3.73 or 4.10

redgems

Member

Wondering which 3.73 or 4.10 is more desirable on a 2500 HD Duramax/Allison.For pulling a trailer?
Thanks,
Tony
 
No need for 4.10's on a diesel for most applications. Dedicated tow rig pulling 20,000lbs? 4.10.
Weekend warrior? 3.73's.
 
Well i really don't know much about the Chebby diesels as to where there torque range is so it is hard to say. As for a Cummins your best bet would be 3.54 to 3.73 as the 4.10 gears plum SUCK. Here your area of driving and road speed come into play . You want to keep a diesel in it's working range not up against the gov. only the old 2 cycle Detroits needed to work wide open to make power . Nobody really looks into this when buying a new truck , they see one setting and just buy it then complain that this truck will not do what i want. or my fuel mileage is not what they told me . Case in point here my old Dodge is a Cummins five speed with the 4.10 gear , You are NOT suppose to TOW in O/D since the transmission was of poor design , so ok ya do all your towing in forth at flat out up against the pump at STOCK setting of 2650 on a 235-85-16 tire that relates to 56 MPH flat out . Not a good thing if your trying to run the big road . But for grandpa on the back roads 45-50 is fine . Now put that 4.10 gear in a higher reving engine where the torque range falls in the 3200-3400 RPM range then it is a great choice like with a 460 Ford gasser and now your road speed it in the mid sixty's with the same transmission and tire size . Just take a moment and think of what your going to do with the truck 90% of the time and set it up for that and live with the rest.
 
Unless things have changed, you cannot get the Duramax with 4.10s from the factory. Enough torque you don't really need them... Usually their 3/4 ton gas trucks come standard with 4.10s though.
 
(quoted from post at 16:14:04 02/25/14) Well i really don't know much about the Chebby diesels as to where there torque range is so it is hard to say. As for a Cummins your best bet would be 3.54 to 3.73 as the 4.10 gears plum SUCK. Here your area of driving and road speed come into play . You want to keep a diesel in it's working range not up against the gov. only the old 2 cycle Detroits needed to work wide open to make power . Nobody really looks into this when buying a new truck , they see one setting and just buy it then complain that this truck will not do what i want. or my fuel mileage is not what they told me . Case in point here my old Dodge is a Cummins five speed with the 4.10 gear , You are NOT suppose to TOW in O/D since the transmission was of poor design , so ok ya do all your towing in forth at flat out up against the pump at STOCK setting of 2650 on a 235-85-16 tire that relates to 56 MPH flat out . Not a good thing if your trying to run the big road . But for grandpa on the back roads 45-50 is fine . Now put that 4.10 gear in a higher reving engine where the torque range falls in the 3200-3400 RPM range then it is a great choice like with a 460 Ford gasser and now your road speed it in the mid sixty's with the same transmission and tire size . Just take a moment and think of what your going to do with the truck 90% of the time and set it up for that and live with the rest.

I tow in 5th. Just dont lug it, and I never consistantly push over 20psi in 5th. Rpm's drop below 1700 I drop to 4th. When towing I often dont shift to 5th till 60. Driven properly, you can tow with a NV4500 in 5th for a long time.
 
Well thats great . BUT i can not get to 60 in forth 56 is flat on the floor maxed out there ain't no more . And according to what i am told that even the weight of a maxed out one ton is really more then O/D is designed for . My buddy Eugene has a 2001 5.9 tweaked a little and insists on using the O/D while pulling things . ask him how many times his transmission has been on the bench . Oh and i do not work on other peoples trucks BTW. Oh and ask the guy down the street that works on pick ups how well towing works on the NV4500 in O/D . IMHOP it is a Pizzs poor transmission lousy gear spacing lousy rev way to fast for backing unless your plowing snow . But that is just me . The six speed is a little better but rev. is still way to fast for backing .
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:56 02/25/14) Well thats great . BUT i can not get to 60 in forth 56 is flat on the floor maxed out there ain't no more . And according to what i am told that even the weight of a maxed out one ton is really more then O/D is designed for . My buddy Eugene has a 2001 5.9 tweaked a little and insists on using the O/D while pulling things . ask him how many times his transmission has been on the bench . Oh and i do not work on other peoples trucks BTW. Oh and ask the guy down the street that works on pick ups how well towing works on the NV4500 in O/D . IMHOP it is a Pizzs poor transmission lousy gear spacing lousy rev way to fast for backing unless your plowing snow . But that is just me . The six speed is a little better but rev. is still way to fast for backing .

I wont argue the reverse ratio, its a bit too high but I manage.
I wouldnt rate this trans at the top of the list but pizz poor? I completely disagree.
Used in its as designed manner its easily a 300,000+ mile trans. You may have to address a 5th gear failure in that time.(not a big deal)
Dont tow in 5th below 1700rpms. Simple. Dont push over 20psi of boost while in 5th consistantly, simple.
If your friend is constantly pulling his NV4500, its because he either lugs it in overdrive, uses the wrong fluid (only GL-4 synthetic and nothing else), or the guy who rebuilt it isnt doing it properly.
Manuals must be rebuilt properly or they will keep blowing. Period.
IT may not be the most durable, but I would be surprised if someone blew it in less than 100,000 miles of towing heavy unless they didnt follow the above. And at the cost to overhaul, its among the cheapest there is.
No tranny should be lugged in overdrive. Auto's dont give you the option (from the factory).

Quite a few people on Cumminsforum push way over the rated input power of the NV4500 with no problems. The only gear that cannot and shouldnt take above stock power is 5th.
 
Well for you it maybe a fine transmission as i do not know where you live but over here in the hill country they suck on a diesel . The gear ratio needs to be closer and ya need more gears to WORK in the power range . Now my truck does not do a lot of towing as it is primarily a service truck and the only real towing is pulling a fertilizer buggy with up to six ton or 11 4x4 round bales on the bale wagon . I have not pulled my gooseneck since 2001 . Now if i got my Jollys off working on cars and trucks like i use to there might have been a couple changes made to my Goat (1) atleast a 8 speed with a divorced NP 205 transfer case and a swap to a danna 60 with LOCK OUTS (2) a gear change in the rear ends to atleast a 3.73 -8. And(3) a better heater core . at one time i even kicked the idea around of a air ride suspension . But working on my own stuff does not pay the bills .
 
(quoted from post at 20:53:25 02/25/14) Well for you it maybe a fine transmission as i do not know where you live but over here in the hill country they suck on a diesel . The gear ratio needs to be closer and ya need more gears to WORK in the power range . Now my truck does not do a lot of towing as it is primarily a service truck and the only real towing is pulling a fertilizer buggy with up to six ton or 11 4x4 round bales on the bale wagon . I have not pulled my gooseneck since 2001 . Now if i got my Jollys off working on cars and trucks like i use to there might have been a couple changes made to my Goat (1) atleast a 8 speed with a divorced NP 205 transfer case and a swap to a danna 60 with LOCK OUTS (2) a gear change in the rear ends to atleast a 3.73 -8. And(3) a better heater core . at one time i even kicked the idea around of a air ride suspension . But working on my own stuff does not pay the bills .

Last year I pulled around 10,000 frequently. This year it may be as high as 17,000 but it will usually be around 14,000. I am in the northeast.
I pull through flat areas and steep mountains. I guess I could find something to complain about but it pulls the loads well and impresses people every time.
 
Oh and if you think your 5 speed Cummins is less than ideal, just be glad its not an automatic.
In stock form you could get out and walk faster than it would pull 14,000lbs up a steep mountain grade non-highway, if its not in lockup.
 
Are you talking up to 17000 on the deck or total?? Eugene's truck and trailer empty is 16800 my truck as it sets now is 10450 full of fuel and nothing in the bed extra. Old Ford and goose neck was 15on the money full of fuel with all chains and binders. Then i would throw up to 31000 or so on the deck . Biggest load hauled was a 806D loaded with ft. weights rear weight and Cal . in the tires and duals and a 1066 loaded same way with duals . hauled it just fine till i hit the first hill on US 30 off I71 she almost made the top in third but i had to drop to second . also use to haul 27 round bales on my gooseneck . and i can tell you this that your 97 Dodge would not have kept up with the old Ford . At the stock setting or even turned up a little . I ran with guys that had New Dodge diesels back then and the old 460 would plum eat them alive . I would haul two tractors to the pulls and all the weights for the tractors to pull in two to three classes . We were down in Carrolton Ohio for a pull one day and only pulling two classes and that evening there was a pull in Lisbon that evening . Made the pull loaded up both tractors snagged them down put the ramps away and out the gate i went . I had the MM U and the S/MTA both at 7500 so 15 on the deck and a 15 lightweight total 30 grand . Not much get up and go room from the north gate to the first hill but i was running close to fifty when i came up on TW0 Dodges one a 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel with and M on a tandem and the one ton 4x4 being a 98 24 valve dragging the hill . The devil made me do it i did not pass them i smoked them took both of them and was GONE only to come up on another guy with a 97 3/4 ton Dodge diesel and him dragging on the hills . I had to wait till the rail road tracks to get him before the next hill due to traffic . And the one thing i never did with the ford was use over drive even with the empty trailer . I put 287000 miles of hard running on that truck hauling iron and never once had a transmission problem U/ Joints Yea one clutch due to the throw out bearing freezing up one ring and pinion due to the anti loc stator ring coming off the carrier and going thru the ring and pinion.
 
(quoted from post at 22:15:20 02/25/14) Are you talking up to 17000 on the deck or total?? Eugene's truck and trailer empty is 16800 my truck as it sets now is 10450 full of fuel and nothing in the bed extra. Old Ford and goose neck was 15on the money full of fuel with all chains and binders. Then i would throw up to 31000 or so on the deck . Biggest load hauled was a 806D loaded with ft. weights rear weight and Cal . in the tires and duals and a 1066 loaded same way with duals . hauled it just fine till i hit the first hill on US 30 off I71 she almost made the top in third but i had to drop to second . also use to haul 27 round bales on my gooseneck . and i can tell you this that your 97 Dodge would not have kept up with the old Ford . At the stock setting or even turned up a little . I ran with guys that had New Dodge diesels back then and the old 460 would plum eat them alive . I would haul two tractors to the pulls and all the weights for the tractors to pull in two to three classes . We were down in Carrolton Ohio for a pull one day and only pulling two classes and that evening there was a pull in Lisbon that evening . Made the pull loaded up both tractors snagged them down put the ramps away and out the gate i went . I had the MM U and the S/MTA both at 7500 so 15 on the deck and a 15 lightweight total 30 grand . Not much get up and go room from the north gate to the first hill but i was running close to fifty when i came up on TW0 Dodges one a 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel with and M on a tandem and the one ton 4x4 being a 98 24 valve dragging the hill . The devil made me do it i did not pass them i smoked them took both of them and was GONE only to come up on another guy with a 97 3/4 ton Dodge diesel and him dragging on the hills . I had to wait till the rail road tracks to get him before the next hill due to traffic . And the one thing i never did with the ford was use over drive even with the empty trailer . I put 287000 miles of hard running on that truck hauling iron and never once had a transmission problem U/ Joints Yea one clutch due to the throw out bearing freezing up one ring and pinion due to the anti loc stator ring coming off the carrier and going thru the ring and pinion.

Trailer has a GVW of 17000. Truck is 8800. Puts me at a max of 25800.
I cant really debate weather or not my Cummins would get outhauled by a 460 gas job but it sure would surprise me if it could.

If your buddy is blowing NV4500's because he's hauling 30,000 lbs then that doesnt surprise me. I would consider that a non-designed use as the NV4500 isnt designed to tow that much.
Its not even intended for what I tow but I feel confident in it for what I do.
 
I have 3.55 in my Dodge 5 speed. Getrag (spelling)
I think 3.00 would be better. But not pulling heavy. Use a Ford for that with 3.73.
 
I didn't buy my truck for fuel mileage, but that's just one of the side benefits of the VE44 pump, besides barely having to bump the starter to get it running.
I can't pencil out trading it off on something newer and make it work. For the miles I drive, and the reduction in fuel mileage, it would never save me anything.
 
(quoted from post at 17:05:48 02/26/14) If you want fuel mileage buy a Prius, I don't buy a truck for fuel mileage.

Some people have to put miles on their truck, not just sit in them in the back yard.
 
Mine definitely isn't sitting in a back yard, I wouldn't let it sit
outside for nothing.
 
(quoted from post at 15:09:04 02/27/14) So you'll let it set outside for something?

He lets it sit outside so that he can sit IN it. He's not old enough to have his license yet.
 
Man you must of saw me lol just kidding, no it stays in shed
because I want it to stay nice, my old one gets out a lot.
 
I'm a fan of the 3.73. I have 3.55 in my ford 7.3 and 4.10 in my dodge 07 5.9. The 3.55 just isn't geared low enough, but empty on the interstate I used to get 20MPG @75mph. My dodge gets 18mpg empty and 18@ 10k load. But I have to keep it at 64mph. Any hire and you would think there's a Hole in the tank.

I never leave 6th, cAm pull jellico mountain on I-75 with a 12k load and not lose a single MPH. I would be ok backing off a little for a 3.73 and getting a little better empty MPG.
 
i have 3.73 in a 04 f250 6.0psd, 4x4, no tuner

i have 4.10 in a 99 f350 7.3psd, 4x4, drw, no tuner

i have 4.88 in a 99 f450 7.3psd, 2x4, drw superchips flashpaq

no doubt about it, the 4.88 gets a load rolling EASY.. it just can't do over 75 without getting too close to yellow rpm.

the 3.73 has been fine for towing 7k and 10k loads all over, mountains and all.. go heavier, and you feel it.

the 4.10 for me seems to be the happy medium. I can still cruse interstate speeds with everyone else and not get too close for comfort to yellow rpm.. yet drags 12k like a half ton pulls 5k.

My only gripe? All the goodies are on the 450.. exhaust and intake upgrades, air bag suspension, top air scoop for towing taller loads, multi gauge cluster upgrades ( pyron , extra temps, etc.. ) upgraded ps cooler and trans cooler, rear end upgrade, auto xfer aux 50g fuel tank..e tc..

She's my go-to for towing non interstate.. :) if she had the 4.10 and was 4wd.. I'd be in heaven. :)
 
The question of which rear end ratio to get, is not a one all application.
While a V8 powerstroke and a V8 Dmax may shine with 4.11's or higher, a cummins, especially a 12 valve such as mine does not.
I can say that a Cummins gets its power at the lower RPM area. While the V8's may like to rev more, a straight 6 diesel is best operated at lower rpms, at least I think so.
3.55's work well in my truck. With the NV4500, I have a decently low 1st and have no problem getting my trailer going.
If I were towing 20,000+ I would probably want 4.11's though but for my trailer loads of 17,000 or less 3.55's work well with this Cummins.
 
My new Tow rig, an '08 F-350 with 6.4 powerstroke and a 6 spd. stick has a 3.73 gear. Stock setting on the ponies, too. I think you got to go to a 450 to get 4.10s? Anyway, I like to run about 60-65 if I'm on the interstate, And I don't like pulling loads in overdrive, so in direct (4th or 5th, depending on if you count low hole or not), I towed 12,000 and had plenty of power left all the way through the mountains on I75 from Knoxville to Toledo. Heck, I'd throw the 806 on the deck and be sitting with around 16,000 behind me and do it again without thinking twice... Can't say that about the old 6.5 chevy. :) -Andy
 
Pretend, you got any facts to back up those claims?

Very hard to find 4.11 in any Diesels now, they produce so much more torque than the earlier ones.
 
wonder if the SRW / DRW makes a difference.

my axle code chart is dated.. since my trucks are old ( 99 etc.. )
 
I'm wondering why anyone would want a lower geared rear end these days, everything has gobs of torque and power, so low gear not so important...

Had an old Landrover as a youngster... 4.71 rear end... pull anything, but try doing more than 55 mph with it... an that made the fuel milage suck too...

My preference is for 3.54 gears... so i'd take 3.73s as that is your question.
 
You can get new Ram 4500's and 5500's with 4.88 gearing. For that truck it is sometimes desired because your usually buying a truck like that to haul 30,000lbs. With the 6 speed Aisin, its not half bad at highway speeds either. Farmers like those 4.88 gears for hauling 15+ tons of hay.
 
I'd say if you drive it empty alot and haul less that 14,000# with a strong diesel and a manual, 3.55 is great. The 1995 F250 Powerstroke 5spd truck has 3.55 gears and I absolutely love them with 235 or 265 16" tires. I'd see the purpose of using 4.10 or 3.73 if using a 6000rpm gas engine, but the Powerstroke rarely gets over 2500rpm when I haul. The neighbor has a 1996 Dodge with the same setup. It works great. I had people telling me I'd kill my clutch and driveline hauling 14,000# without 4.10, but it's got almost 300,000 miles on it now. The 3.55 keeps my engine right at or slighly below the "sweet spot". 1500rpm @ 55mph and 2000rpm @ 70mph. I did haul 18,000# last fall and that was WAY too much to get going with my fast first gear.
 
Your 12-valve doesn't shine with the 4.10's because they only governed them to 2500. Put the proper governor spring(s) in for 3200 RPM redline and you'll make a whole different truck out of it.

For whatever reason they put an ag cam in the Cummins, it torque peaks about the same RPM as the Powerjoke and Dirtymax, but with a cam from Colt or Hamilton can get down to about a 1400 RPM torque peak.
 

I fix or modify to suit my needs. And so far, the mainly stock Cummins 12 valve pulls alot of weight, just fine for me.
Tuned up pump, 30psi boost.
 

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