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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

Dodge Transmission

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Steve@Advance

02-19-2014 21:13:08
107.203.134.67



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A coworker has a mid 90's Dodge 1500, 318 engine, auto trans.

He says the transmission is staying in high gear, will not shift, as in takes off in high, stays in high. It does have neutral and reverse. The converter is not locked. There is a code set, I don't know what the code is.

He's been told there is a problem with a solenoid valve inside the trans. I asked if he looked at the wire harness, said it was a mangled mess... So there's your problem. He was supposed to fix it this weekend, instead he took it to some transmission shop Monday.

They supposedly replaced a solenoid valve and the harness. It didn't change anything.

Now they want their money, "here's your still broke truck"...

I'll probably be the one to fix it, junk truck, he's struggling with a young wife and sick baby, hospital bills, etc.

Any ideas?

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ASEguy

02-22-2014 09:10:48
24.207.160.166



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
Yes it is in "limp-in" mode. You will have reverse and third. Limp-in is a fail safe so the transmission doesn't harm itself according to the inputs by the controller. Cycling the key should restore the proper function UNLESS the code resets immediately. Find out what the code is and repost. Too many codes to offer any opinions yet as to what to do. Could be as simple as a speed sensor. No real easy way except to follow flow charts. Shame on tranny shop for shotgunning parts. I would try to get money back especially for the poor diagnostic skills on that truck.

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David G

02-21-2014 08:29:03
204.29.138.33



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
How much money should you really put in a 20 year old truck?



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The tractor vet

02-25-2014 06:49:13
75.19.125.103



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to David G, 02-21-2014 08:29:03  
Well how much should you put into and OLD TRUCK. For me i can dump a LOT of money in mine and still come out ahead . Even though i can get a NEW one probably for a lot less then you can it would still cost more then i sank into a semi years ago . (1) my 95 is paid for . (2) i can work on it , (3) I do not have to buy any guppy GOO to add to it . So if i add in new rocker panels cab corners, and what ever else it needs sand blast the frame throw some paint on it and a couple sets of tires it should last me till they throw dirt in my face and it will be a low mileage 95 . Do i care that it is not then newest latest and greats nope i could care less .

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PretendFarmer

02-25-2014 08:48:18
192.249.47.208



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to The tractor vet, 02-25-2014 06:49:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I'm on the same page. My 97 has 103,000 miles on it, and plan for another 200,000 miles. It will need body work this summer though.



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PretendFarmer

02-21-2014 09:08:28
192.249.47.208



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to David G, 02-21-2014 08:29:03  
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I would say it depends on the truck. When it comes to my 97 Cummins 12 valve, any amount of money I dump into it is leaps and bounds cheaper than a new truck that would do the tasks I need.



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PretendFarmer

02-21-2014 04:22:59
192.249.47.207



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to goliver, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
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You can make an Allison 1000 work behind anything you want, if money isnt a concern. Adaptation costs in addition to the cost of the transmission itself suddenly make the cost to bulletproof your current Dodge transmission seem small.



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T in NE

02-21-2014 10:19:11
75.234.77.222



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-21-2014 04:22:59  
I added that as a side note. I didn't say it would be cost-effective. A guy did it with an 85 crew cab that he swapped a Cummins into. Said even with 3.07 gears, reverse was still SLOW!



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PretendFarmer

02-21-2014 10:45:25
192.249.47.208



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to T in NE, 02-21-2014 10:19:11  
I think having a slow reverse is good. My NV4500 reverse is somewhat slow but I wouldnt mind if it was much slower for backing up the gooseneck.

The NV5600 is an expensive transmission to repair and parts are getting harder to find. Try finding one to begin with.

Like I said, rebuilding a manual is usually cheaper especially if you factor how many miles you should get between overhauls, less maintenance intervals.

The NV5600 is one manual that is not cheaper to overhaul than a typical auto. But even then, get one with the hole drilled for better lubrication and your talking 400,000 mile overhauls.

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T in NE

02-21-2014 17:02:11
75.234.77.222



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-21-2014 10:45:25  
Every time I've had to back up a gooseneck with a manual I've pulled the truck down into low range first. I'm like you, slower reverse is better. Don't know why they can't put a slower reverse gear in something that is probably going to at some point have to go backwards with a trailer.
Probably so they can sell more clutches.



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The tractor vet

02-25-2014 13:34:01
75.19.125.103



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to T in NE, 02-21-2014 17:02:11  
Well all the people that use to complain about the SLOW rev. in the OLD four speed and FIVE speeds they must have thought that by makin it faster would be better to go backwards quicker . The OLD four speed truck transmissions were just fine for backing a trailer with out slipping the clutch . The only down fall was they plum sucked for plowing snow when you needed a little speed when backing up. And they did not have a scycro first , so we got to make them better for the other people me need to put scycro's on first and rev. and make rev faster for them people that are in a hurry . Since they are for the most part going to the store with there crew cab diesel dulleys with leather heated seats with plush carpeting and power this and that . what ever happened to plain Jane rubber floor mats vinyl seats ?? truck gets dirty inside open both doors and turn the garden hose loose on the inside then blow gun the excess water out . Now i have a Dodge and it is sorta a plain jane but has cloth seats but i can still clean the rubber floor mat with the garden hose . But let me go on a service call to a dairy farm and have to go fix a skid steer in the freestall barn and my seats smell like the barn for a couple months .

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495man

02-26-2014 13:24:52
24.137.107.69



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to The tractor vet, 02-25-2014 13:34:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The 6-speeds seem geared ok in reverse, but I do use low range for tight quarters, mainly to keep the RPM's up for power steering speed.
1/2 ton 5-speeds are useless for any real work. 3/4 and 1 ton 5-speeds seem better.
The whole lack of manual this and rubber that is the general pickup buying population was more focused on car like qualities as opposed to working items.
I do not like my carpet floor. Fun keeping manure and mud off of it despite rubber floor mats on top.

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PretendFarmer

02-21-2014 04:21:18
192.249.47.207



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to goliver, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
I perfer swapping in manual transmissions. No computers, wires or switches to worry about. You get "lockup" in every gear.

Medium duty Allison is not a bad way to go. But in a Dodge truck, there are adaptations that need to be made.
When I weighed all options, swapping in an NV4500 was the best cost effective option to make my truck a good, reliable tow rig.



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jimg.allentown

02-21-2014 05:08:43
98.115.105.174



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-21-2014 04:21:18  
Well, some prefer stick, and some prefer automatic. All you need to do is drive across Brooklyn with a 9-speed RoadRanger once or twice, and you will be cured of the stick shift. BTDT! Now, I don't drive stick shift unless I am getting PAID for it.

Now for a few pros and cons:
Automatics NEVER miss a shift. There is no way that a human can shift as quickly and accurately as an automatic - especially when climbing a hill and needing a downshift as the engine is lugging down.
Automatics NEVER have to guess what gear to use next as you come out of a turn in town.
Clutches cost a LOT of money to replace.
Contrary to popular belief, manual transmissions DO wear out. And, the internal parts are very expensive. A single gear can cost over $400. A sliding clutch is usually in the $200-$300 range. Bearings are usually in the $60-$75 range. Labor and special tool costs to O/H a stick are high.

Overall, both types of transmissions can be very expensive to repair. Personal preference does come into play. Today's automatics are very dependable and efficient.

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PretendFarmer

02-21-2014 07:32:57
192.249.47.208



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to jimg.allentown, 02-21-2014 05:08:43  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Your forming your arguement in a way such as to convince one's self not do something. Your choosing not to drive a stick is fine and all but dont fool yourself.

The cost to overhaul an auto is more expensive. There are exceptions.

Example: the overhaul cost to pay someone to do my 5 speed, in a worst case scenario from (probably) the most recommended shop in the country was $1600.

To pay anyone to overhaul the auto that was once there starts at that cost not counting a converter.

Clutches are very expensive.....if you get one that holds 1000ft-lbs

The one in my truck rated for 600ft-lbs was only $300.

Manuals require more skill to drive. But used as designed, theres no reason why you cant get 400,000 miles out of a typical manual trans.

I can shape an arguement to make auto's look as bad as your making manuals look.

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jimg.allentown

02-22-2014 12:06:02
98.115.105.174



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-21-2014 07:32:57  
Typically, my cost to overhaul an automatic will vary with the transmission, but in general, a complete overhaul kit usually costs me in the vicinity of $300. Some are more, most are less. Adding in the cost of a rebuilt converter at about another $300 and I am up to $600 average plus oil. Hard parts are sometimes another factor, BUT I can usually buy a jumkyard trans (as-is and pulled) for about $80. Even so, a NEW gearset runs in the $300-400 range for most units, and drums average about $75 each.

Overall, I can properly overhaul the average automatic for about $750 for a first class job.

I do know all about the skill required to handle a stick shift. I drove big trucks for 21 years in a combination of OTR and local peddle. In a big truck, I would not give 2 cents for an automatic. In a 4-wheeler or 6-wheeler, the opposite.

Regardless: Automatics are smoother. That is simply a fact of life whether you agree or not. Never had one stall on takeoff. Never had one miss a gear or grind.

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PretendFarmer

02-23-2014 16:29:26
70.188.162.137



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to jimg.allentown, 02-22-2014 12:06:02  

jimg.allentown said: (quoted from post at 21:06:02 02/22/14) Typically, my cost to overhaul an automatic will vary with the transmission, but in general, a complete overhaul kit usually costs me in the vicinity of $300. Some are more, most are less. Adding in the cost of a rebuilt converter at about another $300 and I am up to $600 average plus oil. Hard parts are sometimes another factor, BUT I can usually buy a jumkyard trans (as-is and pulled) for about $80. Even so, a NEW gearset runs in the $300-400 range for most units, and drums average about $75 each.
Overall, I can properly overhaul the average automatic for about $750 for a first class job.
I do know all about the skill required to handle a stick shift. I drove big trucks for 21 years in a combination of OTR and local peddle. In a big truck, I would not give 2 cents for an automatic. In a 4-wheeler or 6-wheeler, the opposite.
Regardless: Automatics are smoother. That is simply a fact of life whether you agree or not. Never had one stall on takeoff. Never had one miss a gear or grind.


Yes autos never miss a shift. Your prices on transmission parts are for stock parts, at least for a Dodge 47re or 48re. If I was going to overhaul that transmission, theres no way I would go with a stock sloppy converter. At least $500 for a decent converter. When I compare my truck, the answer is easy. IT had an automatic. The auto was upgraded. This improved reliability and towing. It has been swapped for an NV4500 and its like night and day. Tows way better with significantly less engine effort.

When I compare my truck the way it is now, with a manual, to what it was, an automatic, the truck was a DOG compared to how well it tows now.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 16:31:59 02/23/14.

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G1355

02-23-2014 18:43:56
67.224.60.152



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-23-2014 16:29:26  
I don't know what to tell you but come time there will be no more manual, look at how semis have changed and how pickups only dodge offers it, in time it will be all automatic whether we like it or not, not saying I don't like the manual, but an automatic anyone can drive and that's the way it will be whether you wanna believe it or not.



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massey333

02-25-2014 06:52:03
209.173.189.232



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to G1355, 02-23-2014 18:43:56  
Can't speak for GM,but Ford still offers a standard shift for EXPORT ONLY.EPA



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495man

02-25-2014 12:58:18
24.137.107.69



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to massey333, 02-25-2014 06:52:03  
6.2 Gas with a Tremec 5-speed for Brazil.
Don't think Ford offers 6.7 with manual in any market.



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T in NE

02-21-2014 10:13:19
75.234.77.222



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-21-2014 07:32:57  
The NV5600 can be real expensive to rebuild. If you can find the parts for it.



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ss55

02-20-2014 19:12:16
50.81.112.224



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
He could try shifting through the gears manually.



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smallercrawler

02-20-2014 13:46:11
166.82.254.181



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
Throttle valve cable loose/stretched/misadjusted?



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PretendFarmer

02-20-2014 04:43:45
192.249.47.207



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 02-19-2014 21:13:08  
I assume by mid 90's you mean 1995. IT really matters what year exactly as 1994-95 Ram 1500's had an Hydraulic controlled tranny with electronic overdrive and converter lockup (46RH)

96+ had full electronic-hydraulic. Meaning essentially the governor is hydraulic and controlled electronically which triggers shifting-when and how.(46RE)

If its stuck in 3rd with a 96+ it could be bad wiring from the PCM. If you unplug the wire completely, it will always start off in 3rd if you put it in drive, thats called limp mode.

If its not wiring it could be a malfunctioning governor pressure solenoid. They fail often on Dodge trannys. A good upgrade is a GM solenoid kit or a quality Borg Warner HD solenoid.

What year exactly? Is it a V8? V6? Need specifics.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 06:47:20 02/20/14.

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Steve@Advance

02-20-2014 05:14:20
108.245.66.82



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-20-2014 04:43:45  
Thanks Ken. I was trying to put this story together from hearsay and guess work. I just got to work and talked to him, found out it's a 2000, not a 90's, V8.

Sounds exactly like you described, loss of power to the solenoid causing it to start off in 3rd.

Since the solenoid and wire harness have been supposedly replaced, and the wiring harness was damaged, is it possible the PCM was damaged? Is there a fuse? A reset needed to get it out of limp mode?

Thanks, Steve

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ASEguy

02-22-2014 09:14:10
24.207.160.166



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-20-2014 05:14:20  
Anything is possible but probably not and No and see above post. The PCM shuts off power to control the transmission, hence the reset.



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jimg.allentown

02-20-2014 05:40:37
98.115.105.174



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to Steve@Advance, 02-20-2014 05:14:20  
I have found that on Chrysler transmissions, erasing the trans codes will usually cause it to start in first as it should, and shift through the gears - at least once. That is, until it encounters an error, in which case it will go directly into limp mode.

My experience with the truck transmissions is limited. I have done much more with the A604s. BUT, if this has the 318 (5.2) engine, it likely would use the 42RLE transmission, which is internally the same as the A604 minus the final drive.

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PretendFarmer

02-20-2014 06:43:44
192.249.47.207



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to jimg.allentown, 02-20-2014 05:40:37  
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318 and 360's use 46RH while the 3.9L V6 uses the 42RE 1996-2002.

If by final drive you mean the overdrive section, then yes. These transmissions are 727 variations with an overdrive unit bolted onto it. Valve bodies are all the same except for a few minor differences between each. (V8, Diesel)



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jimg.allentown

02-20-2014 07:14:16
98.115.105.174



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-20-2014 06:43:44  
By final drive, I mean the parts that would have made up the rear axle/differential in a rear wheel drive vehicle. The basic trans is made up of two units internally - the input assembly and the rear unit. Input consists of a set of 3 clutches with a push/pull piston to give overdrive, underdrive, and reverse functions. The rear unit consists of a low/reverse clutch and the 2/4 clutch. This is similar through the 42 series transmissions and their derrivatives. The A604 adds a differential, ring and pinion, and a transfer shaft to the unit to accomodate front wheel drive. The 727 is a very strong and reliable unit. It was from an era when cars typically weighed in over 2 tons, and had 400+ V-8 engines. Alond with this were the Ford C-6 upon which the E4OD is derrived, and the GM THM400 which became the 4L80. Currently, new offerings are using up to 8 speeds in the automatics. Dependability is yet to be seen. Some of the newer units have even eliminated the oil check/fill tube. Not a good idea IMHO.

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T in NE

02-20-2014 11:05:41
75.234.208.31



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to jimg.allentown, 02-20-2014 07:14:16  
A518, 47rh/re, 48re are based on the 727, essentially a 727 with lock-up converter (except the 518) and OD bolted on to the back. A500, 42/46's were based on the 904, as was the 3 speed from the Neon.

The 904 and 727 are identical as far as design and function, except the 904 uses lighter-duty parts.

Diesel guys say the 518 was not available with a lock-up converter, I can't say though as they had both small-block and diesel versions of it.

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PretendFarmer

02-20-2014 12:12:29
192.249.47.207



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to T in NE, 02-20-2014 11:05:41  
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I do believe thats correct. I visit the 1st gen section on Cumminsforum and a common upgrade for them is a very low stall converter to make up for non lockup.



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T in NE

02-20-2014 15:23:02
75.234.208.31



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to PretendFarmer, 02-20-2014 12:12:29  
Only thing is I don't know if the small-block 518's could have had lock-up or not. Goerend will make a non-lock-up converter that's tight enough you can engine brake against it.
And with a handful of pipe fittings and a couple pressure switches you can swap in a 47RH and have lock-up and OD without having to turn it on and off every time it needs to shift.



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jimg.allentown

02-20-2014 16:28:55
98.115.105.174



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to T in NE, 02-20-2014 15:23:02  
So why not use the 47RH trans CPU?? One peculiar thing about Chrysler products is that they use a seperate CPU for each function. One for the engine, one for the trans, one for the body functions, another for ABS....and on and on. I don't see why one couldn't use the matching processor for the transmission - unless there is some incompatibility with the engine unit. I do know that the engine computer is the one that signals the trans controller to initiate lockups and some of the shifting functions that are based on engine loading. Last time I looked, the average Chrysler product had as many as 10 computers in it.

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T in NE

02-20-2014 23:47:47
75.234.208.31



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 Re: Dodge Transmission in reply to jimg.allentown, 02-20-2014 16:28:55  
The computer in a factory A518 (pre-94 auto OD) truck could run the OD, but not the lock-up. The transmission has one power wire and 2 grounds, the computer switches on the ground side of the circuit. You would need a stand-alone controller, the pressure switches, or a switch inside to manually engage the lock-up. On a factory manual-trans truck, or 3-speed equipped truck, you would need some way to control both.

There are stand-alone controllers that only require tach and TPS. But the pressure switches are a lot cheaper and accomplish the same thing.

Side note:
You can make the Allison 1000 work behind another engine, the trick is to use one out of a medium-duty application. Since they had the Duramax or a Cat engine available in it, it picked up tach off an internal sensor instead of the engine computer.

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