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Trailer license question

J

johndeerefan

Member
I live in KY where you don't have to license a trailer if you have farm tags on the truck, much like all other states. Now, I have a KY trailer plate on my 25' gooseneck 14K trailer and farm tags on my F-250. If I were to go to IN, IL, or TN to a show that is more than my 150 mile legal range, what will DOT use as my weight restriction. The trailer plate doesn't have any weight limitations labeled on the plate. It just says trailer. I know on a regular truck plate, you can buy additional weight limit plates. How will they treat the KY farm plates. Will they go by the truck factory specifications, trailer factory weight limit, or a standard 10K lb truck license?
 
(quoted from post at 11:05:40 03/23/10) I live in KY where you don't have to license a trailer if you have farm tags on the truck, much like all other states. Now, I have a KY trailer plate on my 25' gooseneck 14K trailer and farm tags on my F-250. If I were to go to IN, IL, or TN to a show that is more than my 150 mile legal range, what will DOT use as my weight restriction. The trailer plate doesn't have any weight limitations labeled on the plate. It just says trailer. I know on a regular truck plate, you can buy additional weight limit plates. How will they treat the KY farm plates. Will they go by the truck factory specifications, trailer factory weight limit, or a standard 10K lb truck license?
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In Tennessee, it's been my experience that they don't enforce any licensing requirements on trailers for personal use. I have 3/4 ton GMC truck with personal tags pulling bumper hitch, gooseneck and enclosed trailers to haul tractors to shows all over Tennessee, Alabama and Kentucky on a regular basis and I have never been questioned. Could they? Probably could. I went to a show last year in Alabama with my unstyled Model A and B on the gooseneck, ran across commercial scales on the way and the whole rig weighed 19,200 lbs.
Maybe I'm lucky but I have also occasionally been to Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Michigan, Arkansas and Louisiana to shows or pick up tractors and parts over the last 10 years without any problems. When I first started going to tractor shows I pulled into the Tennessee scales with my gooseneck rig and was told to not pull into the scales again and I haven't. I used to drive a truck for a living and I know they can find something wrong if they want to.
 
Are you the guy who brought the unstyled A & B to the Auburn KY show last year? I took my 47 slant dash JD A there also. I am going to haul the A and a 520 this year. I figure I will be overweight a little bit by the truck rating. I figure the A weighs about 4800 lbs, 520 weighs about the same, 14k trailer, and 4 door F-250 4x4. I figure I will be at about 22000 lbs total. I think the truck is rated somewhere between 18k and 20k. I need to check that. I only plan on taking one of them when I make the long out of state trips. Except Adams, TN. I will take the backroads.

I've been told as long as you are driving reasonable and have your tractors tied down correctly, they won't bother you unless they are just having a bad day.
 
(quoted from post at 12:08:52 03/23/10) Are you the guy who brought the unstyled A & B to the Auburn KY show last year? I took my 47 slant dash JD A there also. I am going to haul the A and a 520 this year. I figure I will be overweight a little bit by the truck rating. I figure the A weighs about 4800 lbs, 520 weighs about the same, 14k trailer, and 4 door F-250 4x4. I figure I will be at about 22000 lbs total. I think the truck is rated somewhere between 18k and 20k. I need to check that. I only plan on taking one of them when I make the long out of state trips. Except Adams, TN. I will take the backroads.

I've been told as long as you are driving reasonable and have your tractors tied down correctly, they won't bother you unless they are just having a bad day.
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Yes, I had my 34 A and 35 B at Auburn last year. I plan on being there this year as well, look me up. That is a nice little show and I always enjoy it.
I just looked up the trailer laws in Tennessee and I see that trailers for personal use are exempted from taxes (tags). http://www.state.tn.us/safety/CVE/trailerrequire.html
See you in Auburn!
GMCloadedforaShow-small.jpg
 
Here's my new tractor hauler. It came from your part of the woods. Whitehouse, TN. The guy worked at the feed mill in Portland.

IMG_1135.jpg
 
That's a nice looking truck! Portland is just up the road from me.
I see that you live near the Morgantown. They have a tractor show up there and I have heard it's a pretty good one. Do they have a lot of tractors and a good turn out? Might try to make it this year.
 
This is what I've found to be true in TN; not saying it's the law; just what's been enforced locally. Your truck must be tagged for the total weight of the whole rig; truck, trailer, whatever you're hauling. Have been stopped 3 times, 'though never weighed; first time, I was told by by a 'weigh'/DOT guy (I think they've since been put under the THP) that I needed a 'heavier' tag; no ticket, no official warning. Bought a class 3 tag (19,000 lb, I think) and have never been questioned again 'though I've been pulled over a couple of times and I knew I weighed more than that. He just walked around the truck both times and nodded his head for me go proceed.
 

It's a pretty nice show for only being a club for 4 years. I am a board of director in the club. Last year we had over 120 tractors, 10 model t type cars, 50 or so engines, and several lawn tractors. We would love to have you. I can always use more help supporting the big green and yellow. You can see photos of the show at www.butlercokyoldiron.com. There is also a tab for the flyer for this year's show. Featuring Farmall. We expect a rather large turnout if the weather is decent.
 
(quoted from post at 13:12:21 03/23/10)
It's a pretty nice show for only being a club for 4 years. I am a board of director in the club. Last year we had over 120 tractors, 10 model t type cars, 50 or so engines, and several lawn tractors. We would love to have you. I can always use more help supporting the big green and yellow. You can see photos of the show at www.butlercokyoldiron.com. There is also a tab for the flyer for this year's show. Featuring Farmall. We expect a rather large turnout if the weather is decent.
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That's a pretty good turn out for a "local" show. I have been to the website and looked at the pics. I'll put that on my "to do" list this year. That's the weekend after our local show so that should work out good. Maybe I can drag a couple of partners in crime with me.
 

There were 2 guys from your area that brought two pretty nice JD 520's last year. They claimed they had a really good time. I talked a long time with them. But, I don't remember what their names were.

Most of my weight questions are due to the fact I would like to hit shows in the Springfield, TN and Evansville, IN area this year. I am keeping the schedule open for the Portland show this year also. Previously, I hauled one tractor with a 1/2 ton truck that was really underpowered and struggled to go 55mph with the load. So, I was really restricted on how far from home I could travel. Any other good shows within the area?

I just get kinda nervous being on I-65 unless I know that I am covered with the DOT. I really don't want to have to take back roads.
 
The 150 mile rule usually applies to CDL exempt not to the truck plate.

Does Ky list a gross weight on the farm tag????? Most states do or at least the ones I know about.

The DOT will not allow you over anywhere. This could be your truck's tag limit; The GVWR or GCWR set by the manufacture.
Trailer tags usually do not have weight limits and the DOT will limit you here by the GVWR set by the manufacture.
 
In Missouri the license on the towing vehicle must be big enough to cover truck, trailer and cargo. All trailers towed by a licensed vehicle have to have a license. Trailer tags in Missouri are not expensive per year after you pay sales tax, and deed application on a newly purchased unit. You can also buy a life time tag for a certain trailer if you plan to keep it a long time, cost about $50.00 I think.
 
So, I have been doing a little research. Here is what I have found out.

In KY if I stay within the state I am fine just using farm plates (under 26000 lbs) within 100 (air) mile radius. If over 100 miles, a log book record has to be kept.

If I travel across state lines, even farm tag vehicles are required to have a US DOT # and a unified carrier registration. So watch out DScott.

Here is where I found the information

http://dmc.kytc.ky.gov/what/what.htm

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/cve/faq.htm

I am still searching for my original question. With KY farm plates what will the other states use as a legal weight basis? In KY, farm plates are good for 26,000#.
 
(quoted from post at 07:44:52 03/24/10) So, I have been doing a little research. Here is what I have found out.

In KY if I stay within the state I am fine just using farm plates (under 26000 lbs) within 100 (air) mile radius. If over 100 miles, a log book record has to be kept.

If I travel across state lines, even farm tag vehicles are required to have a US DOT # and a unified carrier registration. So watch out DScott.

Here is where I found the information

http://dmc.kytc.ky.gov/what/what.htm

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/cve/faq.htm

I am still searching for my original question. With KY farm plates what will the other states use as a legal weight basis? In KY, farm plates are good for 26,000#.
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Well, it sounds like you may be OK since the KY site says: "Intrastate farm plated vehicles with the gross vehicle weight rating or actual gross weight exceeding 26,000 lbs. will also need a US D.O.T. number." My truck has personal TN tags and with no weight rating soI'm not sure what they would use in my case. Sounds like the definition Ky uses for commercial would automatically include any one ton and up trucks. My 3/4 ton trucks gvwr is 9200 lbs so I'm sure a one ton is over that. It's hard to believe they enforce commercial rules on every 3/4 ton truck pulling a trailer in KY, but maybe they do.
I checked my manual last night and the gcwr on my truck is 22000 lbs so I'm OK there.
 
Correction: After reading the text again, If the vehicle GVWR is under 10,000 then a DOT # nor a UCR is required. So based upon DScotts weight of 9200#, mine should be close to the same. I was taking the GVWR as truck + trailer + cargo. Which it is not by their definition. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But, the definition of GVWR is the maximum allowable total mass of a road vehicle or [b:49f128d3f6]trailer[/b:49f128d3f6] when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.

So that would mean my 14K trailer exceeds the GVWR of 10K.

I called the KY motor carrier and they said that I would need a DOT # to go out of state because my trailer is rated over 10,000 lbs.
 
Looking at this page (link below) KY site some more I think the fact that you have Farm Plates put you in the category that requires a DOT number for interstate travel. The way I read it, personal tags would not require a DOT number but it specifically says Farm Plates do.
http://dmc.kytc.ky.gov/what/interstate.htm
 

That is the way I read it also. If you have personal tags, you should have a truck plate that shows your max weight restrictions. A standard personal tag is only for 10,000# or less at least in KY anyway. I think you have been lucky thus far since you are carrying around 20K with standard issue plates.
 
I thought I answered your question below but let me try again. I will repeat some #'s you have used but if I get them wrong replace with the correct #'s.

Your Farm tag is good for 26,000 lbs.
Your truck GVWR is 9200 lbs.
Your trailer GVWR is 14,000 lbs
Your GCWR is unknown to us.

Your tags are good to 26,000 lbs so you are good to that weight IF and only IF your truck GCWR is also 26,000 lbs or more. I drought it is though.
If your truck does not list a GCWR then you would add the GVWR from the truck and trailer to come up with a GCWR of 23,200 lbs.

This (23,200) is all they will allow you to weigh no matter what your tag says. Even if you are under the 23,200 lb # you will still be ticketed if you load enough weight on the trailer to exceed the 14,000 lbs including the trailer weight.

They will also insist that the load be spread over the unit to where you are not what they call over axle weight. This weight is dependant on your tire size and is usually figured at 650 lbs per inch width.

Once you get the weight right you have to deal with other things. Farm tags are considered commercial tags. No way around it.
<HINT> If you are going to a tractor show; is that farm related??????
Farm tags allow you to be exempt from several rules if you meet several situations. You stay in your state and within 100 to 150 miles of the farm. But going to this out of state show blows that. So now you fall in a different category. Since you will be under the magic # of 26,000 lbs things like CDL and IFTA still do not apply but DOT #'s; Log books ect do apply.
 
Farm tags are not commercial. You do not need a log bog or DOT #s. I have a truck and trailer with a weight of 30,000 lbs and at no time do I need a DOT sticker, cdl, or log book. The only thing I am required to have and they dont ever ask you about it is a federal medical card. If I am hauling my own products on my own truck and trailer I can go anywhere in the USA. A while back the local cops tried scaring everybody into getting DOT#s and for farmers its not needed.
 
QUOTE.............
Farm plated vehicles with the gross vehicle weight rating or actual gross weight of 10,001 lbs. or above operating interstate will need a US D.O.T. number.

Straight from The Division of Motor Carriers in Frankfort, KY.
Since the orginal poster is from Ky you would think this applies to him.

Do not believe me here is the link to the Ky site.
<a href="http://dmc.kytc.ky.gov/CMVCS/licenses_authorities.htm">KYTC</a>

So you can go "anywhere in the USA" with your 30,000 lb rig and do not need a CDL. LOL!!!!!!!!!
Here is the rule........

§383.3 Applicability. (a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.

(d) Exception for farmers,
(d)(1)(iv) Used within 241 kilometers (150 miles) of the farmer’s farm.

Do not believe me here is the link to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
site.

<a href="http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkkey=0901633480023861">USDOT</a>

So show me some links that prove your comments.

I will say it again. Farm tags are for a bussiness (a farm) Bussiness = Commercial
And they are regulated by federal DOT.
 
You dont need a CDL I know that for a fact. I am from Wisconsin and never had a problem. I have been pulled over in 6 other states in my years of hauling and never once did a state trooper or DOT ask for my CDL or DOT number.
 
I was pulled over last year in Kentucky by a state trooper and he never asked for my cdl or dot number, I asked him if I needed one and he said no. If Farm = Commercial then why are there seperate farm plates and commercial plates?
 
"If Farm = Commercial then why are there seperate farm plates and commercial plates?"

Because farm trucks have limited exemptions. Farm tags can not be used for commercial tags (hauling for hire) but a farm is still a bussiness.

"You dont need a CDL I know that for a fact"
"never once did a state trooper or DOT ask for my CDL"

I bought a bottle of beer yesterday and did not get asked for my ID so I guess that means I do not need one.

I showed you the links to the law spelled out in black and white for you to see. Stop telling me what you THINK you know or what you got away with and show me the LAW that proves your point.
 
"It isnt that way in wisconsin "

BULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is a link to the WISCONSIN COMMERCIAL DRIVERMANUAL.
Look at page 1:2 section 1.3 Wisconsin CDL and you will see............

A farmer, his family members, and/or his employees will not need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle owned or leased by the farmer, provided the vehicle is not used in for hire carriage, is transporting farm supplies, produce or machinery to or from the farm and is <font color=red>within 150 miles of the farm</font>. The farm supplies that a farmer may transport without obtaining a CDL may include hazardous materials. However, a farmer driving a commercial motor vehicle with double or triple trailers or designed to carry or actually carrying 16 or more passengers must have a CDL with proper endorsements.

You MUST stay within 150 miles of the farm to have the CDL exemption. There it is in black and white written in a Wisconsin book.
This is federal law and all states must comply.
WISCONSIN COMMERCIAL DRIVER fS MANUAL
 
Be careful of absolutes, John. You've shared a lot of good information her over time, and kudos for that, and most of the times we've differed have been about the absolutes you lay down. And there's no point in dredging through the distinction between private sales and commercial transactions again, especially in this thread. There are laws quite aside from the motor vehicle laws that apply to the words used as used in the MV laws and regs.

Back to the danger of absolutes . . .

"Because farm trucks have limited exemptions. Farm tags can not be used for commercial tags (hauling for hire) but a farm is still a bussiness."

What about subsistence farmers? They don't sell a thing in the way of produce, but may still have the need to haul grain for grinding or mixing into feed for the animals they raise.
 
Yes but in wisconsin a farm plate is not a commercial plate. I can go to any farm sale even over 150 miles away and be fine. Just because it is printed does not mean it is enforced.
It seems like every time I go to a farm sale outside of my state I get pulled over with my truck and trailer, usually for speeding or maybe a light out. I have asked every state trooper everytime it happens and they say if i have farm plates I am good to go. It may be a written rule but not an enforced one. I drive 60 mph on a road posted at 55 mph and guess how many times I have been pulled over.0. There are tons of laws printed in the rule book that are never enforced.
The rule you just stated is for a semi tractor and trailer not a pickup truck and trailer. Like I said and I will repeat it if you are hard of hearing. They dont enforce the rules at all for farm pickup trucks in wisconsin
Farm pickup trucks are not commerical they are farm. My neighbors 4 semis have farm plates on them not commercial. They do by law have a not for hire sticker on the truck
 
I THINK you are trying to ask.......
If a subsistence farmer; person who is really not in the bussiness of farming; but rather someone that grows all their own food; has a truck with a farm tag he is really not commercial because he is not in a for profit bussiness.

We could also add the hobby horse farm that has two horses for pleasure riding only getting farm tags on their truck.

I feel that is a loop hole in the law because farm tags were made for farms. People in the bussiness of farming for profit.

The DOT officer may feel the same way.

How is a subsistence farmer suppose to prove he is not a for profit farmer when he has those types of tags on his truck when he is say 2 states from home.
 
Heck, I know a guy that lives in a subdivision, has never even had a garden, that somehow BS'ed his way to getting farm tags on his F-250.. Brags how much money it saves him.. Same guy is always trying some type of scam...
 
Ky farm tags are good for 38000 and no mileage restriction. I just ask all those questions of my co. clerk. I also tagged my trailer because I go to other states and don't know if they know that Ky doesn't require trailer plates.
 

On the trailer plates, I went ahead and licensed my gooseneck trailer just in case I wanted to go beyond state lines with it. However, I also have an 18' equipment trailer and don't have tags on it. They tried at the clerk's office, but I fought them off. They are getting really hard to convince, since so many lawn care businesses try to get out of paying for a plate. Cops in my area have really cracked down on them, pulling them over left and right.

As far as getting farm plates, I just told the clerk I wanted farm plates. They didn't question it. Although, when you sign your name, you are agreeing you have a farm and using it for farm purposes only. As we know, most people don't really follow that rule to a tee. I am legit as a farm owner, but will use the vehicle for personal stuff also.

I wonder how a DOT or state trooper would treat my farm plates if I get pulled over within the state with an antique tractor on the trailer? Technically, I am not using the vehicle for farm use, but rather transporting a hobby. It would be really no different than hauling my personal automobile on a trailer. Most of them probably wouldn't say a word, but they could throw the book at me if they wanted to saying I am suppose to have a standard issue tag that is rated for the weight I can haul. Guess I am walking a fine line there.
 
I am basically in the same situation as you. We have 4 antique tractors we pull. I have 2 trucks and 2 trailers. One of the trucks is a F-800 Ford pulling a 25 foot gooseneck. Permanent tags on trailer and Farm tags on truck. Truck is licensed for 30,000#. I have a CDL exemption for my state and I am legal to haul farm machinery to or from a farm, I have never been stopped and I have been in a neighboring state several times.Maybe just lucky. If I do get stopped,I am going to have my day in court to find out once and for all.
 
Since when can't a farmer have a hobby. A few years ago the neighbor was going on vacation and was going to use his pickup with farm plates on to pull a camper, he asked the D.O.T. trooper if he could use his farm truck and the trooper said that as long as it was used mainly for farm use he could. The trooper said that their was no law that a farmer could not have a hobby or go on vacation. As far as the weight that you can haul, if you have two 5000 lbs axels on the trailer the load and the weight of the trailer had better no go over 10,000 lbs. and also you had better have a truck that is rated to haul that much. This is in Wisconsin,and I haven't checked to see if their are any new changes to the law
 
Yeah, farm plates get abused. There are a lot fewer of them nowadays, but the typical family farm of the mid-20th century was not a for-profit business. They grew most of what they ate. They sold their produce and livestock to pay for the things that they could not make for themselves, fuel, power, cloth from which to make clothing. The sale of their produce was (here comes that term again) a PRIVATE transaction, not commercial. Sale of the grain they did not keep for food or livestock feed, even if to a corporate giant was (and, for the few of them left, is) not a commercial transaction,anymore than my buying fuel from my truck for an Exxon franchise.
 
You need to call the states that you are going to hall your tractor in. All states are different. I'm from Maryland and Pa and Md work together with the rules. I know that my freinds go accross lines with farm truck tags but they own farms in Md and Pa. As far as going over 150 miles with farm tags you need to ask the states your going into to be safe. I have a dually that has a GVWR of 13000 and a goose neck trailer with a GVWR of 21000. I was told by the DOT in MD to combination it at 34000. If I go far out of state I keep it 26000 just to be safe. I have no GCWR on my door. Both Pa and Md DOT told me any trailer over 10000 lbs the truck has to have a GCWR. As for the DOT on farm tags. You can haul from feild to farm without DOT. When you haul grain or hay to an auction house or commerical grain bins then you need a DOT #. That's where you get into trouble.
You only need a DOT # when you are making money with the vehicle. If you tractor pull and win prize money then you are suppose to have a DOT #. I don't know how they would know but that's the way it works.
 
Not sure about the pickup thing. Living here on the Tn/Ky border have never seen a problem with pickups bringing over a horse trailer or small flat bed. But I can tell you if you have a 18 wheeler with KY farm plates You will be ticked for not having a USDOT # even if ithin 150 miles of home base. Been tried in courts and fines stoo up. Have a big farmer at Cadiz KY that farms part of Federal land here one county into Tn..No problem with ky farm plates but he had to get usdot #
 
Ihave a friend in ky that is a farmer and logger he has ky farm tags on his truck and farm name and not for hire on there no trouble for him
 
You might want to check the US regs on your tie downs on the trailer. There are weight classes for tie down methods. I would think your tractors are heavy enough to need 4 point tie downs. That is 4 point of tie down on the tractor. Nice looking load!
 
I checked the regs. a while back Dick. Technically, I can pass with only the 2 tie downs for each, but I agree with you about using 4. I now use 4 tie downs on each just for piece of mind. Everybody rags me about how extra safe I am, but I will be the one who has the last laugh. Tie downs are the #1 thing the DOT here looks at. Typically, if you are tied good and all the lights work, they leave you alone. Assuming you are not flying down the road at mach 1.
 
(quoted from post at 20:32:26 03/25/10) Yes but in wisconsin a farm plate is not a commercial plate. I can go to any farm sale even over 150 miles away and be fine. Just because it is printed does not mean it is enforced.
It seems like every time I go to a farm sale outside of my state I get pulled over with my truck and trailer, usually for speeding or maybe a light out. I have asked every state trooper everytime it happens and they say if i have farm plates I am good to go. It may be a written rule but not an enforced one. I drive 60 mph on a road posted at 55 mph and guess how many times I have been pulled over.0. There are tons of laws printed in the rule book that are never enforced.
The rule you just stated is for a semi tractor and trailer not a pickup truck and trailer. Like I said and I will repeat it if you are hard of hearing. They dont enforce the rules at all for farm pickup trucks in wisconsin
Farm pickup trucks are not commerical they are farm. My neighbors 4 semis have farm plates on them not commercial. They do by law have a not for hire sticker on the truck
Click to expand...

Stuart,

I am from Eau Claire, WI. And I spent 3 trips to the local highway patrol office and probably 20 hours on the internet researching this whole deal of CDL's, commercial vs personal vs farm, USDOT #'s, etc etc etc. I'm not a professional expert, but certainly knowledgeable on this particular topic.

1) Farm is commercial. There is a loophole written into the statues that specifically allows farm plated truck drivers to drive without a CDL.

2) In WI, ALL commercial trucks are required to have a USDOT number, the yearly safety inspections, log books, med cards, flares and the whole 9 yards just like a long haul trucker. Again, there is a loophole written into the statutes that farm plated trucks don't need to have that as long as they are below the magic weight numbers; 26,000 pound combined if the trailer is 10,001 or more, 36,000 if the trailer is 10,000 or less and the truck is 26,000 or less and final 26,000 or less when there is no trailer.

3) if you cross state lines, then you are into federal enforcement. FEDERAL law states that any commercial vehicle having a total actual weight of 10,001 or more (truck+ trailer+ all load) must have a USDOT number. You can look that up yourself.


I got this from the DMV. The Highway patrol was enforcing it around here too. My inquiries on this stopped it as we (the highway patrol people and me) were able to show the actual statutes that allow farm tags to not require it.

CIMG3130.jpg
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