New Regs For Ton Trucks?

I have heard a little lately about some new regs for ton size pick-ups, but only rumors so far. Does anyone have the honest scoop on this?

My 1/2 ton pick-up died in front of a dealer so I asked what they had in a used 4x4. They had an S-10 or a 1 ton extended cab single rear wheel diesel. I chose the 1 ton because I need a full size 8' bed. I have no connection to anything commercial with it. Now, I start hearing this an I am confused.

They are talking about dual rear wheels. I don't think it matters how many wheels your truck has. The deal is your GVW of your truck and trailer together, is 26001 lb. you are a commercial vehicle. Name on the side DOT no. etc.

VicS When you register your truck over 26001 you have to have a class A license and a health card. Unless your hauling for money you don't need a CDL A or a DOT number. Thats from a PA and Md DOT police officers. Also its on the DOT web page. You have to be using the vehicle for compinsation. I'm not sure and I don't have them but I think you have to have triangle flares and a fire Ext. And your suppose to pull on the scales.

VicS When you register your truck over 26001 you have to have a class A license and a health card. Unless your hauling for money you don't need a CDL A or a DOT number. Thats from a PA and Md DOT police officers. Also its on the DOT web page. You have to be using the vehicle for compinsation. I'm not sure and I don't have them but I think you have to have triangle flares and a fire Ext. And your suppose to pull on the scales.

VicS Just another thought. If the truck is over 10001 and is used for hire it needs to be Dot and the driver has to have a health card. Also don't put a name on the truck if your private because that makes you commerical.

(quoted from post at 22:44:07 01/21/11) VicS When you register your truck over 26001 you have to have a class A license and a health card. Unless your hauling for money you don't need a CDL A or a DOT number. Thats from a PA and Md DOT police officers. Also its on the DOT web page. You have to be using the vehicle for compinsation. I'm not sure and I don't have them but I think you have to have triangle flares and a fire Ext. And your suppose to pull on the scales.

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Yeah, but their definition of "compensation" is pretty sweeping and vague.

If you're towing to/from a tractor pull where even just a trophy is awarded, they call that "compensation" and can ticket you for being out of compliance with DOT regulations.

The DOT officer in Md said trophy's didn't count. And if I was in a different state pulling I don't think I would except one, just pull for fun. I'm not sure how that would hold up in court and damn sure would fight it. And sure wouldn't tell DOT that I was pulling for trophy's, anyway, just pulling for fun.

You know the old saying, "one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel."

They have known for a while now that a number of the so called "hauling for fun" duallys with trailers are actually either hauling for hire or reselling all or part of the load. That is clearly "compensation", it goes much further than just possibly winning a trophy at a show.
It is no secret that many attempt to skirt the laws by saying that everything on the trailer belongs to them, when in reality it does not.
So, the only way they can catch the ones that break the laws is make it tougher on everyone.
If you can afford the delays in route, court time and lawyer fees, and fines, maybe you should just go ahead and retire and save yourself a lot of trouble.
A dually with a trailer and no DOT numbers showing is like a fashing red light.

i wouldnt worry about it, i have 2 one tons and one just screams commercial with a 12 foot stake bed, which also has a dump, also a 1 ton dodge diesel, i pull tractors and stuff all over the state and never get bothered, the only time i have to "enjoy" the dot is when im in my kenworth, then their like magnatized to it

mkirsch makes a good point and I'm known for disagreeing that any sale constitutes compensation that requires compliance with commercial vehicle regs.

What is being lost is the notion of a private transaction. Take this case. When I moved here I was downsizing from two properties to one. I found myself with one too many JD 235s, both with mower decks and snow throwers. I sold one of them to a fella who lives 40 miles up the road. I delivered it to him. The tractor was my personal property. It was sold in a private transaction. I was not making money, I was receiving a fair price for something I owned and had used. It was a private transaction, not compensation. And hauling it to his house was no more commercial than if he'd hauled it himself. No different than if I'd sold the guy a sofa.

If I kept a yard full of tractors and regularly bought and sold them, that would be a different matter. That's where the guys you refer to push the limit to make it tough on everybody.

As much as DOT would like to ticket everybody, their zeal for enforcement and revenue does not make the fact and law of a private transaction go away.

I could not agree more.
How about this? Back when I had a dually and trailer before there were so many on the roads, I would at times be hauling for compensation. Other times, I was simply moving something that I owned from one point to another(tractor show but no prizes). Yet, another time, I may have had the exact "private" situation that you described. (not a tractor jocky, but just happened to sell one)
Like everything, there are two sides.
So imagine instead of being frustrated with the DOT, we were the DOT folks out there trying to do our job.
Too many cases where folks try to ALWAYS say it is their stuff, but it is not. How would the DOT design the laws to determine what we were on which trip at which time?
They know that folks make up bill of ladings to say they own the stuff when they are really hauling for hire and/or selling it. They know that many have gotten by for many years, so I guess they look at it like they are just getting a little of it back.
It is best, in my experienced opinion, to either hire a hauler and let them worry about DOT, liabilty, etc., or sell it to someone that has a way to haul it.
The big 3 auto makers are happy because they are selling trucks. The tractor shows and honest people suffer as usual.

The way you guys make it sound , every single person that has a truck and trailer would be a commercial driver, cause lets be honest everybody has sold something at one time or another.

So how does the DOT tell the difference?
And have any us that owned a rig and had a chance to accept money for a haul done it? Or hauled a sold tractor but pretended we still own it.
Those situations are indeed "commercial" under the rules.

Thats exactly what DOT wants. They want everyone under their thumb. Excessive rules and regulations in the name of safety can ruin a country.

With all the talk about compensation, where will it stop? How about the pizza delivery kids. Do all the mail and newspaper delivery people have a CDL? I don't think so. If I haul my personal lawn mower to our church and volunteer to mow it at no charge, can the DOT assume I might be compensated in the long run? It can be a fine line, but I am ready to go to court if a local wants to spend his day off arguing in court.

It is the weight above 10,000 LBS and 26,000 LBS that kicks them over in to DOT range IF they are hauling for hire or compensation.
I have not seen a pizza delivery vehicle that would hit either of those numbers, but I admit that I have not seen everything.
There are a number of elements. Diesel used to be cheap. Now, not many people can afford to even have a rig around unless they moonlight a little to bring in some extra money.

DOT has to use their heads (the ones atop their shoulders), which seems to be a challenge for them. They use the sketchiest of evidence to accuse you of being commercial. They'll even red-tag you for lack of adequate insurance for commercial operation. Any of their tickets written on tht basis, it is then up to you to disprove their allegation. The expense of hiring an attorney to help you disprove it can exceed the cost of their ticket and the hotel room until you can get back on the road.

Like I said in the thread down below, you cannot be ticketed on the basis of a presumption. The facts as presented on the side of the road should guide the issuance of any citation.

Sorry, but an officer cannot ticket me because I "might" be one of those who falsify bills of sale or lading. Until he can prove that I am operating for compensation (and a private transaction is NOT compensation), s/he cannot write a ticket solely on the basis of the configuration of my rig or the nature of my load.

Yes, the guys who game it make it hard, but law is law. There are plenty of private transactions that don't fall under the commercial operation regs. There are a lot of hobbyists whose hobbies require heavy trailers where the combined GVWR falls under 26K.

The presumption that I am in commercial operation because I once sold something is no more valid than the presumption I mentioned in the other thread, that I need a CDL because there are trailers in the world that could be hitched to my truck that might cause me to exceed 26K.

Your different posts in this thread seem to be begging sympathy for the DOT officers.
Sorry, but I don't buy it. Take the revenue factor out of their work, and put their focus back on safety, and there is no more issue.

730d se The way I was told that the only time you need a DOT was when your selling it. Farmers in my area have trucks that aren't DOT and they only haul from field to farm. When they take it from the farm to the grain bins they have trucks that are DOT or they have it hauled and that is where I always see the DOT. Would be the same for a tractor jokey don't you think. And yes I don't think a trohpy is compensation and if i'm out of state and wouldn't except it and how would they know what a pull is giving out. If they have that much time then safety is really going to h---.

So do you have a class a, and a dot number on the side of your own truck??

There is some flexibilty in a certain mile range in most states for farmers hauling their own goods from one farm to the other.
The problem has gotten bad due to all the ones that skirt the laws. So now many of us will have to pay the price.
There are folks hiding behind "farmer" and hauling stuff for hire through several states. That is what I understand tripped their trigger.
Unless they ride with each driver (impossible) they don't know if he is going to a tractor show, an aution, delivering sold tractors, buying tractors, etc. Without log books, they also do not know if this is a one time trip, an occasional trip, or if he runs all the time.
Like I said earlier, just like with a lot of things, a few have ruined it for the rest of us.

sounds like it's time to talk to elected officials and let them know they will be looking for jobs if they don't quit that kind of stuff. and that goes for appointed individuals who are placed by those electred officials and local govt's

soundguy

Again.

A middle-aged white guy with a blond mustache and white goatee once killed a store clerk in a robbery. You can't charge me with murder becasue of his actions.

And you can't ticket me because somebody with a rig like mine broke the rules.

Not the case at all. The rule breakers are the ones that actually guide how the rules change.
They are set to catch the most offenders.
If you are not robbing the bank, they will not come to your home looking for you.

Yabbut, I shouldn't have to prove every time that I drive through the scales, or go about my own business, that I am not the robber in question.

Scotty,

If the many truck drivers that are out there do not have to provide proper documentation, who does?
Look at it like taking a commercial jet. In order to get on one, you must have a valid ticket and go through security. They do not come to your home or make you go through security UNLESS you want to get onboard.
Same with a truck and trailer. They don't know what each one is up to unless they ask. And they know, as I stated, that many have been skirting the laws.
An unsafe vehicle is an unsafe vehicle.
I don't care how independent or entitled someone feels, it is still unsafe.
"I am just going to make one trip" is not a valid excuse, or "I only do this occasionally".
How would you feel if a guy taking his show tractors to a show once in a while and was overloaded hit your family's vehicle and caused damage?
WOW, now we would hear a totally different story out of the same people that complain.
I hate it as much as anyone, I can't haul my show tractors or go pick up stuff that I buy.