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1/2 or 3/4 ton. Help me decide

D

Deere_Man

Member
I currently have a 2002 f150 that I have been considering trading in for a crew cab to make life easier with the kids. My plan was to get a duramax with the Allison as I think it is an awesome combo. I've been looking for a while and just think that the price of all vehicles new or used is out of hand. How can they justify asking $26,000 for a truck that has 150,000 miles on it. All the dealers must have gone to the same school as they all have the same answer "it's a diesel, it's just getting broke in." my response is always the same as well "yeah but the wheel bearings and suspension aren't diesel."

Anyway I've been thinking about stAying with a half ton just to save a little money. The heaviest thing I pull is my jd 50 shock I figure is around 8000-8300 including the trailer. The chevy 1500 says it can handle 9000 with a load leveling hitch (which I have) but it just seems from experience with pulling other loads with my current half ton that it would just be A little heavy. I have never pulled this tractor as I am finishing up the restoration. I really don't want a gas 3/4 ton due to the mpg's they get. Any thoughts? Thanks
 
I use a K-2500 6 Ltr auto with 3.73 rears. and keep the load range E tires so when pulling camper don't get sway that you do with P type tires. I get 17 MPH driving 60 MPH. and 13.5 pulling a 5800 lb camper. In WV. The K-2500 is rated for a 9400 lb trailer.
 
This is just my own personal opinion, but 7000lbs is the limit for comfortable towing with ANY 1/2 ton truck.

You're looking at an 8000lb tractor plus at least another 2000-2500 for the trailer. You gotta add the trailer weight into what you're towing.

Now you're at 10500lbs which is the tow limit for the heaviest-rated 1/2 ton.

So you get the heaviest 1/2 ton... Problem is the max tow rating is with an empty truck. Put the wife and kids in the cab and now you've just reduced your tow rating by up to 2000lbs. No, your kids and wife don't weigh 2000lbs... Let's say they weigh 200lbs combined. That reduces the tongue weight carrying capacity of the truck by 200lbs, and seeing as you need to have a tongue weight of at least 10%, that translates to 2000lbs less trailer you can tow.

No sir, you are FIRMLY in 3/4 ton territory.

I was in your shoes looking for a truck. GM diesels are grossly overpriced. Used Dodges are beat to pieces. Ford diesels just scare the pants off me.

I ended up with a nice dually with the 8.1L gas engine, but I don't drive it all the time so I can live with the bad gas mileage. I figure 3 years at $300 a month vs. 5 years at $400 a month... I can buy a lot of gas for that kind of money.
 
You wont have any trouble pulling it with a 1/2 ton. A JD50 wieghs 4500lb plus any weight youve added. a Trailer should be just under 2000. use a low car type hauler to carry it . the lower trailers are easier to load and have almost no wind resistance.
 
(quoted from post at 19:12:47 10/29/10) I use a K-2500 6 Ltr auto with 3.73 rears. and keep the load range E tires so when pulling camper don't get sway that you do with P type tires. I get 17 MPH driving 60 MPH. and 13.5 pulling a 5800 lb camper. In WV. The K-2500 is rated for a 9400 lb trailer.
Click to expand...

Wow! I've never talked to anyone that got that sort of mpg's with a 6L in a 2500 4x4 truck. Everybody around here gets 12-13 empty and 7-9 towing a load. Are you saying that your truck averages 17mpg when you calculate many tanks or that the dash read out shows 17mpg while on the freeway?

Driving like an old lady my old 5.3L 1500 truck got 16.5 lifetime average and the best it ever got was 20.1 on a 120 mile run at exactly 55mph. My duramax diesel gets just a hair better than your gas truck with a 17.6 mpg lifetime average. It will get up to 20-21 mpg driving like a granny on the freeway with little traffic, but also gets 12-14 towing a tractor. Those numbers are from keeping an excel sheet of every drop of fuel used.


Deere-man. I would say that getting a 1500 will give you better gas mileage overall and save lots of money compared to a gas 2500 -- but when you tow you will be maxing out the truck. I used to tow 9000# all the time with the 1500 (above) and it did it, but the trailer would bounce the truck around. Weight dist hitch will help that. It's also mandatory that you keep the trailer brakes in tip top shape! The much lower cost of the gas truck will more than pay for the extra fuel used compared to a diesel. Actually, with the cost of diesel being higher than gas, there really is no break even point. The diesel will always cost you more to own and operate. Diesels are being expensed out of the average joes reach by "environmentalists" (IMHO).

It comes down to how much you tow, the roads you tow on and how uncomfortable being at the tow max makes you. If you tow little or only on good roads with little traffic or big hills, the 1500 makes a lot of sense. If you tow a lot or in traffic , or up big hills or the truck being at the max makes you nervous -- a 2500 makes a lot of sense.

If you want to stay in a ford and want to go bigger, the V10's always impressed me. The really don't suck much more fuel than the 5.4l. They seem to be reasonable priced used too.
 
Thanks all. My total weight will be at the 8,000 mark. I currently pull a "B" which the ford f150 does decent with but it will really slow down on hills. The 50 will have another 1,000-1,200 pounds on it as the 50 also has an 801 hitch. I probably only tow like this 3-4 times a year but have the family with me and want to be safe. As my truck is my daily driver fuel eff. is also important. I have never heard a complaint about the 6 litre as far as being a great truck. I have just never heard of anyone getting more than 11 city 15 highway.

I'm thinking the used market has to soften up sooner or later so it might pay just to keep waiting.
Thanks
 
you can just BARELY get a 50 up to 8000 if you hang 2500 on it &
fill the tires with fluid! wtf its 4500 WITH fluid. so minus fluid plus
the hitch which is only 200. trailer MIGHT weigh 2000 but only if its
a real stout one or oversized. I pull my R @ 9300 plus a real heavy
trailer with my 84 half ton ford on a bumper pull & its got 1 broken
leafspring on both sides. & its a straight six. geez.
 
Mine is a regulal K-2500 not a HD. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I don't like the ride of HD.
 
You can tow a lot with a 1/2 ton truck, but just don't expect to do it very quickly or comfortably.

I can't imagine that straight 6 Ferd covers many miles in an hour with 9300lbs of trailer behind it. Mostly in 1st and 2nd I'd imagine.

That's all well and good if you've only got to move something a few miles, or you don't care how fast you get there, or you don't care if the transmission drops out on the ground halfway to your destination...
 
Pulls it 55-75 in 4th gear with a manual tranny depends on wind.
Auto would give up in 50 miles. It aint pretty but im just sayin. A
50 on the proper sized trailer is well within range of any half ton.
The half tons of today are way more capable than my 84. I've
pulled thousands of miles with the pedal to the tin with no ill
effects on the engine. It handles poorly with the overload but stops
fine due to trailer brakes that work. If i had a 5th wheel it would be
fine pulling the R. Total weight is around 12k id imagine.
 
I pulled my JD A (4900 lbs) around with a 84 Chevy 4x4 1/2 ton truck and a 7K car trailer for several years, but I knew it was overloaded. Sure it pulls it, but it is not designed to pull it. Needless to say, the receiver hitch on all 1/2 ton trucks is only rated for 5,000 lbs.

I stepped up to a 05 F-250 4x4 Crew Cab Diesel and a 14K gooseneck trailer. I wouldn"t trade either of them for the world. I can idle down the road and never know I am pulling a load. Unlike the 1/2 ton truck matted to the floor on hills.

It all comes down to economics and usage. If you can afford a 3/4 ton, go for it. A 1/2 ton truck can do it, but I would only haul it around locally as it is a bit unsafe. If you are only looking at hauling 2-3 times a year locally and daily driving, then you might go for a 1/2 ton. Anymore than that and I would strongly suggest a 3/4 ton. I wouldn"t let fuel mileage determine my selection as the usage of the truck should be the determining factor.
 
I think you're looking for trouble... I don't think I'd really want that kind of weight on a bumper pull behind a 3/4 ton either when it comes right down to it.

Rod
 
Forgive my ignorance, but besides a heavier engine, trans, suspension, rear axle, etc., isn't the braking system on a 3/4 ton also heavier? I would be as concerned with stopping as going.
 
Yes, they have larger rotors, calipers, and pads (at least mine does), but I guess you could say the extra braking offsets any extra tow braking by the extra weight of the truck. Regardless of any truck, your trailer should have top notch brakes. State law in KY states you have to have as much braking capability on the trailer as its towing capacity. Therefore, 1 axle brakes on a 7K car trailer doesn't cut it. That would only be 3500 lbs worth of brakes. A pendelum type brake controller makes braking a whole lot nicer too. It doesn't let it do the jerking thing when the brakes are applied. I love my Tekonsha P3.
 
The difference between HD and yours is the gear ratio. ALL HD's have 4.10 and a stronger frame in the rear. The 'light duty' 2500 has 3.73. perfect for camper pullin. I work as a GM mechanic. I ve never seen a 6.0 with a 4L80E trans get 13.5 pulling itself. you have a one of a kind.
 
I take a small trip to MO "656 Miles" at least once a year. Mine is a 2004 Mod Crew Cab. and I get 17 running with cruse set at 60 MPH. normaly around town get about 13 to 14.
 
I have a 2003 Chevy 2500 HD quad cab long bed with a Duramax and Allison trans and get 22-24 mpg empty on the highway and run about 68 MPH. I have a 14k 22 foot gooseneck I pull and get 12-14 mpg with a 7000 lb. tractor on it. Don"t skip on safety with your toy haulers because it"s not just your family, what if you lose control and I"m coming at you in the opposite direction with my family? As an over the road truck driver/owner, nothing infuriates me more than to see someone going down the road with an unsafe/illegal towing setup like a half-ton pickup with a car trailer with their 8,000 lb tractor on, and usually the trailer lights don"t work. Your bumper hitch is rated for 500 lbs tongue weight and 5,000 lbs towing. Even a class 3 receiver is rated the same. Get a proper set up or stay home.
 
Have you considered the new Ford Ecoboost? There's an article on MSNBC about power and fuel economy that seems pretty impressive. The V-6 is a gas miser empty and a hauler when needed due to the new direct injection engine. I think direct injection technology is very interesting. GM has it with their HCCI. I believe you'll see a lot of this in the future. Gerard
 
What do todays 1/2 tons have for leaf springs? 3 or four? First thing Id do is have more springs added. Heres my 2000 f250 it had 5 leafs in the back per side, 3 years ago I had 2 more added on each side. Wasent to bad about $230.00 bucks.
a25333.jpg
 
They are referring to the life of an over the road diesel which is a totaly different engine, save the fact that they burn the same fuel.
Ask them for their data showing that light duty diesels in the big three run a million miles like the ones they refer to when they say, "it is not even broken in."
And you are correct, much of everything else that wears is "like a gasoline" truck so their comparison is BS like most of what dealers and car salesman say to get a deal.
 
if your going to pull it once in a awhile you'll be fine if your trailer brakes and everything is properly loaded. i pulled loads thousands of miles w/1988 f-150 with 351. the trailer brakes could almost stop the truck and the trailer when full loaded.we're talking 7-8000lbs. all the time. the biggest thing is drive what you feel comfortable and safe with and make sure all equipment is working properly! Be safe.
 
Just bought a new 2010 i/2 ton chev,with 5 quart motor ( I know but I'm not into metrics) probably last new truck It will sit in garage with comp only ins when calcium solution is on roads. (dec till april). also bought 97 f250 hd for $1000.00 with 460. yes it will pass anything but a gas station. it's 4x4. winter use AND will pull tractors to shows or whatever. Insurance liability only on old ford is $200/year. Lots cheaper than letting new chev rust out before I rust out.
 
Just bought a new 2010 i/2 ton chev,with 5 quart motor ( I know but I'm not into metrics) probably last new truck It will sit in garage with comp only ins when calcium solution is on roads. (dec till april). also bought 97 f250 hd for $1000.00 with 460. yes it will pass anything but a gas station. it's 4x4. winter use AND will pull tractors to shows or whatever. Insurance liability only on old ford is $200/year. Lots cheaper than letting new chev rust out before I rust out.
 
Just bought a new 2010 i/2 ton chev,with 5 quart motor ( I know but I'm not into metrics) probably last new truck It will sit in garage with comp only ins when calcium solution is on roads. (dec till april). also bought 97 f250 hd for $1000.00 with 460. yes it will pass anything but a gas station. it's 4x4. winter use AND will pull tractors to shows or whatever. Insurance liability only on old ford is $200/year. Lots cheaper than letting new chev rust out before I rust out.
 
Ask ten people and you will get ten reasonably
true and accurate but different stories.
In you application the 1/2 ton 4WD crew cab
car/truck with the 4.8 and tow package is
sufficient.
The power is good, the suspension,electrics and
cooling is there. Plus the price is right being in
the low $30,000's brand new with warranty.
Takes a long time to save $25,000 in fuel costs
to just break even on the diesel.
After 10 years around here being exposed to
winter road salt. Diesel or not, everything except
the engine and trans is getting rotten and rusty.
Hard core diesel fans keep talking about diesel
reliability and longevity. Lets check a 2010
gasser vs. a 2010 diesel.
At 300,000 miles the gasser will still be
running with three sets of plugs, some filters,
oil changes and a set of O2 sensors.
Lets see, a diesel with common rail fuel
injection, exhaust particulate filtration,urea
injection and variable vane turbo? At 300,000
miles?
Get ready to open up your wallet sometime
between warranty expiration and 300,000 miles with
an emissions diesel.
It isn't 1998 any more with just a Cummins
straight six,a plain turbo and a Bosch P pump.
 
Thanks for everything guys - I quit following this and just now got caught back up. My trailer weighs 2900 lbs empty as I wanted a heavy one with brakes on both axles. I think the half ton would do it but it would just be more comfortable I think on a 3/4. I would also like to get a larger tractor in the future which may be anything from a 630 to a 720 or even an R. There is a very valid point made about how long today's vehicles last today, especially with the brine solution they use on the roads today. The gas is probably the economical solution for me but I'm not excited about what the 6 litre engine gets at all.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:02 11/06/10) I have a 2003 Chevy 2500 HD quad cab long bed with a Duramax and Allison trans and get 22-24 mpg empty on the highway and run about 68 MPH. I have a 14k 22 foot gooseneck I pull and get 12-14 mpg with a 7000 lb. tractor on it. D
Click to expand...

Those mileage reading are taken at steady state from the dash display. Come back mileage after a couple tanks of a known amount over a known distance and do some math.
 
(quoted from post at 18:21:36 11/05/10) The difference between HD and yours is the gear ratio. ALL HD's have 4.10 and a stronger frame in the rear. The 'light duty' 2500 has 3.73. perfect for camper pullin. I work as a GM mechanic. I ve never seen a 6.0 with a 4L80E trans get 13.5 pulling itself. you have a one of a kind.
Click to expand...

My 6.0L crew cab 4WD with 4L80E gets 12mpg just knocking around with 2 to 5 mile trips.15mpg on a typical trip when the wife or kids need to pee or get a burger every 30 miles.
 
According to external_link: the weights of those tractors are: R:7400, 720:6790, 630:5858. That means with your 2900 lb trailer, you would be at 10,300, 9690, and 8758 respectively. I"m pretty sure the weights given for those tractors is unballasted with no fluids, so you need to add that weight to your transporting weight. You could maybe get away with the 630, but your 1/2 ton truck IS NOT ENOUGH!!!! Remember this is not about "what you are comfortable with", but about what is safe and legal. What are you going to do when you are puttering down the highway with your John Deere R on a bumper pull trailer behind your 1/2 truck at 40 mph (because you don"t have enough truck for what you are doing in the first place) and I"m in my Peterbilt with a 53" van trailer and go past you at the speed limit or faster and just the wind from my truck is enough for you to lose control of your too small setup because IT WILL SWAY! I hope I"m going the opposite direction so when you lose it and land in the rhubarb patch I"m not involved. Or worse we"re on the freeway and you are next to me and the trailer starts to sway and you can"t hold on we get tangled up. You will be at fault, not me. Let"s spend thousands of dollars on the tractor, the paint, the motor, tires, labor and everything else, but go small on a hauler because we"re too cheap to pay for the fuel, or the tuck or trailer.....makes sense to me. I"d rather pay more for a truck and more for fuel to get my tractors around a few times a year, then to end up upside down with my $10,000 tractor on top of me once. I"ll say it again: GET A PROPER SETUP OR STAY HOME!!!!!!!! When I"m on the road in my semi, I"m not afraid to call the state patrol when I see an illegal/unsafe setup because you guys are a danger to everyone around you on the road.
 
Sorry, but *legal* has no bearing in this argument.

Legal only applies to COMMERCIAL trucking.

The only way a cop could get you on weight is if you've got more than 20,000lbs on any individual axle, or 34,000lbs on any tandem.

Since the whole rig won't even come close to 20,000lbs, that's not an issue.

1/2 tons made in the last 5 years have available engines with more horsepower and torque than the biggest big blocks available in 2000. There's no doubt a late-model 1/2 ton can move the load and keep up with traffic better than a dually pickup made in 1999.

Sway is a matter of loading the trailer properly.

Stopping is a matter of maintaining the trailer brakes properly.

Still, even with all that, would I tow 10K with a 1/2 ton? Not very far.

Why? Not because it's "unsafe" or "illegal." Those are bogus arguments.

Why? Because it's UNCOMFORTABLE. It's gonna feel mushy, and the engine is going to be running high RPMs a lot. I wouldn't want to go more than an hour like that because it would drive me up a wall!
 
(quoted from post at 11:15:24 11/24/10) Sorry, but *legal* has no bearing in this argument.

Legal only applies to COMMERCIAL trucking.

The only way a cop could get you on weight is if you've got more than 20,000lbs on any individual axle, or 34,000lbs on any tandem.

Since the whole rig won't even come close to 20,000lbs, that's not an issue.

1/2 tons made in the last 5 years have available engines with more horsepower and torque than the biggest big blocks available in 2000. There's no doubt a late-model 1/2 ton can move the load and keep up with traffic better than a dually pickup made in 1999.

Sway is a matter of loading the trailer properly.

Stopping is a matter of maintaining the trailer brakes properly.

Still, even with all that, would I tow 10K with a 1/2 ton? Not very far.

Why? Not because it's "unsafe" or "illegal." Those are bogus arguments.

Why? Because it's UNCOMFORTABLE. It's gonna feel mushy, and the engine is going to be running high RPMs a lot. I wouldn't want to go more than an hour like that because it would drive me up a wall!
Click to expand...

You are totally wrong on the legal aspect. A highway patrol officer, or DOT officer WILL look at the v.i.n. tag on the trailer, and also on the truck, and if the combined load is OVER the rated capacity for the combination vehicle, you will be paying a hefty fine and the whole rig CAN be impounded. Commercial or non-commercial has nothing to do with it. The laws are written to keep the roads safe for all users.
 
I wasn't doing commercial work when I got pulled over hauling my tractor. I had one officer tell me how good I had everything tied down and it was all within the capacity of the truck and trailer, etc., etc... Then the other officer, after snooping around in the cab, came and gave me a $150 ticket for being overweight and not having the weight numbers on the side of the truck. I was hauling my MF 135 home with my bobcat trailer and a 1 ton truck. This was the commercial truck unit that pulled me over. I tried to explain that I was never told I needed the numbers on the truck, just that the truck and trailer had to be registered as a unit. It makes no difference if it's commercial or not. If they want to find something wrong, they usually do. I had someone tell me I should have fought the ticket because they didn't weigh the tractor, the just guessed it's weight. Dave
 
You dont have a clue what you are talking about.There isnt
one single farm truck in this country hauling what the VIN
GVW plate says.

Most 2 or 2.5 ton farm trucks have GVW"s of 17,000 to
22,000.They all come in to the grain elevators weighing
30,000 which is legal if they have the
axles,tires,liscense,and working brakes.My two farm trucks
weigh nearly 10,000 each empty so would be worthless if I
only loaded them to 20,000 lbs.Mine are always at 30,000.

DOT sat at our local grain elevator one day and the only
ones getting tickets were the ones over on the liscense or
axles.They didnt look at VIN plates or tires..Some states
allow 10% over at harvest.

I personally wont be pulling anything with a newer 1/2 ton
PU but they are far superior to the 3/4 ton or 1 tons of
not that many years ago.
 
He said he was going to get a 3/4 ton but a 2900 lb trailer might not be quite enough for an R or 720 JD.

If I ever start calling in trucks doing unsafe things I'll be calling in far more semi drivers than I will ones with a pickup and trailer.Once in awhile you see a wood hauler or scrap iron hauler thats overloaded.The guys hauling tractors seem to always have enough truck and trailer.The days of the bumper hitch trailer hauling anything more than an 8N Ford are gone around here.Everyone has a dually and a big gooseneck now.
 
Hopefully you guys have put together the fact that I bought a 2900 lb trailer with two 7500 lb capacity brake axles because I like to he safe. If I get a tractor heavier than the 50 I will without a doubt be getting a truck heavier than a half ton. Here are my thoughts for pulling the 50, I really think it can be done safely with a half to considering I have a load leveling hitch and the dual brakes. I just think it will be at the upper end of comfort. What started this was I looked at a 2010 chevy crew cab with the z-71 package and the 5.3 engine. The towing capacity was listed lower than my 2002 f-150 ext. Cab with the 5.4 engine. The dealer (I know, can't trust most of them) said that today's trucks were much heavier than my 2002 but due to regulations, lawsuits etc they were showing lower capacities. I was honestly hoping someone would say "I have a new half ton and pull a 50 or 520 etc and you won't even know it's back there on relatively flat ground."
 
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