Putting an 89 Dodge Motor into an 06 Body

I have a 1989 Dodge D-250 with a 12v Cummins up front. The body is shot but the motor has less than 80K on it. Is it feasible to put this motor into an "06 Dodge 3500 4WD body? Both have automatic trannys. Can any of you guys comment on what would be involved? Thanks
 
You can fit it in easy enough but the tough part is your computer will not work with it. Truck will run but you won't have any dash readings, speedometer etc.
 
Adaptations such as this is possible but why? Is the truck currently powered by a Cummins? If so its gonna be a far superior common rail. I am a huge fan of the 12 valve but would be hard pressed to replace a common rail with one. Not to mention the least powerful, non intercooled Cummins ever.
If your truck is a gasser or you really want to put a 12 valve in, at least get a P-pumped 12 valve. Lots of power can be had, and its got a better turbo stock, and an intercooler. The 89 VE pumped engine is not intercooled, has a non waste gated turbo, and is limited by the design of the VE pump.

Edit; if the truck is a gas job you would need to obtain another trans. Easiest way to drop a 12 valve into a newer truck like that is going with a manual trans.
Also, the truck would most likely not comply with emissions requirements and thus would be unregisterable.
 
I'm not 100% certain the old one is an "89. Might be a "91. I currently drive a "93 12v, intercooled. Has all the power I need. Gets about 23 mpg. The other truck has a 24v Cummins in it.
 
A non-factory engine might hurt the resale value of your '06. If you can get it to run decently, it would still be an odd-ball that no shops have the correct manuals for it. It would take too many hours for mechanics to trouble-shoot every engine problem from scratch. Some shops shops might choose to refuse to work on it rather than present an extremely high repair bill. Dealers might treat it as an non-titled vehicle to avoid dealing with an altered emissions system. Those would all be OK if you plan to only work on the truck yourself, never have it inspected and never sell it.

You might be time and money ahead to salvage or sell the '89 and trade the '06 for the type of truck that you really want.
 
Unless you salvage and install ALL of the electronics and wiring that go with the engine/chassis that the engine comes out of, you will have endless electronic problems. As already stated, there will be many compatibility problems that will need to be dealt with. Then there are the mechanical limitations. Over the 17 year span that separates the engine and the body, there may have been significant changes in engine mounting, accessory mounting, coupling up things like power steering, exhaust, etc. as well as fuel system compatibility. '06 has a fully contained evaporative emission system while the '89 does NOT.
Overall, why would you want to take a 2006 vehicle back to a 1989 level? According to EPA requirements, you would still need to comply with 2006 emission requirements. I would call such a project a fool's errand. Do as you like, but I suspect the following will haunt you:
1) Overcoming physical differences.
2) Electronic/electrical incompatibilities.
3) Instrumentation may NEVER be able to function correctly.
4) May have to be recertified by EPA to be highway legal.
5) This is likely to be just the tip of the iceberg in terms of potential problems.

So, I will offer this suggestion.......
Find a BODY from another '89 that is NOT shot, and make a good truck out of it. They are out there. Years ago, I recall working with a guy from upstate NY. He would go to Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and buy vehicles from oil company auctions. Running gear would be worn out, but the bodies were as solid as new. We brought them back to his shop near Watertown, and he replaced the running gear with low mileage running gear from rusted out vehicles from the local area. He repainted them, and made a LOT of money from them. They turned out to be in high demand in his area. You may have to travel a good ways to find a truck that will meet your needs, but in the long run, it would be worth it.
 
(quoted from post at 14:03:00 12/16/14) . He would go to Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and buy vehicles from oil company auctions. Running gear would be worn out, but the bodies were as solid as new..

This is what I should do as my 97 Cummins has 105000 miles on it but has north east cab rot.

Back to the subject, if theres a 24 valve in it, youd be a fool to put even a 91 intercooled VE pump 12 valve in. You would be hard pressed just to get the 12 valve VE motor to do what the bone stock 24 valve common rail will.

Getting the engine in and making things work is really not that difficult. Making it legal, and somehow justifying such a stupid idea is the hard part.

Edit; if you were talking about a Ppump motor that would be half as stupid as the VE motor. At least power is easy to come by on a Ppump and there really wasnt a more reliable Cummins ever made than the 96-98 Ppump 12 valve.
 
Wastegates didn't come around til the 24 valve. It would bolt right in, you just need to swap over the starter, flywheel housing, and torque converter.

All automatics made 160 horse til the 24 valve as well.

Remember, your 06 probably weighs a good ton more than your first gen.

If you have the non dpf 5.9 I would leave it alone.

It's fairly easy- but not cheap- to fit a VE to a common rail. Some guys have done it to get rid ofthe emissions equipment and computer controls. They said drivability really improved.

The P7100 can make a lot more power than the VE44 but all you can really do is dump more fuel to it. The VE won't make as much power but it can make the power more efficiently. And they are a pretty simple pump.

And they start a lot better too. I love having a newer truck beside me crank for several seconds to start, then bump the starter and have mine running.
 
Going to have to give you guys a lesson on the time line of the engine in these trucks.
89-91 non-intercooled, VE pumped truck, conservative 160hp setting, 9mm injector nozzles.
91.5 intercooled, VE pump, 160hp, changed head to 7mm nozzles, 9mm heads had tendancy to crack around injector bore.
92-93, same as the 91.5 only they added a PCM to handle some of the functions like intake heater cycling, alternator regulator, etc...
94-95, new body style, intercooled, P-pump, added wastegated turbine housing, lockup converter for autos, 160hp auto and 175hp manual
96-97, changed auto trans to electronic control, upped hp to 180 for auto and 215 for manual.
98, early 98 trucks stand alone, its a transition year, they still use the 12 valve engine, but the dash, wiring harness and PCM have been updated. Using 12 valve 98 engine wiring harness and PCM it is possible to almost seemlessly install a 12 valve engine in place of a VP pumped 24 valve up to 2002.
98.5-02, 24 valve engine, VP44 electronic injection pump, 235hp in auto, 5 speed and early 6 speed (2000). 245hp in 6 speed (01 to 02).
03-07, 5.9L common rail 24 valve, wastegated turbo, this is where my knowledge starts to degrade, I don't know as much about these as the older ones I've worked on.
07.5 and up, 6.7 common rail 24 valve, variable vane turbo, I know even less about these.


As far as power out of a VE I will agree they will not move the fuel like a P-pump. However they are a capable injection pump and will easily make 350hp with plenty of torque with the right injectors and be very pleasent to drive. I would not call them simple, they are a bit more complex than a P-pump, there is alot going on inside one, there is a variable timing piston that advances the injection timing as rpm increases. The reason they start so quicly is they are at full fuel when at rest, thats why they start so quickly.
 
(quoted from post at 07:06:50 12/17/14) Wastegates didn't come around til the 24 valve. It would bolt right in, you just need to swap over the starter, flywheel housing, and torque converter.

All automatics made 160 horse til the 24 valve as well.

Remember, your 06 probably weighs a good ton more than your first gen.

If you have the non dpf 5.9 I would leave it alone.

It's fairly easy- but not cheap- to fit a VE to a common rail. Some guys have done it to get rid ofthe emissions equipment and computer controls. They said drivability really improved.

The P7100 can make a lot more power than the VE44 but all you can really do is dump more fuel to it. The VE won't make as much power but it can make the power more efficiently. And they are a pretty simple pump.

And they start a lot better too. I love having a newer truck beside me crank for several seconds to start, then bump the starter and have mine running.

I don't know why you continue to insist there is no wastegate till the 24 valve. 1994 models came with whc1. Guess what the W stands for. The rest of your knowledge has been corrected by mike.
 
Thanks for all the time you took to type this. And thanks to everyone else for their comments. I've decided to not pursue the project, especially since we are not yet through putting a "93 12v Cummins into a "94 Chevy 3500. And a Merry Christmas to all.
 
(quoted from post at 04:19:40 12/18/14) Thanks for all the time you took to type this. And thanks to everyone else for their comments. I've decided to not pursue the project, especially since we are not yet through putting a "93 12v Cummins into a "94 Chevy 3500. And a Merry Christmas to all.

Hey let us know how that goes, I'm interested to know. I have heard that a cummins is tough to fit in those Chevys.
 


How about putting that motor into a rust free southern or western '89? Sure the motor is a lot less powerful than newer versions but you would get good legal towing torque for short money.
 
(quoted from post at 14:50:19 12/18/14)

How about putting that motor into a rust free southern or western '89? Sure the motor is a lot less powerful than newer versions but you would get good legal towing torque for short money.

That motor would be 49 state emissions compliant up to 1998. 1998.5 is when things changed.
 
We are almost through with it. The battery is going in tomorrow. The back of the motor is up against the firewall. It's best to remove the front cap first, install the motor mounts, secure the motor and tranny, then reinstall the cap. Of course you also have to adjust the length of the drive shaft and hook up the electrical stuff, but that's not so difficult. We also had to get a special Dodge to Chevy bell housing. Piece a cake!
 
We could put it into anything up to "93, even later with some modifications. But the bodies are not available. Those Cummins diesel motors are still running good while the bodies are falling apart.
 
I found a good used NV-4500 five speed. Haven't yet checked the rear end ratio. This 3500 was so clean that I wasn't even concerned about that, especially not with only having to give $500 for it, and it was a daily driver. Had the 6.5 up front, with an A.T. Sold them both for $350. Fuel and oil were mixing.
 
(quoted from post at 16:11:32 12/22/14) This one was in a Chevy 3500, an 06 I think.

The NV4500 was only offered in 92-98 Chevys so if it did come out of a 06 it wasn't put there by the factory. The best way to verify weather it's HD or not is measure the diameter of the input shaft. 1.125" is light duty and 1.250" is HD. Trans specs can be found on diesel hub.
 
Any 3 quarter or 1 ton 4x4 before 94 will take that motor with heavier front springs. 2wd with the 4000 pound front axle will too. The 3300 pound 2wd front axle components won't take the weight.
 
It's been so long ago when I bought it that the seller could very well have said "96 instead of "06. Matter of fact, now that I think about it, I'm almost sure that's what he said, because I remember thinking in my mind that the tranny was 3 years younger than the motor. It's already attached to the motor too, and everything is in place, and we're now hooking up the power steering lines, electrical stuff, etc., so how could I determine the diameter of the input shaft at this late date? So you're saying that Chevy put some light duty trannys in even their one ton duallys?
 
Door sticker or run the VIN. The control arms are identical except the ones for the heavier axle are a little thicker as well as the springs and shocks being longer. The heavier ball joints have larger studs. I think the crew cab long boxes all came with the heavier axle as well as all diesels. A half ton frame can be used with the heavier suspension but you would want to get it straightened and box it while it's tore down. Boxing the rear 2/3 of the frame isn't a bad idea on these if you plan to use it. They are pretty flexible from the factory.
 
Plus advanced timing thanks to the ksb. There's a
machine shop making a spacer for it for more top end
timing without losing low end torque from turning
the pump.
They are pretty simple to mod once you get into it
and see how it works.
 
(quoted from post at 17:15:46 12/23/14) It's been so long ago when I bought it that the seller could very well have said "96 instead of "06. Matter of fact, now that I think about it, I'm almost sure that's what he said, because I remember thinking in my mind that the tranny was 3 years younger than the motor. It's already attached to the motor too, and everything is in place, and we're now hooking up the power steering lines, electrical stuff, etc., so how could I determine the diameter of the input shaft at this late date? So you're saying that Chevy put some light duty trannys in even their one ton duallys?

I cannot be 100% certain but I dont believe chevy ever used the NV4500HD.

Does it have a slip or fixed yoke?
I assume you havent driven it at all. When you do, if it has a non-syncronized reverse thats a dead give away at a NV4500LD chevy.
The HD version has a input torque rating of 460 ft-lbs. Many including myself consider that a very conservative number.
I'm not sure what the LD rating is, but I think its around 400ft-lbs. That's why Chevy opted to use that on its gas and diesel motors of the time because they werent that powerful.

MY biggest wonder is how you got a flywheel for a Cummins diesel with the smaller Pilot hole size. I believe the nub on the front of the input for an HD is .750" and the LD is something like .650". Though Im not sure of the exact size of the LD pilot nub I do believe they are a different size. If thats the case, you'll strip gears out quickly as a manual trans relys on the pilot bearing for correct gear alignment.

But you do have it bolted up so maybe somehow you have an HD. There isnt a clutch option out there Im aware of that will fit the LD input shaft and bolt to a cummins flywheel.
 
I just talked to Matthew at Advance Adapters where I purchased the bell housing for fitting a Dodge Cummins motor to a Chevy NV-4500 tranny. $400 including shipping. He said the gears in a LD are exactly the same as those in a HD, that the only difference is in the size of the input shaft. The HD was inch and a quarter. The LD was inch and an eighth, and that the only width mine could be, since they built the bell housing, was inch and a quarter. The heaviest duty clutch pack available from O'Reilly's cost another $400. They also had no problem furnishing the flywheel. My mechanic is 66 years old. This kind of work is all he has ever done. He works on this project off and on because he isn't charging me anything. Most of his time is spent rebuilding motors, clutches, and transmissions on semi's and farm tractors. I believe he knows what he is doing. We should be driving this truck in just a few more days.
 
The input shaft and bearing retainer are different. The mainshaft is bigger on the hd version. Gears are the same. Early Chevy versions had a lower first and no synchronized reverse. If it had the 1-1/4" input it's hd unless someone changed it. I don't know why you had to fab a bell housing. The transmissions case is the same so a dodge nv4500 bell housing would've worked fine.
 
We didn't have a Dodge NV-4500 bell housing. We tried a couple of older Dodge bell housings but the bolt patterns were different. The folks at Advance Adapters came highly recommended as the only place to go in order to fit a "93 12v Cummins to a "98 Chevy NV-4500 tranny. I called all over this country. They were the only company who had what we needed.
 
If you are not going to use that 12 valve, it might like to live in my 56 Ford C-6 cabover, depending on how far away you are.
 

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