this, only going to the show to enjoy myself and particpate in the show. Thanks

Bob

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buickanddeere

04-03-2012 18:47:33
209.240.125.49



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
In Florida all you need for a drivers license is a pulse, respiration and cash.



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john_Bud

03-30-2012 17:00:16
173.245.138.22



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Bob, bad news. You may not need a CDL, but according to WI statute you need a USDOT number. The number is free, but the "other stuff" is far far far from free. Commercial insurance, drivers log, inspections, etc etc.

Here's a WI link on the need for the USDOT number. Look at page #3 closely. As it reads, it does NOT matter if you are "commercial" or private. If the truck and trailer with load is 10,001 pounds or more -- you NEED it. The only exclusion is for intrastate travel only IF you have farm plates on the truck AND trailer. This is a WI statute -- not federal.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/docs/usdot.pdf

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John in La

04-03-2012 15:19:02
68.222.28.241



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to john_Bud, 03-30-2012 17:00:16  
John.......
Can you copy a paste the line that says private trucks need a DOT # because I can not find it anywhere except for 15 or more passengers.



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S2710

04-02-2012 18:52:30
98.143.227.89



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to john_Bud, 03-30-2012 17:00:16  
John thanks for the link. On page 3 the last paragraph under who needs a DOT number it says WHEN YOU REG. YOUR VEHICLE IF YOU CANNOT PRODUCE A NUMBER YOUR APPILICATION WILL NOT BE PROSSESED. I reg. both the truck and the trailer at the same time and no one asked any ?. I also was telling my son about this and he said the state patrol stoped him and told him he needed the DOT number, so he got one and he started getting all kinds of letters with forms to fill out. He found out later that he didn't need a DOT number anyway. He has the same size rig as I have and also lives in Wi. We both only haul our own things and never for hire.

Bob

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730d se

04-03-2012 05:04:53
68.189.186.53



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 04-02-2012 18:52:30  
Once again, there is confusion about WHY the laws are what they are. Your rig does not know or care who ownes what is on it when you have an accident.
The laws are there for everyone's safety. Based on what we know about experience, my thinking is that a "farmer" with farmer tags to skirt the laws is more dangerous than a seasoned veteran truck driver hauling for hire.
If your rig weights is over 10,000 LBS, you are required by law to have a DOT number. It is a way for us to track legal versus illegal hauls. It has nothing to do with the fact that you may be hauling your own toys to a show, or going to pick up the next project.
It has nothing to do with who ownes the load. Those laws are to collect taxes and protect us from 911 issues.

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Retarred

06-09-2012 12:02:41
173.202.186.51



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to 730d se, 04-03-2012 05:04:53  
I think you need to get a clue "IT's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY" not safety! you are brainwashed thinking everyone out there is a hazard. Some of us still have a brain, and common sense.



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FarmerZeb

03-20-2012 17:49:14
76.92.176.221



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
we are reading things the same way then... this post jumped from cdl to dot # and i didn't keep up...

anyways i think this will continue to get more complicated as states get greater concern for public safety and want more revenue.
25 years ago the pickup truck that hauled 20k plus lbs was a rarity but that is not the case today. as these become more common so will the regulations surrounding them.

-paul

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FarmerZeb

03-20-2012 16:06:46
76.92.176.221



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
John,

i am interested in your interpretation of the whole compensation topic. Many states utilized the Farm exemption in their regs. Since hay is agriculture you can legally haul your tractor (in state) to cut hay and sell it(the hay). Now if you were hauling a tractor and doing residential landscaping that would not be ag and you would need a cdl of some kind even in a state with a farm exemption.
your thoughts?

-paul

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John in La

03-20-2012 17:36:16
68.222.28.225



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to FarmerZeb, 03-20-2012 16:06:46  
Paul........
We were talking DOT numbers but you list CDL in your post so I really do not understand your question. But here goes.

Farmers are only exempt from CDL rules within 150 miles of their farm and some times if that 150 miles crosses a state line this exemption is withdrawn. This exemption is allowed to the state at its desresion by federal law. In other words it is up to the state if farmers are exempt. Every state I know of allows this exemption.
The feds also allow this exemption to others like fire and police to name two.

A DOT number.

Every comercial truck over 10,000 lbs needs one. Farmers are NOT exempt as a whole.

Now with that said some states do not require a DOT # for intrastate use. Farmers or any one else that moves intrastate only does not need the number.

Some states do require a DOT # for intrastate use. The ones marked in green.

Some of these green states exempt farmers from the rule intrastate. Iowa is one of them.

All interstate use needs a DOT # farmer or not.

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S2710

03-19-2012 19:00:04
98.143.227.89



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
Thanks everyone for your input. Just to let you know I do have the Class A CDL with all the endorsement except HasMat. As far as the DOT number I found this link and I am not going to worry about getting one. I copied this and I put it in my glove box, so I can show it to anyone that thinks I need one. I also have a set of triangles, first aid kit, and fire extiguisher in the truck. I also called the federal DOT office in wisconsin and he said if the scale is open and in wi. anything over 4 ton has to pull in you had better. It is better to pull in and get waved through then get chased down and have the man MAD. Again thanks everyone for your input.

Bob

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41 Frank

03-18-2012 18:10:54
50.122.46.102



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
The info I am getting here in IL is, you will need a CDL because of it being a combination vehicle. It is like religion, interpretation!



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VicS

03-16-2012 19:01:44
166.250.100.205



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
I have a rig the same as yours, All states should be the same, they are Federal rules/laws. I have a cdl and a dot no. because I have a 80000 truck. and run multiple states. But when I haul my pulling tractor I am just having fun. I don't pull into weight stations, etc. I have been to meetings sponsored by the Farm Bureau, they say the same thing. The main thing is to drive carefully, have all your lights working, have the reflective tape around your edges. Don't speed! don't crowd the limit! 70 in a 65. Don't have loud exhaust! One chain every 10 ft, (3 on every tractor) you will never be bothered. Vic

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730d se

03-19-2012 08:13:01
68.189.186.87



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to VicS, 03-16-2012 19:01:44  
The Fed rules are the same, but the states are allowed to add to these rules. This makes it a crap shoot between you knowing each states variances to the rules and how the DOT bears want to interpret them.

Keep in mind what my father said, "if you want to find the real problems in anything, follow the money trail."
They figured out years ago that they can get a load of money from truckers and that has become what determines the rule interpretation.
Are you going to take time off from work or the farm to drive back several states to court to try to reduce the ticket? Likely not and they know that.

Asside from the DOT and CDL issues, if you are involved in an accident, those greedy ambulance chasing lawyers will have everything that you own.

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puln70

03-16-2012 14:51:27
72.241.3.180



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
If you do a google search for FMCSA it's the federal site,there's a quiz on it that will tell you what you need.



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ericlb

03-16-2012 05:51:35
12.189.32.54



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
i would call the mvd in each state and ask, also get the name of the person who gave you the info, here in nm while i have a class A cdl with numerous endorsements, the back of my drivers licence has a ledgend printed on it and it states that for a regular licence, you have a 10,000 lb towing limit, this also applies to a class B cdl, ie according to the gov, you can drive a tri, or even a 4 axle dump truck, but you cant take your backhoe with you on a trailer behind you, unless you upgrade to a full class A , this limit does varry state to state so its not a easy question, as for a dot# as i understand it as long as your not pulling for hire, and you own everything you have on your truck and trailer, you dont need one, also from experience, be advised all this seems to be open to inturpretation by the individual dot cop doing the roadside inspection, whos experience will varry, some are highly trained proffessional people who know their job, others are fresh, and should be reassigned to being a mall cop, as they will prove that dont know anything about the transportation industry, these guys are supposed to be under the supervision of a superiour officer, but out here in the west they arnt always

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730d se

03-16-2012 05:12:04
68.189.186.87



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
One of the confusing points to how all of this works is, people think of "commercial" as being in the business of hauling for hire.
It has nothing to do with that per se. It is the name given to rigs that have the capabilty to haul over 26,001 LBS or a trailer that is over 10,000 LBS.
This is all about safety. I have said it before, and I will say it again.
All of these "excuses" that people try to use to roll a CDL rated rig over road go away if you or your family are hit by one of them.
People that are not properly trained, do not drive and handle heavy vehicles on a regular basis, are indeed more of a hazard.

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puln70

03-16-2012 03:50:57
68.75.111.228



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
I really doubt that he needs a DOT# since he is not hauling for commerce.Once you get one then you better get a logbook & med.card & get your truck & trailer inspected every year to be legal.



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d beatty

03-15-2012 20:44:55
24.12.128.253



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
You asked about DOT number. If you go to US Department of Transportation Federal Motor Carrier Safety AdministrationIt says to need a DOT number you need to operate a commercial vehices transporting passengers or hauling cargo in interstate commerce and must be registered with the FMCSA. It goes on with more that wouldn't pertain to you.



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John in La

03-15-2012 16:29:47
66.157.27.180



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
As long as the truck + the trailer has a gross weight rating under 26,000 lbs you do not need a CDL.
If the combo weight rating is 22,000 lbs and you weigh less than 22,000 lbs the only way you could have trouble is if you do not have it spread over the axle evenly.

Will you have trouble for not having a DOT number. That is a whole new can of worms.



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S2710

03-15-2012 19:46:58
98.143.227.89



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to John in La, 03-15-2012 16:29:47  
John would this apply to the DOT number thing?
under Exception # 3



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John in La

03-16-2012 19:09:50
66.157.27.101



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 19:46:58  
Bob;
Yes 390.3(f)(3) does give you a exemption from a DOT#. The problem is does the cop that stops you feel the same way. Some think that entering a show makes you eligible for a prize. It might be best tractor and the prize may only be a ribbon but it is still compensation.
Stupid if you ask me but that is the way it is.

Lets put it this way.......
You haul a tractor with a brush cutter to a piece of property you own to cut your grass. You are exempt.
You haul this same tractor with a sickle mower that could be used to cut hay to a piece of property you own and you got real problems.

The difference is hay is a compensation. You either sell the hay or feed it to cows that you sell. You are still compensated.
I guess you could say you are cutting hay for the family horse. But who buys a tractor; sickle mower; hay baler; ect for just one horse.
Sounds more like a lie to get around DOT rules than the truth.

Hauling a tractor and using the going to a show line..... The tractor better look like it belongs in a show. Hauling a tractor for several states could also be seen as hauling for profit or delivering a sold tractor.

I know it's crazy thinking. But look at all the guys feeding a line just to get around rules. I would be willing to bet some of the people on this site advertising for tractor hauling are not legal. The good pay for the bad.

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welding man

03-16-2012 21:40:03
76.9.225.108



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to John in La, 03-16-2012 19:09:50  
John, I disagree. The Feds do not classify prize money,trophys or ribbons as compensation. Read the intreprentation section of the regs.They state And I Quote;Guidence:The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation provided(1)the underlying activities are not undertaken for profit ie (a)prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes (b)The cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes and where revelant(2)corporate sponsorship is not involved. I carry a copy of this in my truck at all times and if I need it I will use it. If they don't like it, we will have our day in court.Since when is it against the law to have a hobby.Pulling a load of horses, a boat or a camper is a hobby. My tractors are a hobby and I enjoy them.

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John in La

03-17-2012 05:48:53
66.157.27.101



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to welding man, 03-16-2012 21:40:03  
I agree welding man. It is right there in black and white but some of these young gung hoe cops could care less. I have seen some really off the wall tickets over the years and your day in court 3 states from your house usually does not matter. Most will just pay the ticket and be done with it and the cops know that.

Carry a copy of the regs in your truck. Hope your tractor looks like it belongs in a show.

The thing I can not understand is..........
Pulling a tractor behind a pickup could look like a bussiness even if you are a personal hobby.
BUT........
Pulling a race car with sponsors names plastered all over it behind a RV seems to be OK.

I am really into the safety side of the rules. I think the feds need to enforce the safety rules to the letter. Maybe even re-write some of the laws to devide the safety rules more so the exemptions are clearer.
But trying to add personal use into all our paper work would be just crazy.

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730d se

03-17-2012 07:15:58
68.189.186.87



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to John in La, 03-17-2012 05:48:53  
John,

You hit the nails on the heads in my view. The rules are set up to protect all of us. As typical with politics, it turns in to a money machine and safety is not at the top, no matter what they try to say otherwise.
It is dangerous for a guy who seldom drives the rig, not used to the weight, stopping distances, etc., to go rolling off somewhere to "pick up a tractor". Safety has nothing to do with whether it is his play toy, if he makes money on it, or if he is actually a famrer.
If he runs through a traffic signal, runs over the vehicle in front of him, blows a tire and runs across lanes, the ugly result is the same.
I say we either set the rules for all, or drop them completely and everyone take their chances on the road.
We all have that thought that it "will not happen to us." Many people with that thought have been proven wrong, some of them are not alive to argue the point.

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rustyfarmall

03-17-2012 08:45:35
216.248.71.224



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to 730d se, 03-17-2012 07:15:58  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I agree 100%. Lets apply that same kind of thinking to the RVers also.



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d beatty

03-15-2012 10:00:38
24.12.128.253



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 Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVING IN THE USA in reply to S2710, 03-15-2012 08:34:49  
I don't know of a site that will give all the states in detail . I go to search and type in - Who needs (the state)CDL. Then then go down untilI find the DMV site that covers that.



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