Truck trailer info needed

glenliz87

Member
Hi everyone! I am looking for some advice. I bought a new Sure Trac 20 + 5 7000 lb tri-axle gooseneck trailer this past fall. I am presently pulling it with a 1980 F-350 dually with a 400 gas engine & 4 speed trans. This trailer weighs just under 6000 lbs empty according to specs. I can really feel this trailer behind me empty. I hauled my IH 706 home with it in the fall & my truck sure felt that load. My question is, would I gain anything by purchasing another 1 ton with a diesel engine or do I need a bigger truck? I will be hauling 5x6 round hardcore bales and would like to know if I have enough power or need more. I figure I should get 14 bales on the trailer however, I don"t have to take a full load. The bales weigh approx. 1000 - 1200 lbs. I don"t have to haul any further than 30 miles or so. Any info & advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
 
Lets see if I have this correct.

empty trailer. 6000 lb
14 hay bales @ 1000 each. 14000 lb
20,000lbs

1980 F350. Could you safly stop 20,000lbs with that truck?


That is a question YOU. must answer.
 
at a minimum I'd get a 94.5/95 ford with the 7.3 IDI and ats turbo... ( the pre 94.5 7.3 NA is a fine engine.. just with no turbo.. it won't breathe well.. hiway speeds and hills will eat you up falling all over itself to come up to speed ).. otherwise a 7.3psd would be my direct 1st choice.

I pull similar loads on a similar sized trailer. i picked up hay in september and am pretty sure I had 12-14 bales on her .. was using 99 7.3psd dually.
 
Well, between gears, good brakes on my truck, good brakes on all axles on my trailer, I am confident I can safely stop. But on the other hand, if someone cuts me off then probably not. You did however, bring up a very important point which I totally agree with. I do not pull the trailer in the winter months where roads can be slippery so that helps. I can always take a smaller load just to be safe.
 
My neighbor had about the same setup as you and same trouble. He put in a two speed rear out of an old grain truck and front axle(2wd pickup) and now swears by it. Seems like he did a body lift also to fit the tires. If you could find a two speed divorced drive it may make all the difference in the world. My opinion is free and that's just what it's worth....nothing.
 
Of course you can get along with this rig. A newer more powerful truck will just pull the hills faster, but won't handle the load any better. I haul almost the same load on just a 2 axle trailer and a srw F250 with a 5.4 gas motor. I just go 55 to 60. pulls it good. but wouldn't if you wanted to go 75.
 
Not sure how much or how often you use this setup, but you may need to look at going to a 2 ton truck set up.

I have bought and sold several 2 tons in the last 10 years. You could possible pick one up reasonable. I know timing is everything but I recently bought a one owner 93 GMC 7500 with 427 motor 5 speed and split axle with less than 60,000 miles.

You would have plenty of power(not tremendous speed), plenty of brakes, and it would be much steadier pulling your setup.
 
I would find a 429 LIMA engine out of a bigger F or L series. It ll bolt up and you will have the necessary chooch required without emptying your wallet. My 2 cents.When your done, what would you take for the 400(F100 stepside project of mine).
 
Thank you everyone for your info, I greatly appreciate it.
mattwillson: I will keep my eyes open for a bigger engine like you specified. Either that or a diesel truck, whichever opportunity comes up for the best deal I suppose. As for my 400, I don"t really know what it would be worth, I would be open to offers.

Justanothercase: I wouldn"t say that your opinion is worth nothing. That is a good idea you have there, I will look into that option as well.

soundguy: I wasn"t a fan of the older 7.3 diesels but then, this was back in the late 80"s models. I am hearing good things about them lately though. There is a 1997 F350 for sale not far from me with a 7.3 & turbo. I will have to look into this one as well.

JWalker: The idea about a 2 ton truck is also a good one. I have been looking for one for the past couple of months with no success. I do agree that it would have plenty of power & stability. I don"t care much about speed, power & stability as well as being able to stop are my major concerns. I will not be using the trailer much hauling
bales, maybe just a few times during haying season. Other than that, I just use it for lighter loads such as moving around my skid steer, but then again, I have a car hauler that I move my skid steer on as well.
 
I have a 27 plus 5 (32ft) dual wheel tandem axle gooseneck that I pull with a 2002 F350 dually w/7.3 powerstroke. 6spd manual & 4.10 rear. My empty weight is 15,000. I seldom have less than 10,000# on the trailer for a GVR of 25K. I would not want to go up and down Pikes Peak with it; but; in the hills of Kentucky it does fine. I can run 75plus mph on the interstate if I want. NO PROBLEM!!! So---- a 1 ton truck geared and powered right WILL do what you need to do. My trlr. has the big brakes and will lock down if I set the controller high. I have also run several 460 gas engines w/4.10 rear. The gas will not pull with my 7.3; but will do an admirable job for your short haul. Just be sure you are not geared too high with a gas.
 
Some may flame me for this, but everyone has a right to his/her opinion.
I have read your post half a dozen times, but still must be missing something here. Just trying to be realistic.
14 bales @ 1200# = 16800, plus 6000 for the trailer & 6000 or 7000 for the truck makes way over 26000#, quite a load for such a small truck.
I acknowledge that small trucks are made stronger now than they were 30+ years ago. A GM 30 series of that vintage is comparable to a Ford 350. In 97 a GM 3500 was rated to handle 15000# max trailer load, so back in 80 I am sure ratings were a bit lower. Check the rating sticker on your truck, also check rating on trailer. If the combo rating totals over 26000 it puts you in the class A license group, whether or not you actually load that heavy.
JWalker has the best idea, you need a bigger truck.
You mention a 30 mile haul. Personally, I would not go more than 30 feet with that load on such a small truck. It looks to me like a bad wreck looking for a place to happen. When it does happen, & it will, insurance might pay the claim, but will cancel future coverage. With that black mark on your record insurance premiums will skyrocket.
Yes, I see people do it, but the tail is wagging the dog all over the road.
Willie
 
All i can say about a 400 Ford engine is it is a good boat anchor for a cabin cruiser and you start working it hard and it will drop kick you so fast your head will spin . Poor bottom end in those engines and NO POWER . I use to run a 88 F350 4x4 and pulled a 28 footer with a 460 gasser . For some reason it would flat out and run and i hauled many over loads with it . That truck got the bag run off of it to the point that i was running so many miles a week that it got two oil changes a week at times . we make 4x4 bales and i would load 27 bales at a time on it and drag them about ten miles . My only worry was the brakes as all it would take is a short or a wire break off someplace and you had no brakes and the brakes on that Ford were iffy at best . If you were pulling on a day when the temps were over 80 degrees and on a long hard pull the heat from the left exhaust would heat nad boil the brake fluid out of the anti loc control valve and push it back up to the master cylinder and when you stepped down the brake pedal it went to the floor and you had NO brakes on the truck . This happened twice to me before that fancy valve was removed and throwen into the weeds and a double heat sheild placed over the brake lines . Electric brakes are the one thing i do not trust . It does not matter how fast you can pull a load it is how well you can STOP the load. My buddy and i have been going over this vary same debate as now we are making hay at two away farms and getting the hay back to the main farm is getting to be a hassle I am thinking about finding a older step deck and and older Mack or Louieville Ford day cab with a twin screw to start with . and we can built from there as we also need a better way of hauling silage on the road other then silage wagons from the away fields . It is not so much that tractors can't get the job done but the fact that people in cars are plum Nuts and this includes COPS . Last fall while chopping corn one of the guys had a vary close call with a sheriff’s deputy , he had slowed down to make a left turn on to s little township road to head back to the fields we were chopping in and the tractor was alrady half way into the oncoming lane when this deputy came around him and brushed the left ft. tire and down thru the ditch up the bank down the bank back into the road fishtalling and gone , no lights on no siren just flat out and flying passing on a double yellow line at and intersection and leaving pieces and part of the cruiser scattered about . one second later and he would have tee boned that 2255 Oliver . You can find nice older C 65 Chevey's Ford 600-750's L7000-8000 and I H 1601850'and S 4200-4700 pretty easy and for a lot less then a newer one ton. I have seen a lot of decent older road tractors for less then a one ton . Yea you will have to play the game with all the B/S but if your only going a few miles several times a year so what . Just make sure your outfit is in top notch condition . myself i would prefer air brakes anyday over a juice electric set up .
 
mmfan55: thanks for your info. I don"t know the gear ratio on my truck but it is not fast at all. It has lots of pulling power in 1st & 2nd, but then quite a power loss in 3rd & 4th. This was only when I was pulling my skid steer. Empty, seems like I can use another gear as going down the highway in 4th, the rpm"s appear to be too high. No way to tell exactly without a tach. Clutch is not slipping. This is why I was debating on a bigger truck or a diesel 1 ton.

willie in mn: Thanks for your info. You brought up something that I totally forgot about. That was to include the weight of the truck. I will have to check my truck gvwr. My trailer"s rating is 21000 lbs, so I"m sure it would be around the 26000 lb mark in total. I agree with your statement "quite a load for such a small truck." I don"t have to haul 14 bales, I can cut that back to 10. A lot safer that way. I will try and find a bigger truck in the meantime. Thank you everyone again for your responses.
 
Just another note then I will leave you alone. A lot has changed since 1980. If you do not need this unit as a "daily driver"; the bigger truck is a better and more economical way to go. I was assuming (do not know why) that you would use this as a multi-purpose. Not just a hauler. Gets a bit hard to park an F700 at the "coffee shop".
 
To stay under 26,000 pounds with a trailer rated for 21,000 pounds, you need to find a tow vehicle that weighs less than 5000 pounds. That may be difficult to find.

Because you cannot load your present trailer to full capacity anyway, would you be happier with a lighter trailer? Say a trailer with 2/3rds the rating that weighs 4000 pounds and is rated for 14,000 pounds. It would still let you haul up to 10,000 pounds with less strain on your present truck.
 
All comments are good points. I would add that even though it's a new trailer, It might be worthwhile to check the wheel/axle alignment. A friend of mine had an older 3 axle trailer that had the same complaints as you plus it would eat tires fast. He had it professionally aligned and it made a totally different trailer out of it. I agree that you're pushing the load limit on the truck with the hay, but it should handle the skid steer or empty trailer without too much trouble.
 
mmfan55: You assumption is correct, I use the truck daily in the summer months only. I carry my slip tank, tools, oil, etc. for farm use so I was hoping to use the same truck to haul some hay if possible. Likely not a good idea considering the weight I carry on it regularly.

The tractor vet: You are definitely right, I start to work the truck hard and the power quickly disappears. At least the brakes on my truck and trailer all work perfectly but, as you said, it only takes one broken wire or a short on the trailer. I agree.

ss55: You make a good point suggesting a smaller trailer. My original plan was to buy a 7000 lb tandem axle trailer. According to the sticker on the trailers I have seen, the total weight rating was 14000 lbs (obviously) and just a little over 8000 lbs (give or take 200 lbs) I can safely haul, not much. These ratings were on a 20 + 5 trailer. This is why I bought a tri-axle to handle more weight. Price between the two was the same. Of course, I did not check many manufacturers as there are only a few in my area. Maybe in the spring I will trade it in for a tandem axle and haul a smaller load.

Cliff Nelson: You make a good point to check the wheel/axle alignment, I likely wouldn"t have thought of that since it"s a new trailer. Otherwise, the truck handles the trailer good empty and with the skid steer. It even handled it good with my 706 on it but I can feel that the truck had a workout. However, this was on a gravel road if that makes a difference.
 

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