Why not just GET one?????

All the posts about how much can I haul without CDL make me wonder wht people just don't go get one. Back in 2000 I did just that. On my own , didn't work for trucking co. either. Got all the study info books from state (MI) studied for a week or two (few oz,s. of common sense helps too) set up the road test at State Complex. This was for a semi (tractor trailer/air brakes tank truck and hazmat)CDL-A with endorsements. Rented a tractor / trailer from Ryder 1/2 mile from test site , drove to site and took drive test at site then out on the freeway and then right downtown Lansing MI and back to test site. Rental cost me $100. Passed testing. Went to home town Sec State and did written test and passed. Total cost less than $200. Have re-newed it twice since then ($75). Forst time had to take new written hazmat test and failed so just let them drop that endorsment. Re-newed last week and never had to take ANY kind of written test for anything! Just did eye test , questionair about having DOT card or not and photo and on my way. The topper to the story is that I have NEVER in my life drove a tractor trailer rig!! Secret is to read what answers THEY want and understand the "WHY" to everything on the truck and the "WHY" to everything you do and don't do with the truck. You can't pass this written test by just "memorizing" answers. You have to learn it! Was I sweating that drive test?? He11 yes! I wore a "Roadway" hat to kind of put the instructor at ease a little too. That CDL will come in handy more time in your life than you think. Just get one. You will learn a lot and not regret it.Randy.

I don't believe that very many folks have had an issue with just getting a CDL. I mean look how many semis are on the road today, everyone of them must have one.
The issues come in with insurance cost, added taxes, tags, filing quarterly taxes instead on once a year, etc.
For just using it for tractor shows and occasionaly, it is just not worth all of the added cost and liabilty.

Yep, having the CDL opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. It only makes sense if you're driving to make money. Otherwise you may as well own a boat.

ive always wondered the same thing, just get one then your leagle the only thing with the cdl inthe first place is mainly to make sure the guy behind the wheel pulling a load has the driving skill and know how to handel the rig he's driving, with todays hi hp diesel pickups and anybody with money can buy one, that doesnt mean mr. insurance salesman, who usualy drives a 2dr hybred to work needs to go hook to a 30 foot gooseneck full of hay with his shiny new pickup, without being trained to handle weight in motion

No Thank You.I used to have a CDL years ago when I drove for a grain elevator but let it go.I dont want to take a day off from work,drive 75 miles to take a test,and spend a bunch of money for something that I no longer need.I"ve driven for 42 years without a single accident while hauling stuff.

Theres just way-way too many headaches to be liscensed for over 26,000 lbs these days.Thanks DOT!!! Most of the time I"m going down the road weighing a total of 20,000 lbs or less and I know my limits.

What I don't understand is why your laws are structured in such a way that a CDL is required over a certain weight. The way it's done here... you are required to upgrade your drivers licence when you intend to operate a vehicle over 14000 KG (~30,000#) or if you're driving taxi. With heavy trucks it does not matter wether or not your are hauling commercially or not. It's about the driver's ability to handle a vehicle in that weight class without exceptions. Medical included. The licence is not a big deal.
The commercial aspect and all of the fuel permits come into play when the ~vehicle~ is registered to haul commercially. A heavy farm truck, even a semi can be registered here with farm plates and conduct any aspect of farm business with those plates, within the province... at reduced licence cost, no IFTA sticker, no logs and generally very little hassle PROVIDED you make an attempt to abide by the rules that everyone else follows. We're also required to have MVI's done annually and that does cost about 100 bucks... but it's really only covering what the DOT will check if you get hauled over and you have to keep a vehicle in working order anyhow... so I don't find it that onerous.
What puzzles me is that in the US, or at least some states... the CDL thing seems to be tied to the driver and not the vehicle. Everyone here with a licence over class 4 (taxi) is considered to have a CDL... and the lower the number, the higher the licence class... with Class 1 (semi) being the highest and allowing the operation of anything but a bike or school bus.

Rod

Randy,

IN North Carolina if you drove to the test site in a CDL required vehicle without having a CDL, you would IMMEDIATELY fail. You would not even get to take the road test. It is the same as driving without a license. You have to get a driver with a CDL to drive the vehicle to the test site.

The CDL isn't really the issue at the scale of operation that usually comes up here.

It's the matter of having the DOT registration and the costs that go with it.

I could go get a Class A CDL as you suggest, even tough nothing about the heavies combination I could put together with what I have would not require it. But if Ossifer Friendly on the side of the road, should decide I was commercial (or if I was indeed openly operating commercially) I also have to have a DOT registration, name and number properly displayed, evidence of much higher (and costly) insurance, a medical card, maintain records of any operation (logbook and more), and comply with all the minutiae of the safety regs, which would include paying for a company to cover the requirements that I periodically pee in a cup (It's required, they know it, and they charge disproportionately to any cost and reasonable profit involved).

My own combined GVWR is under 26K, my loads are within the ratings for my combination, within the GCWR of my pickup, and I don't run commercially. I run legal. I should not have to endure any closer inspection than a stop to check my combined weight rating and actual weight. I wldn't object to a pro's eye on the security of my load but, as I posted below, even that can get more than cumbersome.

As amtter of principle, I maintain a safe vehicle and operate it in a safe manner. Why would I even think of bearing the cost and burden of complying with rules that don't apply to me?

Because there are enforcement agencies out of control? Not sufficient reason in my book.

Or, you have to have a driver with a valid CDL accompany you. It works like a class C permit, you can drive the truck, you just can't drive it alone.

It's tied to how heavy a vehicle you will be driving, and it's in all states, it's a federal regulation. Class C is any vehicle or combination under 26,000 GVWR. Class B is any vehicle over 26,000, and any combination over 26,000, as long as the trailer GVWR is under 10,000. Class A is a class B that allows the trailer GVWR to be over 10,000. Then you add school bus or motorcycle endorsements to the class license you have. And to drive a school bus, you have to have a class B and HAZMAT. Of course, a class B covers a class C, and class A covers B and C.

Hauling commercially or privately, only matters on the vehicle registration, not on your drivers license.

I do not really think a CDL is what most people complain about; but yes some do.
They call it a commercial driver’s license. The association of the word commercial and some people just does not set well because they do not feel they are commercial so they should not need one.
Yes §390.3(f)(3) gives a exemption to occasional transportation of personal property.
But read on .... §383.3(b) says the exceptions contained in §390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part.
This means everyone; commercial or not as we use the terms here needs a CDL if your GCWR/GVWR is over 26,000 lbs.
I find CDL laws to be good. The CDL was created to prevent drivers from getting multiple driver licenses in different states so your driving record is forced to be on one file. This in turn takes bad drivers off the road or at least prevents them from driving larger trucks.

What most complain about (and rightfully so) is getting a DOT# and the extra insurance; record keeping that goes along with it. The fact that you have drivers hauling tractors for hire and trying to fly under the radar to reduce cost and increase income makes it bad for everyone. Then you have some poor souls getting harassed by the DOT on his way to a tractor show or some other hobby event for a DOT#. Momma always said the good apples have to pay for the bad so blame the other drivers not the DOT.

Then you will have those that try to lump all laws under the DOT umbrella to avoid safety issues. They will say I am not commercial so why should I have to follow tie down; lights; or other safety rules outlined in the FMC safety rules.
They fail to realize that these same rules apply to everyone. Heck if I have a burned out tail light; or a piece of plywood not tied down in the back of my Toyota pickup I can be given a ticket by the local cop.
The fact that it was a DOT officer that deals mostly with large trucks gave them a safety violation ticket and or inspection just rubs some people the wrong way. Heck I am not commercial why is he stopping and picking on me.
When in fact if they think about it they would realize that the reason a DOT officer gave them this ticket is he is more familiar with truck rules; he has more time to deal with these issues because he is not on domestic dispute calls and so on.

I will agree that the DOT laws are complicated and we have a lot of new officers on the road that do not know their brain from a hole in the ground since the beefed up enforcement went into effect last year. They are young; new on the job; and/or want to show off their power that comes with the badge.
But on the other hand no one is perfect. I have shown DOT officers and even our safety man at work where they have been wrong. I have even been shown where I have been wrong in my reading of the rules. It is life get over it.

When it comes to larger trucks and safety there is only two ways to choose. Stay on the porch with the girls or get out here and play with the big boys. No middle ground OR there should not be because your 30,000 lb RV; tractor show rig; boat; what ever…. Kills my wife and kids just as easy as a same size commercial rig.

Now let me go find a rock to crawl under while I get bashed and scalded from responders.

Hazmat to drive a school bus? I don't think so. For school bus, you need a Class B CDL with school bus and passenger endorsements. If the bus has air brakes, you also need the air brake endorsement. If you are only driving charter-type buses, you don't need the school bus endorsement. And before most places will hire you for driving a school bus, you will need a background check and after you are hired you will be subject to random drug testing.

Maybe that's dependent on the state, but in PA school bus drivers, last I knew, had to have HAZMAT.

Any position that includes driving a commercial truck of any sort as your primary responsibility, requires drug testing.

I have been thinking the same thing after this summer. I want to buy a 5 year old Dodge dually, GVWR of 12K. I have a tandem dually trailer, GVWR of 20K. This puts me at 32K GCWR. I had two tractors and two plows on this trailer this summer behind a one ton Ford and grossed out at 31K. It seems like you can't haul anything under 26K. Why not just get a CDL? I haven't heard any convincing arguments yet. Infractions that a facist DOT officer might throw at me on the side of the road don't really scare me. I am not commercial, lights and brakes are always in good working order, and everthing is tied down to specifications. What is there to worry about?

The DOT is likely going to fine truckers no matter what. If you read some of the alledged "infractions", it can only mean that they basically have a budget to hit in collecting money.
The real issues come in with things like million dollar insurance policies on the rig and load, filing taxes on everything and keeping the "personal" part separated from any "profit" part.
It is much more a hassle than some may realize.
It is just not like it was even 5 years ago when DOT would basically turn their heads if you were a pick up truck with a trailer, especially if you had no load.
But they need money just like most government agencies. Truckers generate a lot of income for them.
For the liability portion, some people will come after everything that own once you have exhausted your insurance limits.
It is just a whole different world, no such thing just hauling a few tractors to a show anymore.

I asked a State Trooper what the fine would be in my state for a first offense of not having a CDL with a rig like yours. He said probably 75.00 bucks + costs if found guilty. That's cheaper and easier than getting the CDL.So far I haven't got caught and I'm getting too old to be studying for a CDL.Plus I have A CDL exemption for up to 80,000# in my state.

The instructor is NOT a law enforcement officer! He is at the test site to preform a driving test only. He isn't interested in the least HOW you get there. That is your problem. Let me ask you this...how is it then that we went out of the test site out on to the free-way and down through town? Does having him in the cab make that right? He knew ahead of time that I would be driving that truck the 1/2 mile to test site. That is not of his concern.

Scotty , your explaination, above all the rest, explains the "why should I " the best. You are very correct , and legal in my opinion. I agree , it isn't just the CDL they are looking to bust you over, BUT, I don't agree that having a CDL makes what you are doing "commercial" either. I do believe it shows you at least had "some" training above driving a car or pick-up truck. So you drive semi for a living but on a free weekend you load up you tractor and plow and head for a "show" and DOT stops you , you hand them your "licsense" and because they see it's a CDL they are going to judge you commercial and fine you for no name / and #,s etc? I don't think so.I agree with all everyone has said up to the point where just having that CDL "opens you up" to anything. Just because I have a cycle endorsment doesn't mean i have to carry a helmet in my car 'case I might jump out and hop on a bike on my way to work.

"Just because I have a cycle endorsment doesn't mean i have to carry a helmet in my car 'case I might jump out and hop on a bike on my way to work."

You are so right, and we are not talking about a motorcyle endorsement either.

The whole issue in a nut shell is that heavy loads need specially trained drivers, functioning brakes, lights, etc. There are also interstate commerce rules that overlay along with fuel taxes. You are required to purchase X amount of fuel in each state to help spread the tax to keep the road up. There is a lot of record keeping that goes along with having a CDL. Even the truckers hate doing it and get busted sometimes. Driver's logs to prove that you are not over the hour limit and have had required stops and rest. You need IFTA stickers for the states that you run in. And we haven't even gotten started.
If you are over 26K, have all of your papers, etc., and cause an accident, you may as well give up most of what you have, they will end up with it.
If you think going over 26K and CDL's are just matter of "getting one", go ahead.

You forgot something. If you are tagged for not having the required license to drive the rig, you will be placed "out of service" on the spot. Then you have to call someone with the proper license to come out & drive it away. Just like drunk drivers, they don't just write a ticket & turn loose. Drunk goes to jail & car gets towed. Overweight gets put out of service until made legal by transfering part of load to another truck. Speed or something similar gets ticket & reminder to behave. Lots more expense than just the fine.

All of what you said and that doesn't touch the paper work/ files that you must maintain in case there is a paper work audit. Not many of those audits yet, but as soon as DOT finds that gold mine, they will follow it until it dries up as well.

In Ohio, we're going through the 10,001 to 26,000 rules implementation right now. One of the questions I asked was about personal off duty use of our company trucks. The DOT office told me that if I get stopped for a roadside inspection, I should tell the inspecting officer that I am on personal business and he can not inspect me until I am back on "duty". While I would like to believe that officer, I really doubt it will go as smoothly as he suggests. I know one of these days I will get stopped going to a plow day or a show and have to see how it plays out.

does all that apply to an private truck??? and not for hire

Guess you missed my point.

I have rode with at least 3 people to get there CDL, yes they were very interested in how the truck got there,They even took my name and Driver License No.

(quoted from post at 13:11:27 01/24/11) You forgot something. If you are tagged for not having the required license to drive the rig, you will be placed "out of service" on the spot. Then you have to call someone with the proper license to come out & drive it away. Just like drunk drivers, they don't just write a ticket & turn loose. Drunk goes to jail & car gets towed. Overweight gets put out of service until made legal by transfering part of load to another truck. Speed or something similar gets ticket & reminder to behave. Lots more expense than just the fine.

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I have heard this enough times for it to be true. And a friendly Michigan Motor Carrier Enforcement officer told me it was a Class 1 misdemeanor (or felony, I forgot) to not have a CDL when it was required. He told me this on the side of the road when he pulled me over with the aforementioned 31K gross load. He luckily let me go and suggested I have a CDL for the load I was driving. I consider myself very lucky because I have heard Michigan is very tough on P/U and trailer combos. This event prompted me into thinking of getting a CDL.

I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I should have said, I haven't heard any convincing arguments[i:76524f5ef8] against [/i:76524f5ef8]getting a CDL. Regurgitating the requirements for commercial truck drivers is not an argument. Why should a person driving a 30K P/U and trailer combo for private use have to have a DOT#, commercial insurance, IFTA sticker, log book, etc. You should have a license for the weight you are carrying (CDL) and nothing else should be necessary.

You have heard that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks? It is true with this whole DOT/CDL thing.
I know how it was years ago. Trust me on this one, it is not that way anymore and getting worse by the day.
31K IS the same as a trucker if you haul it out of your home state (or out of the limits that your state sets for farmers and exemptions)
In the unlikely even that you cause an accident, you need every "t" crossed and "i" dotted.
If you haul over 26K and: go out of state, get paid in any way or make money off the load, then you are interstate commerce and fall under the rules as a trucker doing it for a living.
Those are the ones that they have gotten wise to, and they are focused as much on a P/U w/ trailer as a semi these days.

Ayup. They'll never catch me exceeding my limits (licensing or weight ratings) on what I have now, and that will be more than a ton shy of 26K.

But I will often be over 10K, and that's where they have this pesky propensity for trying to declare you commercial, and start writing you up for all the DOT regs, whether your passenger license is legal for your ratings and load, or even if you have a CDL.

I willingly make an effort to run my pikcup and trailer in compliance with all the FMCSA (not DOT) rules as they relate to weights, loads, securement and so on. I go so far as to carry triangles, fusees and a fire extinguisher, all of which have come in handy at one time or another in my forty years on the road. In the storage area under the middle of my front seat I have a stock of bulbs, fuses and the tools (Torx drivers! Don't get me started!) to change them. Those trailers with sealed light fixtures have spares boxed and cushioned in their chain boxes. On those rare occasions that I set out on a long trip with a heavy or conspicuous load, I will have stopped and scaled it, so as to have a weight slip. My chains and straps are marked, adequate (often to the point of overkill) and kept tight.

I voluntarily comply with the regs that dictate what constitutes a safe load and operation. What I will not, and have no need to, comply with are the registration/paperwork/administrative requirements of the DOT for commercial operation above 10K. Never have been, have no plans to ever be commercial. If those plans change, I'll comply. It won't be a change of attitude if that happens, it will be a change in the situation. Unless and until it happens, I don't need the expense or the headache.

Another of their tricks is to nab a driver with a rig between 10K and 26K, declare him to be in commercial operation, and red tag him for inadequate insurance. You don't just call another driver to get home when they play that game.

(quoted from post at 22:38:58 01/24/11) Another of their tricks is to nab a driver with a rig between 10K and 26K, declare him to be in commercial operation, and red tag him for inadequate insurance. You don't just call another driver to get home when they play that game.

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Wisconsin started playing that game a couple years back. They have been ticketing many people with 1ton, 3/4 ton and even 1/2 ton trucks that exceed 10,00 pounds actual combined weight. Thats where they decided that you are a commercial vehicle and require USDOT numbers, commercial insurance, etc. Thankfully for me there is an exclusion for farm trucks / trailers.

You only get one IFTA sticker. For your home state. You don't have to buy fuel in each state you run. You do have to keep track of the miles you run in each state. Then once tax season is over, they figure how much each state should have gotten for fuel taxes. The states that collected more than their "share" pay into a fund, and the states that collected less, get paid out of that fund. It's run by the feds.

I really doubt anyone today is going to rent you a semi without first having a CDL !

My Grandpa sold insurance and farmed on the side. He could probably pull a trailer full of hay if he wanted.

Exactly right!
I was thinking the same thing.

The rental agency should NOT have rented it out to someone not having a CDL.

scotc,

That is not what the official rules state. Might better find another source for your IFTA information.

From the Q & A IFTA site:

"Do I have to file the quarterly IFTA fuel tax returns?

Yes. If you are licensed for IFTA, a quarterly return must be filed even if you had no activity for the quarter.

In order to complete the IFTA return you must maintain records of all fuel purchases and miles driven in each IFTA jurisdiction for the quarter. Failure to keep adequate records may result in disallowed credits and your fleet average MPG may be reduced to 4.0 as permitted under the IFTA Agreement.

The quarterly returns are due on April 30, July 31, October 31 and January 31 of each year. Failure to file the required quarterly returns will result in the Department issuing computed assessments against your account."

You must pruchase a sticker and maintain logs to file mileage and gallons purchased in EVERY jusridiction, which is every state.

everyone on here seems pretty computer literate so check out www.fmcsa.dot.gov and get the answers yourselves. You may need a DOT number but not operating authority. There are alot of differences in the things you need or don"t need depending on whether or not you cross state lines. I was informed by a MN state patrol that I need DOT numbers for my pickup and gooseneck even for farm use, because farms operate as a business. He went so far as to tell me that "rarely if ever" they see a 1 ton pickup and tandem dually gooseneck being used for personal use only. The point is they KNOW that lots of guys have been flying under the radar for a long time, and they are starting to crack down on them. I think it"s not only a revenue thing, but a safety issue. I"ve seen LOTS of unsafe pickup/gn setups going down the road in my million miles over the road. First of all for any combination with a GVWR of 26,001 or more, a class A cdl is required. I"ve also seen where the truck didn"t have DOT numbers or a vehicle inspection sticker and was towed because it wasn"t legal to be on the highway, and this was a roofing company"s pickup truck. The point is whether we all like it or not, the DOT is cracking down on all of this and it"s just a matter of time before they get to you.
www.fmcsa.dot.gov

mighty, Well said and I rest my case. You nailed it!!!
"It ain't like it used to be!"

Are you sure the sticker for every state you run in talked about is not just a permit for that state? Walk through a truck stop and you will only see an IFTA for 1 (one) state on each power unit.

That depends on the state. In Iowa, they absolutely are. Have Badge, cuffs, and side arm to prove it.

Briam,

That may be correct that only the sticker for the state (jusridiction) where the truck is registered, but the rest of it is accurate.
Not only must you have miles traveled in each state, but you must have gallons purchased. Then it is push pull system based on how much you buy in each state.
It is a real pain but in a way it makes sense. It keeps truckers from buying all of their fuel in one particular state, cutting the other states where they drive out of the fuel tax revenue.

730d se
I think you may have read wrong because the other poster said true facts but you replied that is not what the rules say.

It use to be before IFTA that you had to get a fuel permit from each state you went into. You then filed a report for miles driven and fuel bought in that state. If you were short because you bought fuel in another state you still had to pay the tax to this state. This caused a lot of companies to file endless reports because you did each state separately. Some states such as Mississippi would not even let you leave the state unless you were bonded; or bought enough fuel to cover the miles traveled; or pay the tax to the scale master for miles driven.

Now that we have IFTA you only file one report. You get a IFTA sticker from your home state and file a report with your home state.
You must keep records of each mile traveled and where you bought fuel to be able to fill out the report correctly. If you buy to much fuel in X state and not enough in Y state the funds will be transferred for you after filing your report.

The system works much better than the older system we had before IFTA.
Lets say I drive in Iowa and Ill only. Since the tax rate for diesel is 0.2250 in Iowa and 0.4340 in Ill fuel should be cheaper in Iowa. As a trucker I would want to buy all my fuel in Iowa and none in Ill. With fuel tax reporting it forces me to buy fuel in Ill or at least pay the tax to Ill.
To make it simple lets use easy figures.
I travel 1000 miles in each state and get 10 mpg. Since I buy all my fuel in Iowa I bought 200 gals in Iowa and none in Ill. I paid $45 in tax when I bought the fuel. (200 x 0.2250)
When I file my report I owe Iowa only $22.50 (100 x 0.2250) and Ill $43.40 (100 x 0.4340)
Since I over paid Iowa $22.50 they will send this money to Ill for me leaving me a balance of -$20.90 due to Ill
When I file my report I will send a check to my state for the $20.90 short fall and interest on the $43.40 I owe Ill and my state will take care of making sure Ill gets it money.

They really do not transfer every dollar per report. Each state keeps track of how much each state is owed because while I may owe Ill money you may travel in Ill and Iowa only but buy your fuel only in Ill. So once both of us file it becomes a wash.

"PROVIDED you make an attempt to abide by the rules that everyone else follows."

This is what has helped create many of the laws that we have today, people not following the rules that are already set.
The DOT caught on to the growing number of folks that try to run like a "farmer" but are actually hauling for money. They are either hauling tractors and parts for a living, or hauling someone else's stuff for hire. With the growing HP and weight ratings of the duallys, it has become a focus to check them to try to determine if they are real or if they are running under the radar.
So it is pretty simple. If you are hauling for hire, you have a greater chance of getting caught and the fines are steep.
Just like with illegal drugs, they can't seem to catch them all and if someone decides to take the chance, they may run and never get caught.

your right its not how it used to be for sure, problem is around were I live one agent will tell you that you need this so you do it and the next guy that stops you says you need that, its a dang game it seems. Point in case I had been checked over before i left to go on a trip to make sure i was legal and up to date so i didnt worry, well point is i sat at SD scales for 4 hours till someone came and got me because according to him I was not legal to drive my truck, had to place bond before i could leave also. I understand the safety part of things but get real on all the BS. I told the man in SD that he could move it cause according to him I wasnt qualified to drive it. I have hauled and moved things most people would never think about, just my 2 cents worth

I think the bottom line is it all varies state-state, and whether you cross state lines or not. In KY for instance, as long as you"re farm-plated and scale less than 100,000#, AND are within 150 miles of your address of record for said farm, you are CDL exempt. They do ask that you carry a USDOT number, which doesn"t cost a dime and the inspection is not required since you"re don"t fall under operating authority. Anyway, that"s what I came across last month with my registration.