Gas or Diesel Tractor hauler

VicS

Well-known Member
Location
SE Il.
I have said this somewhere before. But here goes. Was at Tunica Ms. Tractor pull. A good friend and I was leaving to come home to Southern Il. He has a 2011 F250 4x4 crewcab 6.7 Diesel. I have a 2016 F250 4x4 crewcab 6.2 Gas. His rig probably weighed 2500 lb.more Than mine. My trailer is 14000 gvw. His is 20000 gvw.we both filled up at same station. Stopped at Boomland in Mo. To fuel up. My truck held 23.? Gal. Cost $53.??. His truck held 19.? GAL. COST $53.??. Think he got 11.? Mpg and I got 9.? Mpg. We drove 70 to 75. Not much difference accelerating from 0 to get 75. But mine shifted a lot more. You have to keep your foot in it. A Diesel was $8000 more when I was looking. But they are worth more to trade.
 
But I have other considerations. I am looking into the future. What I see on the political and economic horizon is not good. I have owned both gas and diesel trucks. The only other fuel you can get by with for a gas burner is naptha type paint thinner. But for my diesels I can burn any type of combustible oil: used motor oil, used ATF, transformer oil, peanut oil, safflower oil, canola oil, soybean oil, etc. I ran my Cummins Dodge for 6 months on nothing but used ATF. At present I dump 3 gallons of filtered used motor oil into every diesel fill-up. Improves fuel mileage, gives more power, makes my engines run quieter, lubricates the pump, and provides over 60 miles of free driving per tankful. The other day I was in a salvage grocery store. I found two 5 gallon containers of new peanut oil at $9 each. That's a steal. I bought both. The proprietor asked me what in the world I was going to do with all that peanut oil. I said I was going to burn it in my tractors and trucks. I put 5 gal. into my Case 995 and 5 gal. into my Dodge truck. Smells so good running down the road or plowing. Plus, there is the evaporation and long term non-use factors. I went with a friend to look at a "91 Cummins Dodge that had been in the woods for years. There was still fuel in the tank. Didn't smell so good, but the motor cranked right away when we put a hot battery on it, and purred like a kitten. A gas burner would have required probably $500-$1000 worth of tune up work, and probably cleaning out the fuel tank. I once bought a MF Perkins 135 that had been parked in the woods for 5 years. Still had fuel in the tank. Put a hot battery on it, cranked it right up and drove it. A gas burner would have required expensive and time consuming work to get it running. So, you can limit your considerations to MPG and initial cost if you want to, but for me, there are far more important factors to consider.
 
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I have both, and I would not buy a newer diesel. They are too complicated. I have a 2002 Ford F250 and a 2003 Dodge 3500 dually. I just
drove a 2000 mile trip this week to Texas and back, pulling a 32 ft. trailer. I got 10 mpg empty and about 8 loaded. I have a Freightliner
with a Detroit diesel and it gets about 7 hauling 3 times as much weight. I had a Ford F350 with a V10 and it was about 2 mpg less than
the diesels. You can buy the gas trucks a lot cheaper.
 
Yup, my experience is 1 mpg less with a V10 Ford than the 6.0 I had before. Same trailer and load. The diesel would get much better mileage when using it as a car.

Can buy a reman long block for the v10 for less than a fuel system repair on a diesel.
 
Just a word to the wise,the fine(if you get inspected)for atf/used oil in the tank is the same as red diesel in the tank.(They do not test for color) A friend of mine was buying used trucks that would pump a gal of motor oil into the fuel tank, and then pump a gal of new oil into the oil pan. One of his trucks had the tanks dipped in Ia and the last time I talked to him the fine was $10,000.00. He was fighting the fine but he probably will pay $9.000.00 in fees to get it throne out of court.
 
I have an 05 F350 with v-10 and it pulls very well. You have to get used to more shifting and higher rpms, but that is where gas engines are designed to run. I made this run from Mn. to Wy. last year and got just under 8mpg round trip. The rest of the time doing the short trips I do I get 11-12mpg. I only put on 5-7000 miles a Year so I can't justify a diesel for that.
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(quoted from post at 15:47:09 12/23/17) But I have other considerations. I am looking into the future. What I see on the political and economic horizon is not good. I have owned both gas and diesel trucks. The only other fuel you can get by with for a gas burner is naptha type paint thinner. But for my diesels I can burn any type of combustible oil: used motor oil, used ATF, transformer oil, peanut oil, safflower oil, canola oil, soybean oil, etc. I ran my Cummins Dodge for 6 months on nothing but used ATF. At present I dump 3 gallons of filtered used motor oil into every diesel fill-up. Improves fuel mileage, gives more power, makes my engines run quieter, lubricates the pump, and provides over 60 miles of free driving per tankful. The other day I was in a salvage grocery store. I found two 5 gallon containers of new peanut oil at $9 each. That's a steal. I bought both. The proprietor asked me what in the world I was going to do with all that peanut oil. I said I was going to burn it in my tractors and trucks. I put 5 gal. into my Case 995 and 5 gal. into my Dodge truck. Smells so good running down the road or plowing. Plus, there is the evaporation and long term non-use factors. I went with a friend to look at a "91 Cummins Dodge that had been in the woods for years. There was still fuel in the tank. Didn't smell so good, but the motor cranked right away when we put a hot battery on it, and purred like a kitten. A gas burner would have required probably $500-$1000 worth of tune up work, and probably cleaning out the fuel tank. I once bought a MF Perkins 135 that had been parked in the woods for 5 years. Still had fuel in the tank. Put a hot battery on it, cranked it right up and drove it. A gas burner would have required expensive and time consuming work to get it running. So, you can limit your considerations to MPG and initial cost if you want to, but for me, there are far more important factors to consider.

Lol!! My heavy hauler is a gas burner Chevy Kodiac GVWR 31,000 pounds truck. It pulls a tandem dual equipment trailer. It can and does sit for months at a time sometimes, and always starts instantly. The engine oil stays bright and clean from one oil change to the next. It was purchased new by a fuel delivery company and run for 200,000 miles. Then I got it and have put another 30,000 on it so far using it for personal use.

230,000+ miles and it runs like new yet. Uses no engine oil between changes.

It runs on propane, and has since it was brand new. The only downside is the limited availability of fueling stations. Finding them is more difficult than finding gasoline of diesel fuel, but not impossible. If this country was serious about alternative fuel sources, propane pumps would be installed at all truck stops and many gas stations. It would be relatively easy and inexpensive to do. Having been a fuel transport truck driver for 20 years, I'm very familiar with the infrastructure and have hauled and delivered millions of gallons of gasoline, diesel, and propane. Adding propane storage tanks and pumps to existing fuel stations wouldn't be a big deal at all. The supply infrastructure has been in existence for a long time. This country has so much propane that much of it is shipped overseas now.
 
I have a '12 GMC with the 6.0 gas. At the time i was shopping around for a truck i was going to buy the duramax until i started doing some research. For what i was going to do with it and the amount of time i would actually be hooked to a trailer, i bought the gas truck instead. I couldnt be more satisfied with this truck. It gets 17 to 19 mpg empty all day long and 9 to 10 pulling 10,000 lbs around in the summer going to pulls.
 
For me a diesel engine is made for one thing.
Pulling heavy loads for long distances 100% of the time.
While a diesel has its place in the 1 ton class they are far and few between.
The 2 ton class and above we can start talking diesel.

A diesel in a family owned pickup is just someone compensating for other short comings.
 
Walter,
I for one think the economy is on the up and up. Though who knows things will continue that way or not... What you are talking about with burning used motor oil, peanut oils, ATF, etc in a diesel is a thing of the past. If I remember correctly, you have a 12 valve cummins. Well, you wouldn't want to burn that stuff in a newer high pressure common rail.

Anyways, for trailers under 15,000 lbs that are hauled a hand full of times per year, gas trucks are the way to go.
What they lack in torque compared to a diesel, they make up for with RPMS. You can rev a GM 6.0 to the sky to haul the steeper grades while in a lower gear. The result is generally being able to keep up.
If you wanted to haul a dually tandem 20k trailer, then I think you may be a bit outside gas truck territory unless its all flat traveling.
I doubt that I will own another diesel pickup. Its just not feasible for the 9-5 guy that plays with tractors on the weekend, and really not needed for most farmers either.

When I went looking for a new to me truck, I wanted one that would haul the loads, and be a feasible truck for my hunting needs.

Now if money isn't a concern, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. We don't drive our gasser HD trucks for the cool factor or manhood enlargement, we choose them because the cost of ownership is a lot less.
 
In years past: I have hauled some rather large loads with a 1 ton Ford ( Not a "dually ") with a 460 v8 and manual transmission. In 2003 I bought a super duty dually diesel (7.3) and have never regretted it. I have put 104,000 miles on it in the 14 years I have owned it. Having said that: I recently bought a super duty F250. It is a 6.2 gas. Saw no need for another diesel. Especially with all the air pollution garbage that is on them now. Pulling my 14k gvwr tongue hitch trailer hauling a 5000lb pulling tractor: gas will run 7 or 8 mpg. Diesel 9 to11. I do not have a gooseneck hitch in the gas. I figure if I need to hook to the 20k gvwr gooseneck I need the diesel.
 
I had a 5.4 gas f250 before. It pulled the same load but struggled on long grades. The 6.2 has over 100 hp. More. Plus 2 gears more in the transmission. No comparison.
 
I get 13 mpg running 25000 gvw on the freeway at 75 mph my truck has 264000 miles on it my cousin had the 6.0 gas Chevy he got 7 pulling stock trailers. And about 10 to 12 with an empty truck . That weighed 8000 pounds my truck empty gets 17 to 17.5 mpg but I know how and do all the maintenance work myself that?s where the true expense comes in owning a diesel 150$ to 200$ for an oil change with the cheap oil 75 or 100$ to do a fuel filter I can do a oil change for under 100$ using full synthetic oil and the best filter fuel filters cost 15 to 25$ depending on if you ketch the filter sale or not . Then If you take an actual problem to the shop it gets real expensive real quick and for that reason I?d say get a gas unless your equipped and have the knowledge to do the repairs on a diesel yourself
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:16 12/27/17) I get 13 mpg running 25000 gvw on the freeway at 75 mph my truck has 264000 miles on it my cousin had the 6.0 gas Chevy he got 7 pulling stock trailers. And about 10 to 12 with an empty truck . That weighed 8000 pounds my truck empty gets 17 to 17.5 mpg but I know how and do all the maintenance work myself that?s where the true expense comes in owning a diesel 150$ to 200$ for an oil change with the cheap oil 75 or 100$ to do a fuel filter I can do a oil change for under 100$ using full synthetic oil and the best filter fuel filters cost 15 to 25$ depending on if you ketch the filter sale or not . Then If you take an actual problem to the shop it gets real expensive real quick and for that reason I?d say get a gas unless your equipped and have the knowledge to do the repairs on a diesel yourself

Agreed but the other part of the higher expense is purchasing it to begin with. A good condition 12 valve cummins in a 4wd truck with 250,000 miles is still going for stupid high prices.
I am thinking the original poster is aiming for something new. Its not hard to spend $70,000 on a new diesel truck these days.
Its sad what politics have done to the diesel engine.
 
(quoted from post at 03:15:19 12/27/17) 24,200 Gross. 1,000 mile haul from MT. to MN. 8-9 MPG. 8.1L gasser.


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Ah the good ol 8.1L. I've personally never owned one but I wanted one when I searched out for a truck. Ended up with a 6.0.
I think the biggest reason they did away with it was emissions.
 
Paid 5600$ for my 12 valve bank high books it a
over 9 . I wouldn?t own a new tier 4 diesel without
the emissions taken off it I?ve seen lots and lots of
money spent on emissions on pickup trucks and big
trucks as well
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I have had 2 work supplied F350's and my personal 2015 F250 with the 6.2, with the 4.30 rear axle it's a real nice towing set up. The 3.73 is just O.K. but for every day all day the 6.2 with 4.30 is a great towing machine. I drove each one from brand new and never a wrench on either one so far.
 
I don't know about that. I've got a 03 chevy crew cab shortbed 4x4 duramax Allison. I know diesels cost more than gas and maintenance/repair is higher but just don't know about the gas hauling. As far as hauling a few cattle at a time no problem. My flatbed gooseneck is 20+5 20k Gvw, I haul hay for the cattle, 15-20 4x5 bales at a time and tractors on occasion. The pulling tractor is a jd 4430 that weighs 10,000 pounds. If gm made a engine bigger than the 6.0 gas I may consider it, but until then on these hills a diesel is needed for the torque. Fuel mileage loaded doesn't matter much and empty I'm doing better than a gas but gas truck and fuel is cheaper so it may be a wash.
 
This evening at our local truck stop diesel is 86 cents a gallon higher than gas,$2.91 to $2.05
a gallon...A couple of years ago when I bought my 460 powered 1997 F-350 dually with 123,000
miles a comparable diesel was $5000-8000 higher..I only tow about 4000-5000 miles per year in
level country so I'll stay with my 460 at 6-7 MPG loaded..I have no expensive turbo,pump,injectors,
glow plugs,fuel filter,2 batteries,etc to mess with..Some of my friends that used to run diesels are
switching to gas powered trucks...
 
I have a '99 F350 DRW V10, with a 4:30 gear it has preformed flawlessly for 103K miles. It's blown one sparkplug in those 18 years. I get about 8.5mpg here in the mountains of southern West Virginia pulling my 24' gooseneck loaded to its 15K capacity.

I met with my Ford dealer today. Thinking about treating myself to a new truck for my upcoming 50th birthday. I spec'd out another 350 DRW with a 6.2 gas and 4:30 gear and almost 9 grand cheaper than the diesel.

No more often than I tow my tractors, and for chores down on the farm I just can't justify the added cost of the diesel. It didn't work in 1999 and doesn't work in 2018

Just my .02
 
Last time I checked removing emissions whether from a gas or diesel engine is against federal law.
 
(quoted from post at 21:34:12 12/30/17) Last time I checked removing emissions whether from a gas or diesel engine is against federal law.

But if performance is improved, and fuel mileage is increased, how is it bad?
 
bought a new 17 ford F350 4x4 reg. cab long bed with 6.2 motor and 4.30 rears it actually pulls load better than 99 model 250 with v10 that it replaced. I farm but don't pull heavy loads everyday. I didn't see that I needed diesel then and especially now with emissions do dads on them. It really does a good job pulling these old tractors around. Mileage on 6.2 motor is better loaded than v10 it is about the same unloaded might get better with a few more miles on it.
 
I used to argue with people until I was blue in the face about how a diesel would pay for itself until about 05+/-. Hard to win that argument any more. It's more of an"I just want one" answer now. I can't afford those new ones anyway. The end of the good ones are just entering my price range.
 
Had 2 ford diesels. A 99 w/ 7.3 and an 04 w/ 6.0. Decided about 1 and a half yrs ago I wanted a new truck. I just couldn't justify the diesel this time and went with a 2016 ford with 6.2 and 4.30 rears. It does a damn fine job pulling for a gas rig, however I will say it is no diesel on long steep grades when loaded with anything more than 5000#, but I knew that going in. I have a car I drive to work so truck only gets approx. 5000 miles a year and for that I could not justify the diesel.
 
(quoted from post at 01:35:03 12/29/17) I don't know about that. I've got a 03 chevy crew cab shortbed 4x4 duramax Allison. I know diesels cost more than gas and maintenance/repair is higher but just don't know about the gas hauling. As far as hauling a few cattle at a time no problem. My flatbed gooseneck is 20+5 20k Gvw, I haul hay for the cattle, 15-20 4x5 bales at a time and tractors on occasion. The pulling tractor is a jd 4430 that weighs 10,000 pounds. .

20k is too much for a gasser in my opinion.
But the new 6.2L with 4.30 gears would probably pull it. I would think the GM 8.1L with 4.10's would pull that. Odds are your truck is overloaded with a 20k trailer if its SRW. Whether you care or not is a separate issue.
 
Every now and then i will cruise thru the
ford and gm lot here in town and they both
are stocking more gasoline HD trucks than
diesels versus a few years ago. Dealer i
purchased my GMC from told me they have
alot of current customers going away from
the diesel because of the maintenance costs
and the constant issues with Emissions.
 
The emissions on the newer engines is a joke and it?s crippling I think it would be hard to own one that didn?t have warranty on it but after the warranty is when the real good times start because you either have to keep fixing the emission problems on your dime which is very very expensive or delete the emissions and that can be a can of worms . When I worked for a trucking company we spent over 10,000 dollars in one month repairing emission systems on 3 trucks Def filters and other junk trucks throwing codes won?t run right breaking down on the road and everything else you can think of and all emissions related
 
And the up front cost too. Typically $9000 dollars and after taxes bang you, you can plan on $10,000 for the diesel upgrade depending on how hard your state taxes you.

There is a place for them. But you really need to be towing over 20k or seriously want the bro factor.
 
Laws about the use of alternative fuels vary from state to state. A commercial vehicle operated on the highway with untaxed fuel could lead to a hefty fine in most states. I have run many tanks of untaxed B100 biodiesel in my Dodge 12 valve pickup. I keep a letter addressed to me in glove compartment from our state department of transportation stating that alternative fuels are legal to use on the highway and do not require federal and state taxes to be paid.
 
Pretend Farmer, I guess that's why they have horse races. Gas vs. diesel. But I don't understand all this talk about diesels being more expensive to
maintain. In my experience just the opposite is true. I pulled tractors with my "88 7.3 Ford from Canada to Louisiana and all over the rest of this
country and never did anything to it but routine stuff like occasional oil changes, brakes, tires, and such. Other than that I once put a new
radiator in it and new glow plugs, and a clutch. Same thing with My "93 5.9 Cummins Dodge. Has a half a million miles on it. Just had to put another
clutch in it. Other than that just routine maintenance, except once for a front end rebuild. Got 15-17 mpg from my Ford and still get 23 with my
Dodge. I put ton and a half leaf springs on the back from a dump truck so it never squats. There is no possible way that an honest person can say he
is better off with a gas engine than with the most incredible motor ever put into a truck, the 12v Cummins. And regarding your comment about the
economy picking up, maybe you're just not paying attention. Our so-called dollar is supposed to be worth 100 copper pennies, right?. Have you
checked the foreign exchange markets lately. The so-called dollar is trading at 2 cents. That doesn't concern you? And with more and more nations
developing trade agreements that totally bypass the dollar, that 2 cents won't last a lot longer. If you factor in long term, extended indebtedness
for social security and medicare, our nations total indebtedness is over $230,000,000 000,000. That's 230 trillion dollars, increasing by millions
of dollars per minute. Haven't you noticed that the federal government no longer sticks to a budget? Instead, every few months they pass another
"continuing resolution" which requires raising the debt ceiling by a few more billions of dollars in order to keep the government from shutting
down. In other words, we are on financial life support, and cannot continue this borrowing cycle much longer. The piper will eventually have to be
paid. So I have no idea where you got the unfounded notion that our economy is improving but it sure wasn't from the facts.
 
You can't compare maintenance costs on a 25 year old Cummins with a new diesel of any make. The gasser will be cheaper. The new ones do not get much better mileage than the gas trucks (but they do have 1000 ft-lbs of torque). Diesel is far more expensive and the repair part costs will make you sick.

After that, I lost what you were rambling about with the two cents.
 
Walter,
We are talking about newer diesels. Not 20 year old trucks.
Its kind of a rare find these days to find a 12 valve Cummins that's not all rotted out, beat to hell with a 300,000 miles on it and dudes still want $10,000 for it.
This conversation is generally aimed at newer diesels, 10 years old or newer, if not brand new.
And in that category, most people would not benefit enough from the diesel engine cost alone to justify it. I know I wouldn't.

As for the economy, I realize what is going on in the world. And I am not saying we are doing great, or that the cancer has even reversed itself yet. I am not even saying an economic collapse in the future has been avoided yet. To further explain what I said, I will say that the decay of this country has slowed down a little bit. Will we ever be able to avoid an economic collapse in the future? I doubt it. But I doubt its going to happen in the next 10 years, if even in the next 15 years.
If it does, having a diesel engine isn't going to save you. Hunting and trapping skills, several guns and a good stock of ammo along with a steady water supply and a place to cook stuff will.

Read up on the Argentine economic collapse. That kind of thing is probably going to happen here some day. And if it does, unlike Argentina, the United States will drag down the whole world with it. So will it happen? I think so, but who knows. What I do know is the world depends on a stable US economy far more than a smaller country.

Back to your regularly scheduled program already in session.....
 

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