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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck

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plow handd

05-28-2011 06:52:32
67.6.80.9



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I have a heavy duty 1/2 ton Ford truck, trailering package etc. Do you think it would be safe enough to haul a Farm tractor weighing about 8000 lbs.with a good bumper hook trailer?...thanks in advance.




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charles todd

08-15-2011 10:05:27
144.191.148.3



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to John Moore, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
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Yes I am. But I'm also from the reliable camp. GM's have been reliable to me, thus I drive them. When they quit being reliable, I will go FORD, never DODGE.

CT



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mkirsch

06-06-2011 06:52:30
64.80.110.75



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
Look at the ratings on your truck's receiver hitch as well.

Typical 1/2 ton factory receiver ratings are:

1. 500lbs hitch & 5000lbs trailer without a weight distributing hitch.

2. 1000lbs hitch and 10,000lbs trailer WITH a weight distributing (WD) hitch.

Right off the bat, your tractor BY ITSELF exceeds the 5000lbs trailer rating, so you will definitely need a WD hitch to avoid damage to your truck.

Next, if your trailer is much over 2000lbs empty, you're going to exceed the ratings on the receiver even with a WD hitch. A trailer large enough to carry a WD-9 will run 2500-3000lbs empty.

Even if you decide that extra 500-1000lbs is nothing to worry about, please use a WD hitch or upgrade the receiver on your truck to a heavier version.

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charles todd

06-03-2011 19:54:34
205.242.95.133



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I agree. When I pull my 1989 30' bumper pull camper, I use a weight distributing hitch and an anti-sway bar with a friction clutch. The camper throws my truck around a lot worse than the 8,000 lb tractor and 4,500 lb goose neck trailer does and it weighs half or more less. The factors of it having high sides (cross wind resistance) and being +4' behind the axle (trailer leverage) are against me. The only thing I worry about with a heavy goose neck load is running out of power up a long, steep hill (rare). I can stop fine and the 10 ply tires on truck and trailer handle the loads.

When towing off the bumper, its like mkirsch said, the trailer has leverage on the truck. Whether it be a 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton dually, the leverage from the bumper can be a disadvantage over a goose neck or fifth wheel hitch. This is compounded when the roads are wet, snowy, or icy. I would rather have 10,000 lb on a 1/2 ton and goose neck than to have 10,000 lb on a 1 ton dually off the bumper any day. I'm an engineer and Physics taught me Newton's Laws. One of them being a fulcrum (cheater pipe). Bumper pulls are not my favorite setup, but many use them.

Good luck and happy trailering.

CT

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mkirsch

06-03-2011 06:18:24
64.80.110.75



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
The key to towing like that with a 1/2 ton is the GOOSENECK trailer.

Goosenecks are much more inherently stable because the attachment point is directly over the rear axle. The trailer has NO leverage to push the rear end of the truck around.

With a bumper pull, the attachment point is 4' behind the axle. You know what happens when you put a cheater pipe on a wrench, right? This is like giving the trailer a huge cheater pipe on your truck. Throw in the mushy P-rated tires 1/2 ton trucks come with and the soft car-like suspension, and you've got a tail-wagging-dog situation.

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scotc

06-03-2011 19:20:37
75.221.148.13



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to mkirsch, 06-03-2011 06:18:24  
He would need a weight-distributing hitch with the bumper pull.



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charles todd

06-02-2011 20:55:45
205.242.95.133



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I agree on the underpowered at times. There was one hill that must have been 5-6 miles long that I pulled the last mile or two at about 50 mph on I-20. I had semi's passing me on the left side. I don't mind though, I only tow like this about once a season (4x year).
I have been in a 1984 Chevrolet 6.2L 1/2 ton towing some bulls from central Texas to Louisiana in a 16' bumper pull stock trailer. It would get +25 mpg empty (no trailer), but a dog in hills with a load. It has very high gearing for a diesel, for passenger use. It now does better since we had the pump turned up after a rebuild at about 120,000 miles. But +200,000 miles later my Grandmother still drives it to church on Sundays occasionally. Its a good truck for what it is and would not mind ending up with it.

I know I was not legal, hence my Saturday trip when the Chicken Coops were closed and Mr. DOT was probably barbecuing at home. My trailer plates (farm) had the weight rating, but the truck has 6,000 lb privates, ouch! I have thought of bumping them to 18k, but I don't know if they will plate the truck over its data plate rating, or if that is even legal. 18k farm tags would be nice.

Truck handles it well. Twin caliper disc brakes on all 4 corners and new brakes on all 4 trailer hubs. It will stop good when asked to. Getting rolling can be a challenge if it's uphill from a red light.

I have some mods to the power train too. K&N cold air along with modified exhaust running out through a 3"x18" glass pack. When towing, the 5.3L BARKS like a mad pit bull, almost too loud (is that possible?). I have thought about camming it and getting the ECM flashed with a more aggressive program.

Thanks!

CT

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FC Andy

06-02-2011 18:09:59
74.126.84.52



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
Well, I'll throw in my $.02.

I just Hauled a 450 Diesel Farmall through Tennesse, Kentucky, Ohio, in to southern MI where I live. '97 K2500 Chevy with 6.5 diesel. I estimate tractor weighed 7,000 lbs anyway, on a bumper pull equipment trailer. Truck handeled it just fine (I'm pretty sure I was actually legal), Ran out of power on I-75 in the mountians. I know, you don't have an antique underpowered diesel, I'm just saying. By the way, once I fixed the vacuum setup for my turbo at an exit, it pulled better. Still low on power in a few spots, though. If anybody was behind me at 35 mph on I-75, sorry!

I will say this... Here In Michigan, I've heard that the D.O.T. will now pull over private guys and weigh axles like the big trucks. You'll difinetly not be legal with that big tractor. Can your truck handle it? It may very well. If some pain in the butt Weighmaster pulls you over? You'll have a big ticket to ride home with. (without your tractor in tow, at best)

Take care, Andy

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charles todd

06-02-2011 12:18:59
155.130.107.42



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
As far as engines the newer engines are superior in power, economy, and longevity. The 350 gets <8 towing, 11 empty. The 5.3L (325 cid) gets 10-11 towing, 15 empty. Smaller engine, more power, better mileage towing, same tire size and gear set... Both trucks have the same final drive ratios. If the ratios are apples to apples, how can the RPM of power band be an issue if the 5.3L can out tow a 350? At 65 mph 3rd gear (both trucks) they tach at 3000 RPM, 2500 at about 55 mph. That is where the TQ band is. The HP band is much higher on the 5.3L, but the TORQUE is what tows!
Granted, below 2000 RPM the 5.3L is out of its power band, then it hits 2nd gear and winds up to about 4000 RPM and powers through. I climbed one hill on I-20 for about 3 miles in 2nd gear at about 55 mph. Did not hurt a thing, the modern engines are full roller motors with a 6000 RPM redline..

CT

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charles todd

06-02-2011 10:17:28
155.130.107.20



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I can compare the different era of trucks personally. My 1979 C20 "heavy" 3/4 ton flexes as chevytaHOE5674 describes. My 2001 K1500 does not. It is documented (Google will find the answers) that frames are 40-70% stiffer today compared to 20-30 years ago. The only way the C20 is heavier is the 9 leaf spring packs and the massive 14 bolt, 10 1/2" ring pumpkin. Heck, my Fathers 1998 8600 GVW 3/4 ton flexes more than my K1500. There was improvements made between just those 3 years.
I also can compare the old 165 hp 350, Quadrajet 4bbl to the modern 5.3L 285 hp in my K1500. True the power is made at higher RPM. Both of these trucks have 265/75R16 tires, 3.73 gears, and automatic transmissions. The 350 is a DOG compared to the 5.3L. Both truck tow at the same RPM, this is apples and apples (I do not tow in OD).
I was going to re-power the 1979 with a 383 stroker 454, but have decided to drop a full computer 5.3L instead. I may or may not keep the TH400. I feel that is all the engine I need with 3.73 gears towing up to 12-15K lbs.

This is not a "lot special" 1/2 ton. It was bought to tow a large camper originally and was wet up to do so. I just don't camp much anymore, I like tractors! 8)
2001 K1500, CAT scale ticket said 17,760 total gross



1979 C20 My old faithfull - THE BEAST, Retired



The black one wins the towing competitions.

CT

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S2710

06-02-2011 09:18:08
98.143.227.89



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I have a F150 with the towing package and I haul a Farmall M on a 10,000 lbs. trailer in the hills of west central Wi. and I have no trouble stopping or pulling the hills. I think I can haul more but I would not be comfortable doing it with my set up. Your truck and trailer my be set up different then mine so if you are comfortable hauling it I would say Go For It.
Bob



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mkirsch

05-31-2011 06:22:26
64.80.110.75



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
You're one of those types who is going to do it no matter what anyone says, so why bother asking?



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plow handd

06-01-2011 17:24:41
67.6.93.131



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to mkirsch, 05-31-2011 06:22:26  
Hey dipstick! I posted a need hauled ad...



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charles todd

05-31-2011 04:51:34
205.242.95.133



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to Kip-Utah, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
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Completely opposite is true. Modern 1/2 ton trucks are as heavy if not heavier than a 3/4 ton from 30 years ago. At least frame wise. My 2001 Chevy 1/2 ton is rated for 6400 or 6800 gvw. My 1979 C20, 7200 gvw, and it is a heavy "Camper Special". The only thing heavier is the springs and 14 bolt rear.

CT



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rustyfarmall

06-02-2011 06:33:01
216.248.71.224



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to charles todd, 05-31-2011 04:51:34  
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Charles, that is only partially true. A 1/2 ton truck can be either extremely light duty, or it can be equipped to be a real work truck. It all depends on which options were ordered and how it is spec'ed out. A 3/4 ton is the same way. In fact, it is possible to spec out a 1/2 ton that will have higher hauling and towing capabilities than what a comparable 3/4 ton MIGHT have.

The sad part of the whole thing is that finding a heavy duty equipped 1/2 ton on a dealers lot is next to impossible. I would guess that nearly all 1/2 tons on the lot will be the very light duty, glorified passenger car, type of vehicle, and will never be asked to haul anything heavier than 1 or 2 sheets of 1/2" plywood or maybe a couple of beer coolers.

For all practical purposes, a 1/2 ton truck should NOT be considered a work truck anymore.

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gtx1967jewison

08-14-2011 04:33:36
174.253.147.201



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-02-2011 06:33:01  
Your obviously from the chevy camp.



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chevytaHOE5674

06-02-2011 07:19:12
74.221.55.11



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-02-2011 06:33:01  
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Why not?

Most manufactures are now using either completely boxed or partially boxed frames. Compared to the rubber like C-channel frames of yesteryear.
Brakes are much larger now with most trucks requiring 17"+ wheels to clear their larger brakes. No more tiny single piston calipers shoved inside 15" wheels with room to spare.

Power is way up from what it was years ago. An early 80's chevy K10 with a 5.7L had 175hp and 275tq IIRC. A 2011 K1500 with a smaller 4.8L makes 302hp and 305tq; and the 5.3L makes 315hp and 338tq.

What makes old 1/2 tons sooooo much greater??? hahaha

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rustyfarmall

06-02-2011 07:57:05
216.248.71.224



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to chevytaHOE5674, 06-02-2011 07:19:12  
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Crawl under a truck that was built in the '50s or '60s and take a good look at the CHANNEL IRON frame under those trucks and you quickly understand why the manufacturers of todays trucks need to box in those flimsy, stamped steel frames.

If you are going to compare todays engines to those of yesteryear, compare apples to apples and find out just how fast that 4.8 has to be spinning when it makes that kind of horsepower. I think you will find out that the RPMs required are significanly higher than anything you will ever see during normal highway driving.

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chevytaHOE5674

06-02-2011 09:43:05
74.221.55.11



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-02-2011 07:57:05  
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I have a truck from the 60's with a CHANNEL IRON frame. When you load the bed with stuff and flex the truck (driving across a small ditch in a pasture) at all the bed and cab move 6" apart on one side and touch on the other. This is common knowledge and many people who use those old trucks off-road box the frames, or build new frames.
On the other hand my neighbors new chevy truck with a boxed frame and the frame is rock solid no matter what he is doing with it.
Sure the newer motors make power at higher RPM's but with the 5 and 6 speed transmissions and different axle gears they are able to use that power.

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rustyfarmall

06-02-2011 10:17:54
216.248.71.224



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to chevytaHOE5674, 06-02-2011 09:43:05  
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You missed the point entirely. Go back and read my statement again.



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chevytaHOE5674

06-02-2011 10:37:44
74.221.55.11



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-02-2011 10:17:54  
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What was your point then?
That they need the boxed frame to make up for the lack of CHANNEL IRON frame?
Maybe they have found out through years of research and development that the best answer isn't through some heavy channel iron under it; instead engineer a frame that is rigid and stronger than previous models while being light weight and has built in crash protection.
Or was your point about the old motors and how they get 11mpg rolling down hill or how they are harder to start when cold, or not as reliable.
Your "old 1/2" was lucky to make it to 100k before rusting out and falling apart. Now it is not uncommon for "new" trucks to have 100k mile in a few years and then continue on for a few 100k miles more.

So again what was your point? ha

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charles todd

05-30-2011 21:01:15
205.242.95.133



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I do it all the time, but on a gooseneck and 1/2 ton. Last tractor I bought was an Allis Chalmers 180, about 8,000 lbs. Trailer weighs about 4500. I trailered it 360 miles, two states, and hills. My gross weight was right at 18,000.

Good luck,

CT
This post was edited by charles todd at 21:02:09 05/30/11.



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Brian Jasper co. Ia

05-29-2011 21:55:18
67.142.130.43



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
The Nebraska test shows the W9 having a bare weight of 6350lbs. Hard to say what one weighs fully loaded. I'd guess 8000lbs easy. You're pushing the limits with a 1/2 ton and 8K trailer. You might get away with it on level ground. Going through the mountains? No way!



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Rick(MN)

05-29-2011 17:06:47
67.4.135.151



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
Can it be done? Yes...Is it a good idea? Maybe, maybe not. Knowing where you are hauling from and to...I would say go for it. Just be careful not to get too much or too little weight on the tounge and pick your time and stay away from busy times in order to lessen the chance of needing to stop quickly.



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BobbyB

05-29-2011 08:12:07
75.105.99.15



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
When I was younger, I'd do it in a minute. Ive pulled some loads that thinking back on were insane and with no trailer brakes.

But I dont think there is much question that trucks 35 years ago were a little heavier than they are now. I routinely hauled 2500 lbs from the feed mill in my 1/2 t Chevy Scottsdale.

But these days, with laws and lawyers like they are, new trucks being what they are, people pretending they know how to drive when they have no business on the road at all, I just dont think Id try it 85 miles.

15 or 20 miles, me, yeah, Id tie on and get with it as long as it wasnt a major highway. But not the trip you describe

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chevytaHOE5674

05-29-2011 07:30:23
74.221.55.11



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I have a 1/2 ton tahoe that I custom built a 1 ton rear axle for. Upgraded disk brakes on all 4 corners. I have a bumper pull trailer with two 6k lbs axles; brakes on both axles. Trailer weighs 1800 lbs so I am allowed 10,200 of cargo. I also have an equalizer hitch.

Now having all that I have towed over 10k on the trailer many times without any issue. I can stop that trailer loaded safely as good as any 1ton truck.
Technically I am over my max GVW, but nobody has every stopped to check me out. So moral of the story is if you have the proper equipment and setup towing with a 1/2 ton can be done safely.

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BarryfromIA

05-29-2011 03:22:57
67.55.176.9



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
Look at it like you are a lawyer. Find your tow rating for truck and trailer and if you need an equalizer hitch. Then you will need to find another way get your thrills, if you do it right.



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plow handd

05-29-2011 03:31:45
67.6.80.9



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to BarryfromIA, 05-29-2011 03:22:57  
another smart as s with to much time on his hands listen to your mother- nothing good to say-keep your pie hole shut!



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Scotty HOMEy

05-28-2011 18:29:02
71.241.218.164



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I wouldn't recommend chancing it unless the trailer is rated for 10k or more. Two issues come to mind.

If the tagalong trailer is of a typical car-hauler/landscaper type that handles the Bobcat just fine, it will be difficult to balance the trailer to get your tongue weight anywhere near right to pull it safely. Nose heavy will strain your rear and lift your steer axle. Tail heavy will fishtail. And that's the case whether you're talking 1/2, 3/4 or 1-ton.

Which gets to the other thought. A beefed-up half-ton will pull it but won't necessarily have what you'd expect to stop it. Especially so if it is a car-hauler. Brakes for pickups and for trailer axles are built for their ratings.

Whenever these questions come up the latter is always the bigger question for me. Yeah, you can "haul" it, but can you stop it? With a trailer rated for 10k or better and the brakes that come with it (operating properly) you could do it with VERY cautious driving on relatively flat ground over the distance you'r thinking of.

This ain't a Cub Cadet you're talking about. The W-9 is a HEAVY tractor.

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J88puller

05-28-2011 15:36:08
98.31.57.80



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
There is a lot of factors to take into consideration. How far are you going to be pulling it and is the roads flat or hilly and how old is your truck. If you have a newer truck there are built better than the old ones were they have tranny coolers, more power and most of the half tons upgraded from 5 lug to six lug rims and have larger brakes. If its a short distance and flat land I would pull as long as your trailer is rated to carry that much weight and the brakes work good on it. Sure a 3/4 ton or a one ton would be the way to go but if your going to use it 5 or 6 times a year, I'm not paying 30,000-40,000 for a new 3/4 - 1 ton

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plow handd

05-28-2011 15:41:04
67.6.80.9



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to J88puller, 05-28-2011 15:36:08  
It is a 2006 6 hole wheels trailering package every option going about 85 miles.It easily pulls a large skid steer s-220 Bobcat..thanks



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scotc

05-29-2011 09:23:41
72.101.29.136



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 15:41:04  
What does a WD9 weigh, exactly? An S220 Bobcat comes in just under 7500 pounds operating weight.



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CLTX

05-28-2011 10:11:23
70.140.69.93



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
I wouldn't recommend it. You could do it, but not safely. Even a gooseneck with brakes on a half ton is risky. When I was young and stupid(ier), I hauled a JD "R" (about the same weight as the WD-9) several time behind a ford half-ton p/u with a heavy duty bumper hitch trailer and got by with it, but I shudder to think what could have gone wrong. Today, I would not pull that much of a load with a bumper hitch on anything less than a one-ton truck. Just my two cents.
C. L.

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rustyfarmall

05-28-2011 14:54:50
216.248.71.224



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 09:52:43  
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The answers you received are very good. That W9 is a very HEAVY tractor. Nothing less than a 3/4 ton truck and a 14,000# rated trailer. We really do not care if you want to tear up your truck and at the same time destroy a W9, but it just might be one of MY friends or family members that gets killed in the crash that you caused, so please pay attention to the advice being given and be safe.

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F-350

06-02-2011 17:41:57
67.142.179.24



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to rustyfarmall, 05-28-2011 14:54:50  
Where are all these accidents at that are caused by people pulling trailers with pickups...I've sure never seen any in my area..Are you one of these guys that thinks everyone needs a semi to haul an 8N Ford...



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ericlb

05-28-2011 07:50:08
70.41.96.39



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 Re: WD-9 and 1/2 ton truck in reply to plow handd, 05-28-2011 06:52:32  
no, you might do it for a short way with a gooseneck trailer but, 8000lbs of tractor, figure another 1500 to 2000 for the trailer its riding on,placed on the rear of a half ton pickup and its going to wreck you, far too much weight, and far too back on the truck, steering will be interesting to say the least, and you may well damage your truck frame loaded like that, better to borrow a friends at least 3/4 ton, 1 ton would be better yet

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