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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge

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Mopower

11-21-2013 15:14:49
64.208.152.149



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I've heard the 5spd had a few issues. I think my buddies got stuck in third once. Something wears out and needs replacing and deals with the shifting. Can anyone tell me what the weak point is, the replacement part, or even what tranny I have? Yes, there's a Cummins on it.




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PretendFarmer

02-10-2014 09:24:43
192.249.47.180



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to J.Wondergem, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  

varmint said: (quoted from post at 00:03:17 02/08/14)
PretendFarmer said: (quoted from post at 09:33:05 11/26/13) G56 is the newest 6 speed used in new Dodges. It is the most durable stick shift used in a Cummins pickup from the factory. It is a Mercedes transmission.

Anyways, the Getrag was known for its unreliability. Thats just the way it is. NV4500 is more reliable but it does have that 5th gear nut issue which is not hard to fix.

The NV5600 is rated for more power than the NV4500 but parts are much more expensive and plenty of problems were reported even at stock power levels.
Now they run the G56 and its the "cat's meow".

Aisin automatics are rated for far more power than even the G56, 850ft-lbs vs 660 ft-lbs and some years were 600ft-lbs.

They say the new Aisin can handle up to 950ft-lbs. The 68RFE could handle more than the manual as well.

There are plenty of people out there who have had no issues with any of the stick shifts. The most common misconception is that the manual transmissions are more reliable than automatics. Mild upgrading with a good torque converter makes an automatic way more durable than the manual.

If you interested in any kind of upgrades to your 1st gen with a Getrag, you should consider just dropping in the NV4500. Very common, relatively cheap and will hold more power than what its rated for so long as you dont drive like an idiot.


what are you basing all of that information and recommending on ? everything i have seen and heard is just the oposite that 'cats meow' was more like a mashed cat losing its guts have not heard of near the problems with new venture trannys like I have with the get-rags what about that dual disk clutch tht slips with a heavy load and a head wind? it is another daimler great idea


What I have heard is what I have heard.

I currently have a NV4500 5 speed in. I chose this trans because of its overall reliability and cost effectiveness for what I do.

G56 tranny's are very reliable under reasonable power.

The NV5600's did have problems even at stock power levels but I do believe that a hole drilled provides lubricant to solve that.

You hear what you hear, and I do as well.

Oh and if you are interested, Dieselhub.com has excellent transmission writeups under the transtech tab.

EDIT: If you are confusing the Getrag (G360) with the G56, they are two completely different transmissions.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 09:28:12 02/10/14 2 times.

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PretendFarmer

12-18-2013 04:42:53
192.249.47.207



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to DeltaRed, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  

8v92guy said: (quoted from post at 03:15:11 12/17/13) A Allison out of a medium duty truck is defiantly stronger than a dodge trans. It is also not that expensive to do a conversion just converted a 97 12valve to gm turbo 400. $900 for bell housing and flexplate. $300 for used trans would have used alission but space is an issue on this application its in a 74 IH one ton.


An Allison is stronger and it has more "gears". But after you figure the cost of the computer to control the trans, adapter, crossmember modifications(maybe), driveshaft modifications and any special adaptation costs for a transfer case to bolt up(if you have 4wd)... I would figure if you got a steal you could get that stuff at $1000

Then the cost of the trans at somewhere around $2000.

Early 2000's Allisons were rated at around 500 ft-lbs of input so it wouldnt handle much over stock power. So then there's the cost of aftermarket to beef it up.

Thats the way I looked at it. Doing the work myself, for way less than $3000 I can get a pretty mean 47re. Right now it holds 525 ft-lbs no problem.

The later Allisons had 6 speeds and could handle big power. But then so could the new 6 speed trannys behind the new dodges.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 04:47:29 12/18/13 2 times.

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PretendFarmer

12-17-2013 04:30:14
192.249.47.207



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to D1206, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
That transmission (stock) is rated for 450 ft-lbs of input. The stock 47re is also rated for that however I would personally rate the 400 at a higher level of dependablility. All that changes with aftermarket parts.

In your case, that might be the way I would go but I would need a transmission that had overdrive.

In a case such as mine where I have a Dodge truck, beefing up the stock tranny made so much more sense financially than any other option.

How are you going to address only having 3 speeds now? In my 97 Cummins, I consider overdrive a necessity. I would easily hit defueling RPM's without it. I could put in a governor spring kit and 60# exhaust valves to raise that defueling RPM but I suspect I would be hitting 3000 rpm's at 70mph or so with a 3 speed.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 07:15:16 12/17/13 3 times.

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8v92guy

12-16-2013 18:15:11
72.70.229.190



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
A Allison out of a medium duty truck is defiantly stronger than a dodge trans. It is also not that expensive to do a conversion just converted a 97 12valve to gm turbo 400. $900 for bell housing and flexplate. $300 for used trans would have used alission but space is an issue on this application its in a 74 IH one ton.



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PretendFarmer

12-16-2013 05:43:36
192.249.47.207



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to caterpillar guy, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Any adaptation will cost more money to put in another brand's vehicle than simply upgrading within brand specific components.
In other words, he could take out the 5 speed, and put a Dodge automatic in there, built to the hilt alot cheaper than adapting the Allison in there.
Allisons are overrated and do not hold up to power enhancements any more than Dodge transmissions do.

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Matt L

12-07-2013 18:23:43
50.52.30.243



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
The getrag isnt a bad trans if its taken care of and not trying to live behind 400whp.
When they start having issues its best to have em rebuilt. The pocket bearing goes bad and kills the shafts, Shift forks seem to get chewed up too.

nv 4500's need a replacement shaft to fully get rid of the 5th gear nut problems.

5600's hold up to more power then a g56- if they are over filled

We've had a string of g56's lately that have been having all kinds of failures. 56's dont like massive power. The case starts flexing and nothing lines up.

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hgkajk123

12-07-2013 00:11:52
199.83.92.69



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
I've heard the 5spd had a few issues. :)

http://www.oop-ack.com/
This post was edited by hgkajk123 at 00:46:33 12/07/13 2 times.



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PretendFarmer

12-02-2013 06:45:01
192.249.47.207



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to rustyfarmall, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
While you may or may not disagree, the money, time and effort required to put an allison behind a Cummins IS ultimately far more than building up the current tranny that is there, in terms of an automatic.

For example, it would cost me thousands to drop my 47re for even an Allison 1000. I would need the transmission, adapter plate, flex plate, converter, harness, custom shafts, just to start . I would be left with less torque capacity. Why? because a mildly modified 47re holds more torque than a stock Allison 1000.
Now if your starting from scratch, then maybe the Allison might be the way to go. But again, you'll be spending thousands of dollars more to get that transmission to do what a beefed up 47re will do.
My personal example is this: My modified cummins 12 valve puts out about 250hp@2500 rpms and 525ft-lbs@ 1600rpms. To get my stock 47re built to the level to hold more power than that was about $1200, work done myself. (Performance/towing valve body, a few beefy internals, and a Billet low stall converter)

One of the biggest misconceptions around is that a stock Allison is built for anything more than stock power.

There is a reason why there is a conversion kit to put a 47re/48re behind a Duramax. The Dodge trannys are the easiest and cheapest to build, by far.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 06:58:08 12/02/13 4 times.

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PretendFarmer

11-26-2013 08:33:05
192.249.47.207



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
G56 is the newest 6 speed used in new Dodges. It is the most durable stick shift used in a Cummins pickup from the factory. It is a Mercedes transmission.

Anyways, the Getrag was known for its unreliability. Thats just the way it is. NV4500 is more reliable but it does have that 5th gear nut issue which is not hard to fix.

The NV5600 is rated for more power than the NV4500 but parts are much more expensive and plenty of problems were reported even at stock power levels.
Now they run the G56 and its the "cat's meow".

Aisin automatics are rated for far more power than even the G56, 850ft-lbs vs 660 ft-lbs and some years were 600ft-lbs.

They say the new Aisin can handle up to 950ft-lbs. The 68RFE could handle more than the manual as well.

There are plenty of people out there who have had no issues with any of the stick shifts. The most common misconception is that the manual transmissions are more reliable than automatics. Mild upgrading with a good torque converter makes an automatic way more durable than the manual.

If you interested in any kind of upgrades to your 1st gen with a Getrag, you should consider just dropping in the NV4500. Very common, relatively cheap and will hold more power than what its rated for so long as you dont drive like an idiot.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 08:45:33 11/26/13 3 times.

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varmint

02-07-2014 15:03:17
216.237.70.109



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to PretendFarmer, 11-26-2013 08:33:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

what are you basing all of that information and recommending on ? everything i have seen and heard is just the oposite that 'cats meow' was more like a mashed cat losing its guts have not heard of near the problems with new venture trannys like I have with the get-rags what about that dual disk clutch tht slips with a heavy load and a head wind? it is another daimler great idea

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T in NE

11-30-2013 15:42:17
75.234.51.86



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to PretendFarmer, 11-26-2013 08:33:05  
There are several heavy-duty transmissions that can be made to fit as well. Or you can use an Allison:



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T in NE

12-14-2013 16:35:19
75.234.65.154



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to T in NE, 11-30-2013 15:42:17  
There's a guy who figured out that if you use an Allison out of a medium-duty application (4500-up), due to some of them being available with a cat, they have three speed sensors, so the only signal you need is TPS, and a way to convert the signal from the output to something the odometer can read.



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smallercrawler

11-22-2013 07:50:33
166.82.254.181



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
www.dieseltruckresource.com will have a lot of good help on your truck.

T in NE: Sorry, didn't see your previous link to DTR.
This post was edited by smallercrawler at 07:54:44 11/22/13 2 times.



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T in NE

11-21-2013 15:26:27
75.238.118.43



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
Getrag, I can't think if the number, want to say G56 but I don't think that's right. Swapping in an NV4500 (second-gen 5-speed) is fairly common, and the NV5600 (found behind the hi-output 24-valves) will easily bolt in, just need to change a few other parts as well.

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jdemaris

11-21-2013 15:21:51
70.194.4.150



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to Mopower, 11-21-2013 15:14:49  
1988 to 1993 Dodge-Cummins with a 5 speed have a German Getrag. 1994 and up 5 speeds have a New Venture 4500.

My 1992 have over 300K miles and no problems with the trans other then a little pin in that the shift locates in. I fixed it for $20.

I used to hear warnings about 5th gear having a lock-nut fall off. First I heard it about the Getrag and later I heard it about the NV4500. ???

I've had no problems. I was advised years ago to run the trans 1 quart over-full which I've always done. Can't say it helped anything but can say for sure it didn't hurt anything.

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VicS

11-21-2013 19:02:39
70.195.67.182



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 Re: 5spd in the 1989 Ton Dodge in reply to jdemaris, 11-21-2013 15:21:51  
I have a 91. Changed the trans oil to synthetic, and filled 1 quart over at least. No problems, but don't pull heavy trailers with it just drive around local.



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