Dodge motor in a Chevy truck.

We are just about finished with this conversion, putting a "93 12v Cummins motor into a "94 Chevy Dually. We are having trouble finding a hydraulic
clutch line to match up the Chevy master clutch cylinder with the Dodge slave cylinder. Do any of you guys know where we might find such an animal?
Sure would appreciate your input.
 
Can you go to your local hose shop and have them try match up the ends and flare out a new line? If its two different size e lines just solder the two together. Be sure to use silver solder not soft solder. I have a set of prints for making the motor mounts for that truck, also parts are available for using a chevy auto tranny.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. We already made the motor mounts, installed the motor and cranked it up. Put a NV 4500 5 spd. behind it. Just tying up loose ends noww.
 
I would think a hydraulic shop could make up a line for you. Better yet, you might be able to adapt one of the ends with fittings from a hardware store or tractor supply.
 
Walter, how did you solve the intercooler problem? Go get fittings to adapt the line to the chev cylinder.
 
Haven't yet had time to go get the fittings. Solved the intercooler problem by using an all aluminum radiator that was narrow enough to allow room on each side for the intercooler lines but was thick enough for 3 rows.
 
Sounds like you have it whipped!

Is this a 2x4 or 4x4? I have visited this idea before to repower a 1979 C20 2x4.

Only thing different, I would have used an Auto Transmission. Easier install and more durable than a mechanical clutch.

CT
 
(quoted from post at 13:48:46 02/06/17) Sounds like you have it whipped!

..............more durable than a mechanical clutch.

CT
Most of that depends on the 'loose-nut behind the wheel'.
8)
 
No, we haven't yet found a hydraulic hose shop that can help us. I of course agree that it would have been much easier to hook up an automatic transmission, but I disagree that automatics are more durable. That has not been my experience or that of anybody else I know. Plus it's a whole lot cheaper to change a mechanical clutch than to rebuild an automatic. BTW, this truck is a typical 2 wheel drive dually.
 
Good to know that you stuffed this into a 2wd. Stock suspension? No body lift? This has been my only concern. All the build threads I find are on 4x4 chassis.

I will not go into why I put an Auto over a Man drivetrain for reliability... Modern Autos are darn near bullet proof 200k+ mile equipment. Hard to find a stick in a truck these days. But, I'm not trying to start a debate on transmissions... This is education on Cummins into 2wd GM truck!

Do you have any pictures or a build thread on this truck?

CT
 
We had to lift the cab about 2" to be able to close the hood, and we had to push that longer motor all the way back against the firewall. I do not have a pictorial history of the process. I know that automatic trannys are a lot more durable than they used to be, but putting the NV4500 manual in the truck was based on three concerns primarily. First, they are stronger when pulling a sustained heavy load. Second, they are less expensive to rebuild. Third, in the event of a general economic meltdown which I and many others are anticipating, we could rebuild the manual ourselves if we had to.
 
I suspected a cab lift was needed.

NV4500 is a tough xmission.

General Economic meltdown... It has happened before, will happen again.

CT
 
In the world of Dodge, the NV4500 is twice as durable than the 47RE or RH in stock form. If you were to go automatic, you would have likely wanted a 47RH unless you adapted to a GM trans. But the NV4500 is the clear choice for easier install because any strong enough auto overdrive transmission that comes to my mind would require an external controller or manual switches for overdrive or converter clutch lockup.
If you went with a TH400 which is very durable, you would not have any overdrive. Without 3.08 gearing you would max out before 60mph.
As you know but evidently CT does not, the NV4500 is a direct bolt up for a Cummins motor. And so is the 47RH but you'd still need a controller or switches. And unless you opened that trans up and build it a bit, its not as reliable as a NV4500 and if driven by someone competent, even a stockish clutch should last 200,000 miles.
The things that do suck about the NV4500 is a weak overdrive that's prone to having the 5th gear nut fall off unless the trans has been rebuilt with a fully splined shaft, and an reverse ratio that makes backing up heavy trailers difficult and damn near impossible when you have to back a heavy trailer up a steep hill.
 
Can't remember where I found it, some company on the internet. All aluminum. No plastic tanks to have to worry about busting out and leaking later.
This company has aluminum radiators in any size you want, even if they have to make it from scratch. When I get in later I'll try to find the invoice
and company name.
 
Thanks PF for the info. When I bought both the motor and tranny I had no way of proving either one. Of course I didn't like that but I had no choice
inasmuch as they came out of wrecked trucks that had been parted out. We have already cranked the Cummins motor. It sounds brand new. The owner of the
tranny told me he had already secured the the 5th gear nut I think he said he used a compression locknut. We'll see. Oh, BTW, I found the braided
stainless clutch line we needed at Speedway Racing. They may even have the speedometer cable but I haven't had time to stop and call them yet.
 
(quoted from post at 06:29:05 02/09/17) In the world of Dodge, the NV4500 is twice as durable than the 47RE or RH in stock form. If you were to go automatic, you would have likely wanted a 47RH unless you adapted to a GM trans. But the NV4500 is the clear choice for easier install because any strong enough auto overdrive transmission that comes to my mind would require an external controller or manual switches for overdrive or converter clutch lockup.
If you went with a TH400 which is very durable, you would not have any overdrive. Without 3.08 gearing you would max out before 60mph.
As you know but evidently CT does not, the NV4500 is a direct bolt up for a Cummins motor. And so is the 47RH but you'd still need a controller or switches. And unless you opened that trans up and build it a bit, its not as reliable as a NV4500 and if driven by someone competent, even a stockish clutch should last 200,000 miles.
The things that do suck about the NV4500 is a weak overdrive that's prone to having the 5th gear nut fall off unless the trans has been rebuilt with a fully splined shaft, and an reverse ratio that makes backing up heavy trailers difficult and damn near impossible when you have to back a heavy trailer up a steep hill.

I am familiar with Cummins and Dodge. A built 47 is what I was referring to. A 48 or Allison isn't applicable without the electronics to go with it. A stock 12v should not break any of them.

I assume the truck was manual to begin with, which the NV4500 makes perfect sense. Manuals are reliable, its clutch maintenance that I was referring to. Keep an auto full of fluid and cool, they are more reliable than a clutch, slave and throwout!

We need some pictures! Good Luck!

CT
 
(quoted from post at 09:12:47 02/15/17) The truck was automatic to begin with. We had to order a special bellhousing from Advance Adapters for it. Perfect fit.
I'm just trying to understand something about this installation. PretendFarmer says the NV4500 Is a direct bolt up to the Cummins, yet you say you had to purchase a custom bellhousing. Did your NV4500 not come from a Dodge, or did it involve something with the slave cylinder install? Or was it not the HD version NV usually found behind Cummins.

There are several variations of the NV4500, some of the earlier GM versions actually had more of a "granny" first gear than the later GM and Dodge. I'd have to look it up, but I believe the later Dodge ones for the Cummins were more HD, with larger diameter shafts, etc. I hope you ended up with one of those. I'm sure you know about only using the special oil in those trannies.

Good luck in completing your project.
 
This NV4500 came out of a "98 Chevy 3500 HD. It required a larger input shaft. We put the paraffin based oil in it from Baton Rouge Industries, known
for its far superior load carrying capacity, high heat tolerance, aversion to water, and proven tendency to cling to whatever surface it is placed on.
What kind of "special oil" were you referring to?
 

75w-90 Castrol Syntorque
Mopar 4874459
GM US 12346190
GM Canada 10953477

Requires 4 quarts or 1 gallon...

ANY OTHER OIL WILL TRASH THE COMPOSITE SYNCHRONIZERS! From what I have heard and read if ANY OTHER LUBRICANT is used... It will cause the composite syncros to start sticking and degrading, necessitating a transmission rebuild.

Advance Adapters (where you bought your parts) has an entire page dedicated to the NV4500 and explicit details on lubrication.

CT
 
Read this from Wikipedia, but there's a lot a lot more info around on the web about these trannies; they changed somewhat over the years in both GM and Dodge. You can see that the earlier ones had a lower reverse gear making better for backing up with a load.

Special Synthetic gear oil is required for proper operation and lifespan of the carbon composite gear synchronizers.

These are the only lubricants recommended by New Venture Gear for the NV4500:

75W-90 Castrol Syntorque Synthetic

Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant Mopar P/N 4874459 (Material Specification 9070)

GM Goodwrench? Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid (GM Part No. U.S. 12346190, in Canada 10953477)

Only use the special SYNTHETIC oil, it?s expensive but it's what you need to keep the synchros going, and is just better in general for heavy loads. Hope you got a good one from that 99.
NV4500
 
"98. I haven't talked to the tech rep at B.R. Industries yet about the appropriatness of their paraffin based gear oil for the NV4500, but we have not driven the truck yet. Is it your opinion that if paraffin based gear oil will damage the carbon composite synchronizers, we will have already harmed them merely by having that type of oil inside the transmission housing?
 

Did you get adapter to bolt the chevy 4500 the a Dodge bell housing or to bolt the Chevy bell housing to a Cummins engine.
Trying to get it straight in my head why your needing to mix Chevy and Dodge clutch hydros

Even the early Dodge autos had electronic torque convertor lockup, so one would have to control that by hand or some type of controller is needed. One can tie up a fair amount of $$ in a custom flex plate and trans controller, much more than a good clutch cost.

I did a Cummins conversion a few years ago on my F-450, I'm running a 215 hp ppump 12 valve with a Ford ZF6 six spd manual. Engines making a little over 300 hp, it does a good job towing good sized loads.
 
Actually, neither one. He said it was a complete custom bellhousing installed on the Cummins to allow the Chevy 4500 to bolt up to the Dodge/Cummins.

I assume this makes the swap easier since you can use a stock chevy master cylinder and pedal assembly and retain the original clutch and slave cylinder on the Cummins. This will work as long as the GM master cylinder displaces the proper amount of fluid to activate the Dodge slave. He also had to change the input shaft from GM to Dodge.
 
(quoted from post at 14:51:34 02/16/17) "98. I haven't talked to the tech rep at B.R. Industries yet about the appropriatness of their paraffin based gear oil for the NV4500, but we have not driven the truck yet. Is it your opinion that if paraffin based gear oil will damage the carbon composite synchronizers, we will have already harmed them merely by having that type of oil inside the transmission housing?
You'll probably be OK since you haven't run it and I think the problems start when the oil gets hot. Anyway, what's done is done, drain it out real good and refill.

The thing is you really aren't sure what shape the used tranny was in when you purchased, right?
 
That is correct. But it's a 3500, not a 4500. Speedway Racing supplied us with the stainless, braided fluid line to connect the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. It had to be at least 38" long because the slave cylinder is on the other side on the trans. They had either a 32" one or a 48" one. Nothing in between. So we bought the 48" one of course.
 
Correct. However, I have spoken to the seller several times over the years, including just a few days ago. He assures me of its soundness, and seems
like an honest man. Of course one never knows until the rubber meets the road, but I'm really not anticipating any problems there.
 
It's a 3500, not a 4500. The adapter was necessary because the NV4500 was the GMHD version being bolted to the Cummins motor. The problem really
wasn't with a difference in the fittings between the master cylinder and the slave cylinder. It was just the extra length needed. We have it now,
although one end is leaking so Speedway is sending us another set of O'rings for the push-in fittings.
 
(quoted from post at 07:57:00 02/18/17) That is correct. But it's a 3500, not a 4500. Speedway Racing supplied us with the stainless, braided fluid line to connect the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. It had to be at least 38" long because the slave cylinder is on the other side on the trans. They had either a 32" one or a 48" one. Nothing in between. So we bought the 48" one of course.
orry, when I said Chevy 4500 I meant it was an NV4500 coming from a Chevy, not a 4500 model truck. Yeah, I've heard of clearance problems with the clutch slave being on the right hand side with some swaps, but it seems like you will be good to go.
 
Did you put a 366 (3200 rpm) governor spring in it?
Most guys who do report better fuel mileage.
And it helps save fifth gear. None of the "bulletproof" fixes are all that bulletproof.
If you can be in fourth gear, don't be in fifth, when you've got a load on. An extra 700 RPM helps in that regard.

Fuel mileage with a 24 valve at 65 against the governor, will be better than 5th gear at 70, towing.
 
Didn't put a 366 governor spring in it. This is first time anyone has broached that subject. But I will say this: The general scuttlebutt was that the NV4500 was a considerable improvement over the Getrag, yet my "93 Dodge Dually, with the factory 5 speed Getrag, has over half a million miles on it and still pulls my gooseneck with 2 tractors on it just as good as it ever did. It has Amsoil gear lube in it, with an extra quart to be sure that top bearing gets adequate lubrication. And all I am hearing now is that the NV4500 has a weak 5th gear. I never had to worry about that with the Getrag. I am almost wishing I had put one in this conversion. I have access to a clean "91 Dodge Dually with a 318 gas and a 5 speed Getrag in it for $700. I think I'll go ahead and buy it just in case I might need the tranny or something else from it. And I had driving experiences such as you apparently have which proves that when pulling a heavy load, cruising in 4th gear at a lower speed significantly improves fuel mileage. One night I blew out a tire on my gooseneck with 2 tractors on it. I did not want to have to stop and change the tire in the dark on the shoulder of the road so I downshifted into 4th and backed down to about 50 mph for the final 150 miles to the house and was just amazed at how at how little movement occurred in the fuel gauge needle.
 
5th gear failure is somewhat exaggerated on the internet like anything else, but its real. I had a 97 2500 12 valve with a NV4500. I hauled in 5th every time I had the gooseneck hooked up and it weighted about 15,000. But I wasn't stupid with it, I would downshift on any hill climb that required more than 20 lbs of boost.
Though not bullet proof, its generally known that a fully splined mainshaft with the updated nut pretty much eliminated the failure. But no manual trans that comes in pickup trucks should ever be lugged in overdrive.
 
True enough. With my "93 with the Getrag, I always leave it in 5th while pulling on an uphill grade, but I listen to the motor and let it tell me when
it wants a lower gear.There are some hills in Alabama that require a downshift into 1st if I'm pulling a heavy load. Takes forever to get up such a
hill in 1st gear but honestly there is just no other way. Remember those tornadoes that tore up central Alabama several years ago? I was on a church
relief effort there after they went through, pulling my Case 995 with a loader on my gooseneck, on rainy wet streets, barely able to get enough
traction to even move forward on some of those hills. One lady had called in a work request requiring a tractor to move a tree so I took it. After
struggling for about an hour on those wet, narrow streets to just get to her, all she needed was someone to pack a small stack of firewood-sized logs
from her carport to the street, a distance of maybe 90 feet. I had to hurry up and leave before I came unglued.
 

We've had a few tornado's thru here over the years, last one our fire dept was going around checking on folk and removing trees and limbs off of roofs and entry ways, we worked at one family's home for nearly two hours removing limbs from two large trees, luckily only minor roof damage, they where apologetic about us doing so much work for them and brought us drinks and snacks.
A few homes later we removed some small limbs from a home and the guy got mad when we left the limbs on his property.

I did a conversion a couple years ago replacing the blown 6.0 in my F-450 with a 97 12v Cummins, used a adapter to connect to the zf6 trans.
 
Did the adapter come from Advance Adapters? On another church service assignment after hurricane Ivan clobbered Pensacola, we were getting ready
Saturday morning to head out into the neighborhood to cut trees off of houses, clear driveways, etc., when a lady next door to the church walked over
from her big, expensive brick house which suffered no damage and said " A previous church crew already removed all the blown down pine trees and cut
the trunks down to the stumps but could you come over before you head out and remove all the stumps in our yard?" I kidd you not!
 

Adapter was from Destroked: Cummins conversion company.

Sounds about right her asking you that, I'm sure you ran right over and did that for her so she wouldn't have to hire a stump removal company.
Mean while down the road folks in a shack are saying to just leave that small stuff, they will clean that up while you help those in need.
 
Here ya go been running this for 30,000 miles no issues with fifth gear since I installed it
a153951.jpg
 
Very impressive. The guy I bought the NV4500 from told me he had already put a good locknut on the 5th gear so I guess we'll see when we start driving it. Did you notice that comment from T in NE about a 366 governor spring? Do you know anything about that?
 
Never had the governor spring on my gen one and it pulled fine it would be nice I guess I towed pretty heavy with that ol truck with the stock rpm which is about 2500 that's why those trucks didn't have a tach
a154019.jpg
 
Wow! What a picture. What John Deere is that? Looks like the baler is barely hanging on, but I guess it acts as a counterweight to help lighten the load on the bed? Tell me more about the truck.
 
1992 w250 nv4500 five speed I turned the pump up it had stock injectors the tractor is a 4430 with loaded tires front and rear and ten John Deere suitcase weights the baler is a John Deere 535
 
How far did you have to pull it? Did you ever replace the injectors with ones of higher horsepower? What would you guess to be the total weight of the load?
 
(quoted from post at 16:07:06 03/12/17) Never had the governor spring on my gen one and it pulled fine it would be nice I guess I towed pretty heavy with that ol truck with the stock rpm which is about 2500 that's why those trucks didn't have a tach.

They will run all day governed at 2500. We have one in an articulated sprayer that we use to spray sulfuric acid on potatoes. Load the tank with 1000 gal (15300 lbs) of acid and run down soft potato rows. Pulls 380/90/46 rubber at 10 mph all day on the governor.
 
Hailed this 100 miles one way twice a year through the hills and valleys of east Idaho. i kept the injectors and governor spring stock hauled Lots of loads like this
a155305.jpg
 
I also run a filter kit on my trans and transfer case going to add a cooler on the other side of the trans
a155457.jpg
 
castrol dont make syntorque gear oil anymore , closest thing ive found is lucas syn. thats what im using now
 
It sure don't hurt if your toeing a lot they only hold 4 quarts of oil so between the cooler and filter it adds about 2 quarts capacity that trans is awfully small to be putting that much power to the ground . I also drill a hole in the bottom of the case and tap it for a drain plug on every transmission I rebuild thst way the oil can be changed every 30,000 these transmission wouldn't suffer from near as many issues if the oil was changed regularly
 
(quoted from post at 13:17:48 03/27/17) castrol dont make syntorque gear oil anymore , closest thing ive found is lucas syn. thats what im using now

You can still get it from any GM or Dodge/Ram dealership.
I used to get it from GMpartsdirect.com I think it was GM part number 12346190. Its the real stuff.
 
Let me weigh in on this. I just wasted several hundred dollars on Clutch master cylinders and clutch slave cylinders. I have a 93 Chevy with 5.9L Cummins (not dodge truck motor, but same everything. My engine came out of a Roll-back truck. I used a Chevy clutch and flywheel, with NV4500. Long story short, if you use Chevy OEM parts fine, but...

This Chinese crap you get from Advanced Auto, Autozone, O'Reilleys, is not made to spec. I ran into the problem you are going to have. No matter what I did with miss-matched Chinese crap master & slaves, I would grind in reverse. It would shift, but that terrible little grind annoyed the heck out of me. No matter how much I bled, the same. I made extendable & adjustable rods (which I still have) and offer up to your demise...

Finally, I ordered a Clutch Master & Slave cylinder combo, with line from O'Reilleys, and it hit reverse perfect the first time.

I converted my truck in 2004, and have replaced the clutch and slave more than twice before this, but the recent influx of cheap Chinese parts not made to spec has opened my eyes. It may be crap shoot, and you hit the nail the first time or, you enjoy my issues. The rods are available, if you pay for shipping.

Wayne
 
Let me clear something up. Built my conversion in 2004, Clutch slaves and Masters were fine until 2014, when slave started leaking, and replaced by warranty from Advanced Auto, and thus began my plight with Chinese crap parts. I could lay out two or three slaves and two or three masters, and the rods would be different lengths. Remember, the Master rod has a lock on it, making it difficult to change. I numbered and swapped first, and then made adjustable rods. I would almost get there with the adjustable rods. Who would have thought bugger rigging would begin with the correct part number from the parts desk, but it did. First time luck is possible. Sure.
Wayne
 
Thanks Wayne for the heads up. I generally buy from a NAPA dealer. Cost a little more and no lifetime warranty buy I have found that the lifetime warranty from Auto Zone and to a somewhat lesser degree O'Reilly,s is just a gimmick to lure buyers into purchasing inferior parts. Plus, the warranty doesn't cover the time and aggravation involved in changing the part.
 
Often new is not available for old vehicles. I ordered a new power steering pump from O'Reilly's today for the truck. But it is actually a reman. All
3 parts houses in town offered it only in reman.
 

I have a 1979 C20 Chevy... Can get new aftermarket parts for almost anything on it... Some are even OEM. OEM is usually mail order though.

Still agree, reman, lifetime parts will be every 2 year replacements.

CT
 
Well, this truck so far has a brand new all aluminum radiator and hoses and inter-cooler, brand new extra heavy duty clutch pack and fly wheel, brand
new starter, brand new master clutch and slave cylinder, brand new gauges, brand new injectors, battery, etc., and will soon have 6 brand new tires. I
decided on a reman on the power steering pump because I already own an OEM pump with only 75K on it so I can use it if and when this reman goes out.
The Cummins motor came with low miles as did the NV4500 tranny. We cranked the motor a couple of weeks ago for the first time and it sounds brand new.
Should be able to test the tranny in a day or two. It's a very clean truck except in a couple of places on the right side where a bull gored it. I did
body and paint work for over 20 years so I'll probably do the minor body work. This truck also has full length running boards and mud guards but I
haven't yet decided whether to remove them or leave them on. It also has an old analog cell phone between the front seats. Wish their was some way to
make it work.
 

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