Age old question

It shows up on here from time as to what a "fair price" or "going rate" for hauling should be.
This is mostly dependent on which side of the transaction you are on. The hauler would obviously like to get as much as possible, the person getting the haul would obviously like to get it done for the least amount possible.
The way I approach it is this. If the hauler is totally legal with full insurance, CDL, DOT docs, IFTA sticker, etc., and I choose to use them, they already typically have a "rate" and that is what I would pay.
I have the assurance that if they get in an accident, I am protected.
However, for all of the "wanna be's" and the ones trying to snake a dollar under the table, I look at this way. They are usually back hauling or looking to fill up their load. I am not going to pay them the "going rate" for several reasons.
1. What does it cost them if they do not get my partion on the load?.
2. They are typically not insured or under insured. Should something go wrong, I stand to either lose my tractor, or take a beating on the value. I could also end up in court trying recover my losses which adds to my cost.
3. They should not expect me to pay a rate that they themselves would not pay if they had something hauled.
4. They typically want cash and are not paying taxes on the money like a legal hauler has to do.
So, it is common sense that their actual cost are much lower than someone in the business doing it legally. Therefore, why would anyone pay them close to the "going rate" when there is so more risk and their operating cost are much lower?
Maybe someone that has more money than good sense, but not me.

i agree, also would add "going rate" has different meaning depending on the rig, some guy running around with a light duty 1 ton and trailer should not expect to be paid the same rate as the commercial trucker, commercial trucker meaning a over the road semi that works for a living, the light duty truck has nowhere near the overhead and operating expenses of the larger truck only other thing on your commercial plats is a truck can haul without IFTA or FR plates, if he is WD plated and the pickup point and destination is in the same state,[ usualy only feasable in the larger western states], all other insurance and dot, number, motor carrier permit number if required ect applies, on the other hand if a tractor owner is too cheap, the tractor may have a hard time getting anywhere lol

I'm not sure what the trucker's costs have to do with anything. Do you care about the seed company's costs of production? No, you are buying seed. Do you care about the fertilizer dealer's cost of doing business. No, you care about the fertilizer. Why would hauling be any different? I don't care what they haul it in here on. It could be a mule team. I just want it here.

Doug, I can say that I see your point, but let me take your examples and use different items.
If you wanted me to fly you from point A to point B in a single engine airplane, would you want me to charge you based on it being a single engine airplane or charge you what a commercial airline flying the same distance would charge?
To me, it makes a huge difference.
As for the seed and fertilizer, if it is apples to apples, I would agree. But hauling is much more than just "getting it there". It is what can happen along the way that can negatively impact you, your tractor, and wallet that makes the difference.
So you would pay me as much as a legal big rig to haul your tractor on my gooseneck trailer and pickup truck? WOW, when do I start?

I operate a 48 state DOT,IFTA,MC legal tractor and 53' dry van. With $1 million insurance coverage to protect your cargo if I screw up. Fuel averages around 2.85/gallon divide that by the 5 mpg my 05 Peterbilt averages and my fuel cost is .57 cents per mile. every mile loaded or not. As a driver I get .45 cents per mile. The truck expenses, wires,tires,taxes,permits,maintainence etc run another 50-60 cents per mile depending on repairs. The company deserves to make a profit and if we operate efficiently thats another 15-20 cents per mile. The math works out to around $1.75 per mile. again loaded or not. I have charged $1.75 per mile if I had an efficient route and was lucky enough to have loads back to back. If when planning the route and I can't find a back haul, dead heading,I have charged as high as $3.00 per loaded mile. For that I get to live in a truck, use truck stop showers,food, and bathrooms. Woohoo! I have invested $100,000.00 in this rig and maintain it properly so I can do what I said I will do. Deliver your goods in good shape and on time. Any company/individual who charges less than that is cutting corners and buyer should beware.

730, good discussion. So when you get things hauled, who do you choose and what do you normally pay (per mile)?

I look at it simply like this if you want to always complain some one is charge to much or to long getting you tractor hauled, then haul it yourself. Don't have trailer you say well buy you one and go get it. maybe the $2.50-$3.50 a loaded mile wasn't as out of line as you thought???? just my thoughts

Dean Olson tells it like it is, and smallbaleboy has it pretty much figured out also. My one ton truck pretty much just stays in the garage and my gooseneck trailer is currently buried under a snowdrift and since no one wants to pay enough to meet the actual expenses of putting the truck and trailer on the road, both will just stay right where they are.

jd b puller,

Thank you, I was curious to hear the various angles on this topic.
What I have paid has been different every time. Over the past 8 years it has ranged from $.70/mile to $1.75/mile. However, I do not always base the decision on the lowest price.
Let's say I wanted a tractor moved about 100 miles. Let's assume only two contenders: one is a CDL semi with $1MM plus insurance, loads of experience, etc. The other is a guy, like many, that happens to have a truck and a trailer that will physically carry the tractor, albeit, may or may not be legal in one of more facets. This one also typically only carries enough insurance for himself, does not pay the extra cost that legal semis pay, etc.
Whatever the rate comes to, why would I pay the smaller, lower overhead hauler the same or close to the same as I would the semi?
I had a similar situation not long ago and a legal semi was actually lower than some guy trying to make some cash under the table. Go figure. I tried to get it through his head that his price was high, but he got mad. Oh well. If you can't play ball, stay in the stands, right? LOL
As for me going out and buying a truck and trailer, it makes no difference. I may still have a situation, let's say a tractor 1,000 miles away, that I would rather pay to have hauled than to drive 2,000 miles. I may not have the time to do the trip.
In this case, I would still not pay the smaller truck as much.
And to be fair, when I did go buy the truck and trailer, I would not ask anyone to pay me what a big semi charges.
For starters, I would have only 14 tires that could blow, and they are cheaper than semi tires for sure.As far this crazy attitude about "you have a rig and I don't so I have pay your price", it does not work. Reason? You are far from the only one with a rig.

smallbaleboy, don't know about you but I don't own a butcher shop, an airline, an ice cream shop, or a gas station, etc. But I have the right to shop for lower prices. I also have the right to give them a chance to be more competitive if their prices are high.
The bottom line is anyone running legal carrying the insurance has the right to charge the "going rate". However if it is someone that is just trying to make a fast buck on our backs, not going to happen.
If I wanted to haul for a living, I would buy a truck and trailer.
I like to travel too but I do not think I will be buying a commercial jet anytime soon.

730 I have a truck and trailer that I haul my own tractors and things on. I have been asked several times to haul for other people and I do not want to haul and they will not take no for a answer so I just jack the price up higher then the big boys charge. They tell me I am too high I just tell them to have the other guy do it. If they say that they still want me to haul it I have them sign a bill of sale over to me and then I haul it for them. It has not happened yet so I am HAPPY.

Yeah, but he is not chasing people asking them to haul stuff for him. THEY are chasing HIM.

If they don't want to haul it, then why are they wasting their time hunting him down and giving him quotes? Why are they offering their services for hire?

The truth is they're looking for some sucker to pay the going rate for their cut-rate operation.

Why does this kind of subject always turn into a page(s) long discussion? Different equipment will have different operating costs. Size, dimensions, weight, distance of haul, will all be a factor in the final cost. If you get a quote from someone and don't like, try to negotiate a price. If that doesn't work, move on and find someone else. There seems to be plenty of trucks sitting around.

Not because I started the discussion but I think we got some good replies.
There are many angles to this whole equation. One is that the lower cost dually with a gooseneck at times wants to charge what a higher cost semi with $1MM plus insurance charges. I don't have a problem with what they want to charge, I have a problem that they get mad and "think" that they should charge the same because they are "moving the tractor the same distance."

That example with the 53 foot van assumes that the payer has the FULL load, not just sharing a portion of it. So if I'm paying a big rig I need to waut till I can fill the trailer with tractors: then it will pencil out well (for me).

(quoted from post at 06:17:44 03/03/10) Not because I started the discussion but I think we got some good replies.
There are many angles to this whole equation. One is that the lower cost dually with a gooseneck at times wants to charge what a higher cost semi with $1MM plus insurance charges. I don't have a problem with what they want to charge, I have a problem that they get mad and "think" that they should charge the same because they are "moving the tractor the same distance."

Click to expand...

If you are using a one ton dually to haul for hire, and doing it legally, you ARE required to have that same one million dollar liability insurance, and you are required to have the same d.o.t. permits for each state you will be operating in. A one ton dually with a gooseneck trailer will not generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the insurance and permits, so that is why my truck and trailer stay parked until I need them for my own personal use.

I agree. That's where you and I would have to negotiate. I would have to find another partial load. That brings up a whole other issue, example:
You contract with me to haul your furniture, discounted for partial load. Because I have room I contract with another client to haul his "restoration project" you know the one that's dripping oil, covered in grease. What do you suppose your furniture will smell like after being in that close enviroment?

The point is trying to get compatible partial loads when I need them rarely happens.

Full or empty it still costs me about $1.75 to operate. I still have to figure out a back haul. To complicate matters, a big majority of the brokers who I rely on for back hauls and loads in general want the truck dedicated to them, compatibility issue, irregardless of how much space they use. The general public who uses my services once in their lifetime are never happy with the rate. I have quit soliciting that business. It's not worth the hassle.

An earlier poster's opinion was that he didn't care about all that. I agree with him for the most part. My challenges with my business are not his/your problem.

My decision making process is simple: It either makes financial sense or it doesn't. I don't have to haul your load.

As this post started, many of the gooseneck haulers are NOT legal in one or more ways.
But, they like to compare their rates to a fully legal semi.
To top it off, many times they will only accept cash so that there is no accounting trail for income tax purposes, and they want the bill of sale in their name so that it will "appear" that they are hauling their own stuff.
If I am going to pay cash, sign over the bill of sale, and risk them having limited insurance, I will expect a much lower rate.

(quoted from post at 15:59:28 03/03/10) As this post started, many of the gooseneck haulers are NOT legal in one or more ways.
But, they like to compare their rates to a fully legal semi.
To top it off, many times they will only accept cash so that there is no accounting trail for income tax purposes, and they want the bill of sale in their name so that it will "appear" that they are hauling their own stuff.
If I am going to pay cash, sign over the bill of sale, and risk them having limited insurance, I will expect a much lower rate.

Click to expand...

And the other side of this story is, If that old tractor or whatever is all that valuable (not saying it isn't), and you expect a timely delivery and all that stuff, then why would you, or anyone else, even consider hiring some one who isn't running a legal operation?

Mister T wrote: "And the other side of this story is, If that old tractor or whatever is all that valuable (not saying it isn't), and you expect a timely delivery and all that stuff, then why would you, or anyone else, even consider hiring some one who isn't running a legal operation?"

That is exactly my point, you do not know all of the parameters until you talk to them about their "offer" to haul and get in to the details.
I should not have implied stereotyping the "gooseneck" driver, as there are some out there that run legal all the way. I have just found that some are not, and they get upset if you want to know about CDL, DOT regs, insurance, and those "small" details.

(quoted from post at 18:44:20 03/03/10) Mister T wrote: "And the other side of this story is, If that old tractor or whatever is all that valuable (not saying it isn't), and you expect a timely delivery and all that stuff, then why would you, or anyone else, even consider hiring some one who isn't running a legal operation?"

That is exactly my point, you do not know all of the parameters until you talk to them about their "offer" to haul and get in to the details.
I should not have implied stereotyping the "gooseneck" driver, as there are some out there that run legal all the way. I have just found that some are not, and they get upset if you want to know about CDL, DOT regs, insurance, and those "small" details.

Click to expand...

Exactly!!

1. It is not really cheaper to run a decent pickup and trailer up the road than it is a decent semi. Fuel mileage isn't a lot better, wear and tear is about even in my book, cause semis (and semi tires) are more expensive, but are made to run lot more miles without repair or replacement. If pickup and trailers were cheaper to haul frieght, you would see a lot more of them. Drivers cost the same.

2. I hope 2 things everyone should do before hauling or having something hauled. Firm rate and firm time frame.

3. You can use a per mile basis to get the rate, but mileage can vary, especially with a dishonest driver. If mapquest says 500 miles for the trip and a $2.00 a mile rate sounds right, I line it up for $1000 to move the item, period. And that needs to be clear with both parties involved before a wheel turns.

4. Payment method needs to be clear. You can b*tch about cash, but if the price is firm, there can be a money order or cashiers check as well. Don't blame someone for wanting cash, I wouldn't take your check. Will you take mine?

5. I would never make an incorrect bill of sale. That could go wrong in so many ways.

6. Never use 'cost of production' figures trying to argue a lower rate. It is ignorant and has nothing to do with what someone should charge.

7. If you don't agree with someone not having insurance, don't hire them. Beating them up on the price and winning just keeps the game alive. If someone has a 'low ball' questionable setup. Don't use them. Hiring them to save yourself some money makes you just as much a problem

There is more, but I don't feel like rambling

lol first production cost is a big factor, in the trucking business, you must recoupe the replacement cost of the vehicle as part of the rate, since trailers are a whole different mater, lets look at "tractors" a new diesel 1 ton, somewhere around 50 to 60 grand depending on options, a new class 8 road tractor 130 grand and up depending on options, yes the big truck will run more miles IF maintained properly and operated by a qualified driver, meaning a experienced driver not a kid fresh out of a cdl mill. fuel milage; since when is a 1 ton getting 17 to 20mpg not much better than a peterbilt getting 5? mapquest cannot be used when determining trip milage for a truck, due to the fact that it is designed for cars, it doesnt take into account areas off limits to truck traffic and low overhead clearence like old railroad bridges typicly found in the eastern US ie, us 30 in illinois, when on a busy 2 lane curvy hiway you come upon a railroad bridge with 12 foot clearance and you have a 13'6 trailer you do have a serious problem, so routes for trucks must be planed to avoid these types of things, which means longer miles, what it realy all boils down to is how much do you want to risk, the private 1 ton is cheaper but can the owner drive and keep the thing on its wheels with your tractor on it, if something happens is he insured, depens on the tractor too, if you are hauling a old 8n or farmall H put it on the ton and gooseneck, odds are it will get there fine, on the other hand if you just sprung for a fully restored mm udlx, or something JD made 5 of, give me the pro and big rig any day