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Discussion Forum

Looking for clarification!

Author  [Modern View]
Shetland Sheepdog

12-31-2011 10:49:00
72.71.209.231



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Is it legal to operate a truck and trailer without a CDL when the trailer has a GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs, but the GCWR of truck and trailer is less than 26,000 lbs? No commercial use,or for hire use, just personal use.




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DollarBill

01-05-2012 03:42:51
74.178.58.230



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

For legal compliance check with your state drivers license office but as it is for personal use only, I would say a CDL is not required.



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kyhayman

01-04-2012 21:27:16
99.196.32.59



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Kentucky, CDL no, DOT medical card yes provided in state.



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davediehl@hotmail.com

01-04-2012 20:21:45
184.18.118.107



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Plain and simple for what you describe, no. Its not needed.



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400Dtractorman

01-04-2012 17:44:48
24.112.136.165



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
In Maryland we have two Class A license. One is a CDL and the other is a plan A. I have a CDL and my son has a plane A. I drive a tractor trailer and he just drives my 1 ton and trailer which is 33,000 GCWR. I think a lot of you miss the commerical part. If your not using the vehicle for money then its personnal and you don't need a CDL. For example my F350 and trailer is tagged for 33000 combination. I have no fuel sticker and no DOT. I can only haul my stuff ie. antique tractor etc. Don't get caught taking hay to an aution because then your making money. I am supposed to stop at scales for weight. Also the way I understand it is as long as your on the federal highway you go on the federal rules, its when you get off is when you go on the state rules, if they are different. But if I was going to travel I would check with states that your traveling thru. This is what was told to me from a PA and MD DOT officer.

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Shetland Sheepdog

01-01-2012 18:29:14
72.71.209.231



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to oros35, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
From the NH CDL License requirements:

"A CDL is required if you operate a vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs."

Well there you have it! (For NH) Truck GVWR = 9900 lbs. Trailer GVWR = 14,000 lbs. GCWR = 23,900 lbs, CDL not needed!

HTH, Dave



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Shetland Sheepdog

01-01-2012 17:46:21
72.71.209.231



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to JMOR, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Wisconsin rules, page 5, line 15, covers the application that I started this topic for. Now, to find out if the same applies in NH!



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S2710

01-01-2012 14:20:08
98.143.227.89



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
On page 5 is the rules in the wisconsin book



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John in La

01-01-2012 08:58:02
66.157.47.161



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Here is the chart I was looking for. It is a page from a model guide the federal government put out to help states write their CDL manuals.

I may be wrong but in my mind this just backs up what I said in my last post.



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John in La

12-31-2011 19:49:41
68.222.28.190



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
You can not get a straight answer for that question. Heck even the DOT officers do not know the answer. I use to have a chart that outlined who needs a CDL but lost it in a hard drive crash.

Read the federal rules and make up your own mind.

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

To me this reads states have to follow the federal law and can not change them in any way.

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

To me this says GCWR must be over 26,001 lbs AND the trailer GVWR must be over 10,000 lbs.

In other words a 25,000 lb truck with a 5000 lb trailer would not need a CDL because the trailer is not over 10,000 lbs. ALSO
A 14,000 lb truck with a 11,000 lb trailer would not need a CDL because the GCWR is not 26,001.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

To me this was says the truck must have a GVWR of 26,001 or more.

Class C deals with haz mat and passengers so it is N/A for this question

Someone else brought up air brakes so lets answer that also.

There is no such thing as a Air Brake Endorsement. If you do not take the air brake test or fail the skill test you will be given a Air Brake Restriction. This restriction has no effect on what size truck you drive. It just can not have air brakes. I have seen many trucks (say a 2 ton) that can easily pull a trailer over 10,000 lbs and would have a GCWR over 26,001 lbs that did not have air brakes. Most have vacuum over hydraulic brakes on the truck and electric brakes on the trailer. This combo would require a Class A but could have the air brake restriction.

If a driver either fails the air brake component of the general knowledge test or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the driver is issued an air brake restriction, restricting the driver from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.

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d beatty

01-01-2012 17:20:59
98.215.123.133



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to John in La, 12-31-2011 19:49:41  
I retired a year ago after 38 years of driving semi for a commerical freight line. We hauled haz mat my CDL license was a class A with H ( haz mat)endorsement You don't need the class C for haz mat.



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scotc

01-01-2012 09:57:50
75.221.6.92



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to John in La, 12-31-2011 19:49:41  
Class C deals with Hazmat and passengers? Class C is your basic passenger-car, light-truck license. Hazmat isn't it's own class of license, it's an endorsement. Class C is any vehicle/combination up to 26,000 pounds towing less than 10,000, or bus/van that carries less than 15 passengers.



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John in La

01-01-2012 12:28:27
66.157.50.133



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to scotc, 01-01-2012 09:57:50  
The CDL laws have a class C license. If you haul haz mat or have more than 15 passengers (16 people with the driver) you need a Commercial Driver's Licenses (CDL).
If your truck is not big enough to need a class A or B license but you want to do any of the above you need a class C CDL. You would also need to add the correct endorsements to the license.
Some states use the class C as a regular drivers license. But these states also have a regular class C and a commercial class C.
My state used class D and E for non CDL licenses.

QUOTE..........
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

If you think I am still wrong than prove me wrong with a link.

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scotc

01-02-2012 01:11:50
72.101.203.162



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to John in La, 01-01-2012 12:28:27  
Maybe your state has a standard C and a commercial C, but the commercial C is still only good for the light vehicle. And with a Hazmat endorsement is only needed and good for the light vehicle carrying a reportable quantity. You made it sound as though a class C is for hazmat in any vehicle weight class, which it isn't.



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John in La

01-02-2012 21:26:18
68.222.52.65



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to scotc, 01-02-2012 01:11:50  
I think it was just a misunderstanding of the words I or you used.

I stated Class C does not apply to this discussion because it deals with haz mat and passengers.

Let me put it this way......
You would only need a class C if you hauled haz mat or passengers. Class C is not the only license that allows you to haul haz mat or passengers but if you have a class C you do one of the above.
A class C does not allow you to drive trucks over 26,001 lbs. If you did you would need a Class A or B.
If you drive a truck smaller than 26,001 lbs you do not need a CDL unless you haul haz mat or passengers. This is where the commercial class C comes in.

So like I said before a class C is N/A to this discussion on trailer size. If you do not haul haz mat or passengers you have no need to get a commercial class C license.

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scotc

01-03-2012 18:34:46
75.221.80.221



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to John in La, 01-02-2012 21:26:18  
I think you mean to say that if you want to haul hazmat or less than 15 passengers in a car/pickup/van, you need to get a commercial C in your state.

You need to get a hazmat endoresement on a commercial license to haul it, but the endorsement can be had on any commercial license.



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S2710

12-31-2011 19:15:29
98.143.227.89



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
according to this no.

Bob



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VicS

01-01-2012 15:32:56
166.250.96.31



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to S2710, 12-31-2011 19:15:29  
Thanks for the link and the answer. I had. Always thought if my truck was under 10000 lb. And my trailer, was under 16000 lb I didn't need a CDL. Vic



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jim plunkett

12-31-2011 14:41:30
216.175.10.241



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
As soon as you hook a 10k plus trailer on you need a cdl to be legal



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snoopnc

01-01-2012 07:17:05
66.44.248.185



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to jim plunkett, 12-31-2011 14:41:30  
....add to this...CLASS A...

When you are sitting on the scales and your TRAILER is 10K (or more)...you need Class A. This is true even if your gross weight (again...while sitting on the scales) is less than 26K. The "kicker" in this scenario is the TRAILER weight while sitting on the scales.

That's how it was "simply" explained to me years ago here in NC while I was sitting on the DOT scales.

Rick

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dansuper27

12-31-2011 15:12:51
128.138.179.55



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to jim plunkett, 12-31-2011 14:41:30  
The 10,000lb limit is confusing. If you hook a 10,000lb or higher rated trailer to a class B CMV then you need a class A CDL to pull it. If the combined weight rating of the entire vehicle is less than the 26,000lb then in most states you don't need the CDL or have to pull into the port. That isn't true in every state....UTAH is a prime example as well as Nebraska...pickup with trailer is required to pull in no matter the weight.

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scotc

01-01-2012 09:45:11
75.221.6.92



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to dansuper27, 12-31-2011 15:12:51  
But the scales are in the interstate, they only pull you off if you are close or over.



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MSD

12-31-2011 12:59:09
71.32.37.229



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
Good luck getting "clarification" on that topic on this site.



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mightymolinekid

12-31-2011 11:11:25
68.114.230.150



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to Shetland Sheepdog, 12-31-2011 10:49:00  
You don't need a CDL as long as the GCVWR is less than 26,001 lbs. After that you need a Class A, same as a semi driver does. You wouldn't need the air brake endorsement, though.



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d beatty

12-31-2011 13:00:46
98.215.123.133



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 Re: Looking for clarification! in reply to mightymolinekid, 12-31-2011 11:11:25  
Class A includes the air brakes endorsement. I have driven tractor trailer for over 38 years and never seen a semi without air brakes.



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