Interesting thoughts

Much discussion about the DOT and the enormous fines that can be levied for sometimes seemly frivilous violations. Or shall we say, the "crime does seem to fit the fine".
The 8th Amendment of the US Constitution states the following:
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
When I read that, there does not seem to be much room for interpetation. Clear as a bell, as they say.

So, have the DOT and other agencies turned in to a budget supporting money generating machines instead of serving and protecting?

Think about this, while we know there are unsafe rigs rolling as I type, would we not be better served if they worked on the illegal drug and illegal alien problems more than some guy with a blown tail light and a chain binder that is not clearly stamped with load ratings?
Why, do we wonder, do they seem to focus more and more on duallys pulling gooseneck trailers? My "guess" is that they figure anyone that put $50,000 in a new truck and pull a trailer has got what they are really out there looking for, $$$$$. And, they may not have to contend with the huge law firms that most trucking companies have on retainer.
And here is another angle to the way the laws work. Is a monetary fine system fair? Does it actualy create a safer highway? There is no real proof that is has worked all of these years because they are still catching people breaking the laws.
Those stiff fines are not all fair. Here is why. A person or company with deep pockets can pay the big fines and keep on rolling, does not effect them at all.
A guy out there barely getting by paying the same fines could be put out of business! That is not the way the Constitution reads to me.
Do you think the insurance companies are not also involved? They must do back flips everytime someone"s insurance goes up due to one of the highway robberies performed by a badged officer of the law.

"So, have the DOT and other agencies turned in to a budget supporting money generating machines instead of serving and protecting?"

Though they still have a safety role, their revenue generation seems to have taken over.

A burned out bulb should not be a fine. Nor should a missing clip to hold a wire loom. The notion of what defines a clean windshield is awfully subjective. In Maine, at least for passenger vehicles, they used to issue 24-hour cards, on which the officer noted the minor defects needing correction. The driver then needed to make the necessary repairs, and have a state inspection station sign off that the repairs had been made. No fine involved. Nominal cost for repairs and fees paid to the inspection station. Then mail the card back in.

I don't know that such a system was ever in place for commercial vehicles, but it ought to be. Yeah, bald steer tires or shot kingpins ought to get a red tag, but a burned out bulb over a licese plate shouldn't cost $500.

Fact of the matter is that a lot of the diesel bears behave like jack-booted thugs. There are a couple of rest areas at the southern end of I271 in Ohio, just a couple of miles from where it joins I71 that draw a lot of overnight trucks. I heard on the CB one morning that DOT was rousting truckers out of their sleepers for logbook inspections. (They seem to do that a lot in the truck stops, too.) I needed to pull in anyway. Had the carhauler on behind so pulled into the truck parking area. The DOT man was standing on the passenger side steps talking to a driver through the open window. What I heard and saw was interesting. The driver told the bear that he had put in a full 14-hour day, and was only five hours into his out-of-service/sleeper time, and that for him to perform any function related to the operation of a truck in his charge (Note he did not mentions "this" truck.), including vehicle or document inspections would put him in violation of the hours-of-service rules. In short he would be in violation of the regs if he were to comply with the officer's request.

Dunno how he made out with that, but the cop was off beatin' on somebody else's door when I came back out.

(quoted from post at 22:11:48 01/16/11) Much discussion about the DOT and the enormous fines that can be levied for sometimes seemly frivilous violations. Or shall we say, the "crime does seem to fit the fine".
The 8th Amendment of the US Constitution states the following:
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
When I read that, there does not seem to be much room for interpetation. Clear as a bell, as they say.

So, have the DOT and other agencies turned in to a budget supporting money generating machines instead of serving and protecting?

Think about this, while we know there are unsafe rigs rolling as I type, would we not be better served if they worked on the illegal drug and illegal alien problems more than some guy with a blown tail light and a chain binder that is not clearly stamped with load ratings?
Why, do we wonder, do they seem to focus more and more on duallys pulling gooseneck trailers? My "guess" is that they figure anyone that put $50,000 in a new truck and pull a trailer has got what they are really out there looking for, $$$$$. And, they may not have to contend with the huge law firms that most trucking companies have on retainer.
And here is another angle to the way the laws work. Is a monetary fine system fair? Does it actualy create a safer highway? There is no real proof that is has worked all of these years because they are still catching people breaking the laws.
Those stiff fines are not all fair. Here is why. A person or company with deep pockets can pay the big fines and keep on rolling, does not effect them at all.
A guy out there barely getting by paying the same fines could be put out of business! That is not the way the Constitution reads to me.
Do you think the insurance companies are not also involved? They must do back flips everytime someone"s insurance goes up due to one of the highway robberies performed by a badged officer of the law.

Click to expand...

The old farmers are easy pickins. They might cuss the DOT out but the fines will get paid.

These young illegals have no ID, no Insurance, no nothing, most never return on court day which means no big fines are paid. You never know what they will do when pulled over. Things are only going to get worse.

DOT has practically set up a permanent headquarters there since you've moved.

One of my suppliers has a 2010 Sterling boom truck that he bought in March of 2010. He's been inspected 3 times in 9 months even though they are only supposed to harass you no more than every 6 months. He's paid 3 fines on this new truck. The last fine was because the DOT officer, and I use that term loosely, thought one of his roof top cab lights was dimmer than the other 4. Only cost him $120 for a "dim" light on a truck with less than 5000 miles on it. In the past 20+ years, he never got pulled over. He buys a new truck and it's 3 times in less than 1 year. Last DOT "officer" told him they were pulling over the new trucks because if you can afford a new truck, you can afford the fines. Wealth redistribution at it's finest.

"Last DOT "officer" told him they were pulling over the new trucks because if you can afford a new truck, you can afford the fines. Wealth redistribution at it's finest."

This reinforces my gut instinct of what is really going on out there.
I am so glad that they got that 1 out of 4 dim cab light fined and on the way to repair. Can you imagine the accidents that has caused? LOL

It is a TAX and Highway robbery.
My sad tale starts just after I bought a new to me truck. Got all the appropriate paper work put together in my truck book, got the stickers on the side of the truck. Bought the tags and put the temp paper plate in the windshield and away I go. Got through the scales in TX,LA,MS,AL,and the 1st 2 in FL. 3rd scales pull me in and put me out of service. No plate. They wanted to make me sit until the real plate was delivered. Wrote me a ticket with a $2200. fine. Remember I have the temp paper plate and all the receipts saying the proper tags had been purchased. Ok everywhere but not in FL. It took an attorney getting involved for them to let me go. They would not reverse the ticket.
Next story goes I get pulled into the scales in TX and it's my turn for a level 1 inspection. OK no problem I keep my truck in great shape. Civilian inspector come back a tells me that I don't have enough bolts holding my 5th wheel to the tractor. WTH!! I go look and there are 11 holes with 8 bolts, on each side, that hold it to the frame. Just the way the Peterbilt built it. Empty holes still had paint in them. No matter Rules require that I have 80% of the holes filled and I only had 72%. In other words 1 bolt short. Put me out of service and $140 fine.
This is just 2 of the most blatant examples. DOT and our government are just hostile towards business of any kind.

If you deal with OSHA, it's going to get much worse with them, if that's possible. One of the trade associations that I belong to is saying that OSHA is talking about raising fines 500% to 1000% for minor violations like not wearing a reflective vest in the highway right of way (30' from the center line of the road). Currently, I believe the fine is around $100, they have heard it will be $1000 soon.

You can never convince me that stopping vehicles on the highway is safe. Any DOT cop that stops people along the freeway should be sued for causing an unsafe condition, just for their own pleasure. The sign says emergency stopping only.

Almost every trucker in my part of the country can tell a story like yours.One DOT officer openly boasted to a friend that he can find something on most any new or newer truck that will make for a nice fine.

Its almost like they dont want any trucks on the road these days.They know that we are all at their mercy and they take full advantage of it.The fines for little things have gotten crazy.

DOT is on a huge power trip right now and its going to get much-much worse.They seem to answer to no one.

Would we be better "served & protected" if they were looking for stolen explosives, unsafe chemicals, illegal drugs, illegal aliens, etc., than out there just collecting as much money as they can?
What they are doing is basically not why they were placed in to service and in some cases, their actions are unconstitutional and create a safety hazard.

My Dad had a saying - "Give a man a little authority, and he'll show you how much class he has".

Not all DOT inspectors are bad. California has a reputation for being really nit-picky. My experience at northern Ca scale.
Got the red arrow. Inspector said policy is unless they see something really bad on scale, 4 rigs get green light, next one gets red arrow. Only thing wrong was trailer wheelbase too long. Knew I was going thru Ca, so measured distance from pin, made marks at 40 & 41 feet, center of tandem was at 40',6". Oops, most states measurement is to center of tandem, but Ca is 40' to LAST AXLE. Inspector(female) looked at marks on trailer, leaned against wall & said,"Hmmm, in my best judgement with over 20 years doing this, it looks like you made honest effort to comply. I'll hold the pin for you, shorten it up 6",& have a nice trip." Offered me a cup of coffee while writing a clean inspection report.
Willie

one of the reasons im selling my truck, the economy is bad, the insurance has gone up 500% over the last 15 years, and idiot dot cops fresh from school and hasseling truckers over minor stuff as well as stuff that is not wrong but the cops lack of knowledge on truck equipment lets him write tickest for makes it just not worth it anymore , case in point i personaly saw a driver i know recieve a ticket from a dot cop for 'unsafe equipment' the equipment deemed unsafe by the cop, was the brake release valve under the hood of a 2010 mack that lets the front axle brakes release a split second before the drive axle brakes to keep the front axle from possibly causing a skid on slippery serfaces, this valve is on nearly all new trucks as a safety device installed at the factory, since the kid cop hadnt seen one before he decided it was unsafe

Amen to that!

right. because the insurance companies pay for election campaigns. the whole govt is by design then, of, by, & for the rich (ever see a poor guy win a senate or presidential race?) so there it is. even if the system was changed so that every single dollar used in a campaign had to be public money, the rich still win. cuz now the poor would pay a disproportionately high (as a % of income)portion of their money toward the campaigns. 25% of $1000 leaves you with very little, but 25% of one million still leaves you with alot of $. the rich & very poor pay little or no taxes. 8D

in that case its called COURT. use it you pay for it anyhow.

the issue then is that nobody cares enough to stand up for their rights & this is why theyre going away like a fire sale!

court. use it. i go to court on any & all tickets, even if im in the wrong. its my right i paid for it & if they want my $ (they already got a third from taxes) they can earn it.

If the DOT is simply a revenue-generating entity now, they're doing a pi$$ poor job of it...

Sit down and figure out exactly how many man-hours, how much equipment, how much office space, etc., is involved in writing you that $100 ticket... There's way more than $100 worth of "overhead" involved in processing that ticket.

People claim the highway patrol is just out to generate revenue... Then how come I RARELY see a NY State Trooper with someone pulled over? They usually sit in the medians on major highways watching people zip by at 10 MPH over the speed limit.

If a highway patrolman is supposed to be making money for the government, he should be spending more time on the right shoulder of the road with his lights on, than in the median calmly watching people blatantly break the law.

It has been a long time since anyone talked about a "$100 fine". We are talking about fines much higher than that for sometimes very frivolous and debatable violations.
I realize that with everyone point, someone can find or report a different point.
Let's look at this way. If the fine system is designed to reduce the offenses, why has it not ever worked?
Case in point. A guy is driving after a bartender has overserved him so the bartender could get the largest tip and generate the most profit for the bar. The guy gets stopped after he leaves the bar and fails the sobriety test.
He is taken to jail and pays hefty fines. His insurance company's stock price inches up because they will now charge him high rates once he gets his license back.
He hires a lawyer that tells him he can possibly get him out of it and that cost him $1,500. The lawyer is happy because now he can go by that new set of golf clubs and pay cash.
So they all end up in court, the lawyer finds a wrinkle in the evidence and the charges are dropped.
That night, the same guy needs to celebrate his "vitory" so what does he do? He goes out to the same bar and gets drunk.
The decison to drive drunk and stiff fines have no real connection whatsoever.
How about instead of all the folks lining up to get their share of the money, he is given therapy to determine what the real problems may be?
That would leave the lawyers, the insurance companies, and others to find a way to make big money in other ways.
The bottom line is that the driver would be getting something that could prove usefull to help him make better decisions.
Oh, and the bar owners need to pay if they are going to play. They should have a sobriety testing machine at every doorway. If a driver has been overserved, the bar should buy them a cab ride.
The big problem with an ".08" is that everybody's chemistry is different. I can have two cocktails, and my friend have the same. But one of us could pass and the other fail.

We all know that the government is the least efficient system for money management, revenue generation vs. net. They do not have to go out and sell a product or a service to generate income. They simply ask the government for more $$$ and also produce revenue as needed by writing tickets.

If they were truly about safety, marker lights and minor issues would be a warning and not a $100+ fine for each occurrence.

I was at a meeting with DOT several years ago. A question was asked by one of the attendees, "Can I have DOT come out and inspect my vehicles at my lot so that I know I am compliant and if I"m not compliant I can make repairs before I get caught in a roadside inspection and face fines". The answer, if we come out and inspect, we will fine you for any violation even though your trucks are not on a public highway. How could they fine someone that for a vehicle that was on private property and not in operation on a public highway at the time? I would love to have DOT come out and make sure I"m compliant, but I will not risk fines for vehicles that are not in service on public roads. We do our best and so far have not been stopped, but then again, the rules I operate under had a deadline of 1/1/11 for enforcement. Fingers crossed.

There is a current case in Ohio that involved a fatality. DOT did their accident investigation and the total fines are around $6200. I"m OK with that on the surface. The real kicker is that $3800 of the fine is because the company did not have 1 form, yes, 1 piece of paper filled out. It"s form called "Statement of On-Duty Hours to be filled out for new hires showing on-duty times for the previous 7 days. This form is for new hires so that the company knows the if the new hire is over their allotted hours. From what I heard directly from a DOT officer familiar with the case and the company hired by the drivers company to fight the $3800 fine, the "new" hire was unemployed the 7 days prior to starting his new job and was not a driver in his previous employment. The company felt that since he was not a driver and had not worked for several months and therefore had no on duty hours accumulated for over a year, the form was not required. $3800 for an honest mistake seems pretty steep as the paper work violation was not related to the accident or the fatality and reeks of fishing for money in my opinion. Instances like this are over the top in my opinion. If DOT truly found direct safety violations that led to the accrual of $6200 worth of fines then the company should pay.

They are pretty cool in NY, they usually let you get away with a little extra if you aren't being an A-hole about it. But most of my miles in NY were on the throughway, they don't need to write tickets, they hand them out when you get on it.