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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

How much can I legally haul

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larryanderson

01-21-2011 14:15:11
75.105.32.52



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I have a reg cab GMC 1 ton pickup with single wheels weighs 8000# with a 32ft goose neck flat bed with 10,000 #tandem axle duals.What can I legally haul? I have a regular 3 ton plate on pickup.Thanks.Ive hauled many tractors and havent been stopping at scales but understand i probably should be.I usually stay in Ia but have had a few in bordering states.




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JimEvans

01-27-2011 18:22:57
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Any DOT officer can spot the problems a mile away.
99% of the 3 axle single trailers and 2 axle dually trailers require a CDL to pull them as they are all rated at 20,000+ just for the trailer. Most 2 axle single trailers will not require a CDL, since the combo is below 26,0000 most of the time.

8 bolt axles are 7,000 lbs each, 5 bolt axles are 3500 lbs, and 6 bolts are 5000 or 6000 lbs. Dual tire axles are 10,000 lbs. It is all pretty easy to add up and take a guess at total load.

If I was a DOT officer and an a$$hole, I would pull over every pickup with a heavy trailer and check for CDL. Because of the weight ratings on the 2009-2010 dually pickups, I would pull over every one of them with a tandem axle trailer, including bumper bulls. The new trucks are rated at 13,000 lbs or more, so even a 14,000 lb bumper pull trailer requires a CDL.

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135 Fan

01-27-2011 20:52:57
68.149.56.30



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-27-2011 18:22:57  
And over a certain weight(4500kg here)you have to have tare and GVW numbers on the side of the truck. I think some bigger trucks also need a company name on the side of them but not positive. I got $150 ticket pulling an MF 135 on a tandem trailer behind a 1 ton because I didn't have the weight numbers on the side of truck. A bunch of people who drive commercial trucks said I should have fought the ticket because the truck unit(police)didn't put it on a scale to weigh it. They guessed it was over weight. Would a guess hold up in court because they didn't want to take their scales out? Dave

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730d se

01-27-2011 20:18:14
71.12.22.117



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-27-2011 18:22:57  
That is a very good way of putting it. It appears by some of the replies on here that they think we are just making this stuff up to have something to type.
It is possible to be over 26,000, or overloaded, and not get caught, they can't stop everybody. But, I would not want to take the risk as they have gotten much better at the game.
It used to be that you could take the "back roads", run on the weekends, and late at night be pretty certain that a DOT Smokey was not going to be out looking for you. Not anymore.
If your tires hit the pavement, they could be there.

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Dennis Benson

01-28-2011 04:16:15
64.12.112.203



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to 730d se, 01-27-2011 20:18:14  
Ther're catching more people because DOT has cameras all over the place and people setting at monitors watching them. Our TV news shows the views from the DOT cameras. Big brother is here and watching.



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charles todd

01-25-2011 18:06:31
205.242.95.140



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
What if you have a home built goose neck trailer, built in TX, which did not have a title or a VIN stamped on it, is bought by a guy in LA and has it registered as a farm trailer and has a State Police officer stamp the VIN on it? It has no weight rating on the tags (farm) and no mfg plate on the trailer since it is home built? How would Mr DOT know what the GVWR on the trailer is since it has no data, but is approved by the State DMV and State Police?

CT
This post was edited by charles todd at 18:52:34 01/25/11.

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730d se

01-26-2011 18:49:16
71.12.22.117



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to charles todd, 01-25-2011 18:06:31  
That is an old trick. Axles are required to have a rating tag on them. If not, it would be like Dean says. Their decison on the rating would be final since you did not have one.
Likely could get you for improper equipment, amoung other things.
I would not want to be caught with something like that tied to my truck unless I had some extra cash that needed to be given away.



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Dean Olson

01-26-2011 18:22:44
76.31.42.124



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to charles todd, 01-25-2011 18:06:31  
He would look at the # of bolts in the axle and the specs on the side of the tire. I heard tell of a guy put cheap light weight tires on a 7K axle. DOT shut him down.

I promise guys I'm not making this stuff up.



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JimEvans

01-25-2011 17:55:30
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
That's not the case in Iowa, as there are heavier than rated trucks all the time without issues.
The DOT should be pulling vacationers in their mini-vans over. By the time you put a family and their luggage for a 2 week vacation in a car or minivan today you will be over the GVWR. It would be no worse than our pickups and trailers.

The local car racers have all switched to motor homes and suburbans or vans to pull their trailers. They avoid all DOT hassles by doing that. Their is an awful lot of big Kenworths converted to and licensed as RVs pulling enclosed trailers now. Since they are RVs they are exempt from most of the DOT regulations.

Or we could get a 1953 Mercury car to do our towing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long,_Long_Trailer

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Dean Olson

01-25-2011 16:45:55
162.121.203.0



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to burnetma, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

They have all the specs. I personally got put out of service and issued a ticket for hauling a 14K backhoe on a 20K trailer with a 1 ton pickup. You flat can't do it in TX. I pitched a big biotch, went to court and lost. They never scaled it, said they didn't have to they had the spec on the backhoe,trailer and truck and I was over the CGVWR.
I was also informed that this was a federal law. I still submit that if your doing it and getting by with it it's just a matter of time before you get educated by the DOT.
After I calmed down and thought about it why on earth would you want to haul more than the manufacturer recommends. I decided that I didn't know more than the engineers who designed the equipment.

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john_Bud

01-25-2011 16:14:12
216.222.188.211



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to burnetma, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
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I would respectfully disagree. It is common to go to the DMV or DOT enforcement and get certified for greater than the mfg plate capacity. Typically, all that is needed is to make sure the tires and wheels are rated for the higher load and writing a check. It might be different in your state, but I know that it is sure done here and other places. Very common and very legal.

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JimEvans

01-25-2011 10:34:43
204.54.36.245



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Just so everyone is clear:

There is a GVWR on the truck. That comes from the manufacturer. A 1 ton dually is probably going to be from 10,500 to 13,500 lbs.

There is a GVWR on the trailer. This comes from the manufacturer. For a typical single tire gooseneck, that is 14,000 lbs or a little more. For a dually gooseneck, that is probably 20,000 lbs

For CDL requirements, if GVWR on the trailer + GVWR on the truck must be under 26,000 lbs if you want to avoid the CDL.

There is a GCVWR from the truck manufacturer. That is the total weight the combo can be for towing. For most 1 ton duallys, with a fifth wheel or gooseneck setup, that number is less than 23,000 lbs. The Iowa DOT could care less about this number. It is not on your registration, it is only in the sales literature for the truck. I have heard that at least some Canadian provinces care about this number.

In Iowa, you license your truck for the combo weight you wish to pull. The minimum license is 3 ton. My S-10 is 3 ton. Most 1 tons trucks in Iowa are also licensed as 3 ton (illegal since they weigh 4 ton empty). If you want to be legal to haul 25,999 lbs without a CDL, you need a 13 ton license on your pickup.
Here is where it gets goofy: Because of the laws, I cannot legally pull a empty 20,000 lb GVWR trailer with my dually and no CDL. However, I can pull it legally with my S10, since its GVWR is less than 6000. All I need is a 4 ton license on the S10.

I also can not buy a bigger trailer than necessary (for the extra factor of safety) because then I need a CDL. For example: I want to haul a 10,000 lb tractor on my 4000 lb trailer with my 8000 lb truck. Total weight is 22,000 lbs so no CDL necessary. All I need is a 11 ton license on my truck. But the 14,000 GVW trailer is right at the weight limit, but the DOT doesn't care because I am licensed legally. If I put the same tractor on a 20,000 GVW trailer, I now need a CDL, even though the entire rig is now much safer to go down the road.

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JimEvans

01-25-2011 04:21:37
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to burnetma, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
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My truck doesn't list GCVWR.

If I am wrong, then all the CDL discussion for personal haulers doesn't matter. There is not a 1 ton dually made that has a GCVWR higher than 23,000 lbs. That is not CDL territory.



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larryanderson

01-25-2011 05:08:40
75.104.160.54



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-25-2011 04:21:37  
Seems to have been a popular topic and the feedbck has been interesting and informative.I actually have a 4ton plate on truck but appears I fall into 26001 and over and single wheel trailers are just not heavy enough when we haul hay.I do have a couple of county plated semis that I could use.We used to haul seed beans so I have CDL just got tired of all the B.S.of being commercial.Looks like I will be continue to avoid scales as it might not work to use the farmer excuse.Thanks to all who replied as we can always learn

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730d se

01-25-2011 04:46:53
71.12.22.117



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-25-2011 04:21:37  
Jim,

"GCVWR" as you put it is the COMBINED weight once a trailer is hooked up. The weight rating of the truck, added to the weight rating of the trailer.
Look at it this way, if the truck is 23,000 GVWR, show me a trailer and load that will not exceed the balance of 3,000LBS. Unless you have a small lawn mower trailer hauling cheese puffs, it will be in CDL category.



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willie in mn

01-24-2011 18:58:21
64.12.112.99



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Reading through the responses below, some good points mentioned, some not so good.
The manufacturer should have installed a rating plate on the door post or rear edge of door. This plate includes tire size & ratings. If it has been up-rated by adding heavier tires, springs, brakes, etc, the shop doing this will add a "Final Assembly" sticker next to the original plate. If you do it yourself, you are not legal until this sticker is added, usually by a dealer, or state certified shop.
In case someone else does something stupid & you happen to have an oopsie with your actual weight over the truck rating, you are 100% at fault. It is illegal for you to be there, so you are the cause of the accident. If involved in an inspection, don't even bother trying to bluff your way through about weight. DOT has weight charts of almost every machine & implement by make, model, type, etc.
Willie, diesel pilot-retired.

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IHCPloughman

01-24-2011 18:47:02
173.29.64.50



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to burnetma, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
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I am trying to learn. I am not being snippy. I haven't seen a P/U yet that lists the GCWR on any tag anywhere on the vehicle. The GVWR is on the door tag, but not the GCWR. So, how is the Texas DOT finding this number? Do they ask you to see your owner's manual?



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JimEvans

01-23-2011 18:42:39
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
They don't care. There are 1000s of 1 ton duallys out there that weigh and are licensed for 30,000 lbs. They have DOT numbers, operators have CDLs, etc. There are no DOT issues with them at all.
None of them have a GCVWR from the manufacturer of more than 22,000 lbs.
If they truly cared about the manufacturers ratings, then there would be no issues with CDLs and 1 ton trucks, because they can't weigh more than 22,000 lbs.

The DOT cares about how much you paid them to license your truck. Not what the manufacturer says.

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Dean Olson

01-24-2011 17:48:18
76.31.42.124



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-23-2011 18:42:39  
Jim Evans you are wrong.

It may be that you've gotten by with it so far, or your local cops aren't enforcing it. Good luck with that.



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JimEvans

01-22-2011 07:45:28
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
The IDOT could care less about your Combined weight rating from the manufacturer. That is not on your registration. If you are licensed properly, you can exceed that without issues. They will add up the GVWR of the truck and the trailer to get your GCVWR, which needs to be under 26,000 for no CDL.

Again, you asked about Iowa.

Read this: http://www.iowadot.gov/mvd/omve/truckguide.pdf

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730d se

01-23-2011 15:05:20
71.12.22.117



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-22-2011 07:45:28  
I am willing to wager that NO DOT Inspector would overlook the total combined weight being higher than the combined rated weight.
That would mean that they would allow me to use a single axle 3,500 LB rated trailer to haul my 730d that weights around 10K? I don't think so.
One other point that is absolutely valid. State DOT rules must not be less than Federal, however, states are allowed to go further than the Fed DOT rules if they deem it a safety issue.

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Brian Jasper co. Ia

01-23-2011 13:16:00
72.171.0.149



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to JimEvans, 01-22-2011 07:45:28  
The Ia DOT will care very much if the GCWR on the truck is exceeded. In IA, the DOT regs are the same as federal. When it comes to license, the total weight of the power unit ONLY is what's registered. That total weight is the power unit plus whatever weight the loaded trailer adds to the power units axles only.
The smart thing to do is contact Motor Carrier Enforcement, explain what you want to do, have the actual weight available, and ask what you need to be legal.

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Banditfarmer

01-22-2011 06:25:14
174.103.158.110



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
If your truck has 3 ton plates on it, Your truck is legal to weigh 9000# with a load on it. Your trailer is rated at 20000# loaded. Problem is you will be over the GVCW for your truck no matter how the trailer is loaded. If your gooseneck ball is rated at 15000# you can get a ticket for any thing over that. I think the best thing you could do is go to your locial state patrol outpost and find out for your self what the laws are for your truck and trailer. The information is free and tickets aint cheep! YOU are responsable for your truck, trailer and load, No one else! Be safe. Bandit

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mkirsch

01-21-2011 22:44:28
64.80.108.55



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Tandem dual wheel trailer is 20,000lb GVWR.

Single wheel 1-ton pickup is 9900lb GVWR.

You're at 29,900lb GVWR, which is in CDL territory regardless of whether you use it for personal, or for commercial. 26,000 is the cutoff.

I'm not sure in which states any more, but somewhere you need a dually truck to tow a dually trailer. The truck axle rating has to be equal or greater than the trailer axle rating.

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Dean Olson

01-21-2011 20:22:37
76.31.42.124



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Start with the Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for your truck. The manufacturer will give you this #. It's should be on a plate on the truck.

As an example: I drive a 3/4 ton Dodge with a 5.9 Cummins. Dodge rates it at about 21K CGVWR, this it the total weight of the truck, trailer and cargo. I tow a 25' gooseneck with a GVWR of 14K My truck weighs about 7K, the trailer about 5K That means I can legally tow about 9,000 pounds,(21k-7k-5k=9k). I chose to go with a 2-single wheel axles. Going with dual tandem axles would not have helped me.

In TX that is the 1st thing DOT will look at. They have eliminated all the 1 ton trucks dragging 15K back hoes around on 20K rated trailers, used to be common.

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ericy

01-21-2011 17:08:53
205.188.116.197



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
I have a 92 chevy 1 ton deuly and cary 11'000 plates and my trl at 7000 so with that 18,000 and i haul 5000 to 6000 tractors all over am I in the wrong as long as you do not go over 26,000 you do not need a CDL buttttt in you go 26,001 you'd better have them



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jd b puller

01-21-2011 16:41:40
24.211.242.197



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to burnetma, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

More a matter of "has the DMV emptied your wallet sufficiently", than safety. My truck isn't any safer with 8k plates than 24k, the 24 just cost a lot more. There's no training, no testing, etc, to go higher, just a higher cost.



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730d se

01-21-2011 16:13:21
71.12.22.117



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
There always people that pop on here and tell how much they haul with a VW Beetle and a Radio Flyer Wagen. But the truth is to be legal, you cannot haul much without a CDL when you have the proper truck and trailer.
It is not a matter of if it will roll down the road, it is a matter of is it totaly safe as deemed by the DOT in each state that you drive.



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JimEvans

01-21-2011 15:54:06
66.185.0.208



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
In Iowa, if you are licensed for the unloaded weight, you are allowed to haul personal items as long as your total weight stays under 8 tons + tolerance. That means 16,800 lbs.

So legally you should have at least a 4 ton license on the truck. 5 ton would be better. It will depend on the interpretation of what constitutes an empty truck. I think it is empty pickup + the pin weight of the trailer. Unfortunately with that truck and trailer, your combo probably weighs about 15,000 lbs empty. So legally, (with a 4 ton license) you can haul about 1800 lbs.

Legally, you need a CDL with that combo, since GVW of the truck (9500?) + GVW of the trailer (20,000) exceeds 26,000.

You can avoid the CDL with a 14,000 GVW trailer (single tires). Unfortunately, you are going to have a tough time being legal on weight pulling a gooseneck. I wouldn't be stopping at any scales and in fact, would avoid driving past them if possible.

I am barely legal with my dually and a 14,000 lb bumper pull trailer. I can legally haul one tractor that weighs less than about 5500 lbs.

I have a 6 ton license on my dually and no CDL. I do live in Iowa, so ignore the comments from anyone that doesn't know Iowa's intra-state rules.
This post was edited by JimEvans at 15:58:19 01/21/11.

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VicS

01-21-2011 15:45:02
98.134.223.190



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
So your whole rig weights 8000 lb? What license weight do you have on your trailer. Your GVW together is over 26000lb I just read the law in Il. It says 26001 GVW is a commercial vehicle. Yes you should stop at weight scales. If I was getting by, I might keep on keeping on. You know 6000 is for 1/2 trucks.



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Randy Freshour

01-21-2011 14:47:52
69.24.113.140



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 Re: How much can I legally haul in reply to larryanderson, 01-21-2011 14:15:11  
Your numbers are not making any sense. If your truck weighs 8000 lb. and you have a 6000 lb. plate your already overweight and not legal. You would need at least a 9000 lb. or more plate just to pull the empty trailer.



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