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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle.

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soundguy

06-29-2013 18:16:14
108.112.204.175



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just the opposite here..

i tried for years to justify gas and 'get by' .

got diesel now. will never look back...




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G1355

06-29-2013 19:40:52
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 06-29-2013 18:16:14  
Got diesels for work. I get better mileage with my hemi unloaded, and within 1.5 mpg pulling really heavy loads. And the gas as way quicker



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soundguy

07-01-2013 06:02:26
108.112.219.139



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 06-29-2013 19:40:52  
way quicker?



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G1355

07-01-2013 18:20:41
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 07-01-2013 06:02:26  
Yes way quicker, have you ever raced a stock gas vs a diesel,why do you think muscle cars aren't diesels or race cars?



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soundguy

07-02-2013 04:50:22
108.112.215.255



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 07-01-2013 18:20:41  
racing is for sports fans.

what a race car does on a track baears no similarity to what a truck pulling a load down the highway is doing.



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John M

07-02-2013 11:54:37
68.115.194.228



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 07-02-2013 04:50:22  
I think he"s missing something, Chris! Just cant think of a polite way to say it!



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soundguy

07-02-2013 15:23:04
108.112.220.76



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to John M, 07-02-2013 11:54:37  
i thought about asking if he know of any gas powered semi trucks or freight trains.. all the big prime movers i see are diesel.

they ALL can't be wrong.

I used to try to pull with a 5.9l gasser dodge. no gutz on hard pulls.. ended up getting WORSE fuel economy than my 7.3l psd's fords.

and this is not a ford / dodge thing. I like ford AND i like dodge. I'd have been fine with a dodge 3500 diesel. i just found the ford first...

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jon f mn

07-02-2013 19:54:23
70.195.2.218



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 07-02-2013 15:23:04  
Not so fast there, lots of big trucks are switching to natural gas with spark ignition engines for short haul now. Dart has several fleets of them out there and so do many other companies. Dart has some that run Minneapolis to chicago and some in Atlanta and also in El Paso. Not enough filling stations yet for long haul but it's coming. They say they pull fine, but there are some reliability issues yet. I'm sure they will get that figured out tho.

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willie in mn

07-03-2013 04:08:42
205.188.116.68



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to jon f mn, 07-02-2013 19:54:23  
This is as good a place as any to jump in. Agree, it all depends on the useage. Look at all those yellowish Schwan's ice cream trucks. Freezer bodies are heavy. Run heavy a couple miles, then shut down to make sales calls. Then run again. Low daily mileage. Up until just the last couple years, if it said GMC on the front, it was a 454 running on propane. Not sure how some of the newer rigs are powered. One place I worked some years back had gas big rigs. Boss penciled it out, needed 75000 miles to make diesels pay. Problem was we needed heavy frame/axles etc to handle the weight, but longest haul was 2 miles or less, then lots of dock time, 40 miles a day tops for 1 rig that ran double shift, 5 am to 10 pm. Some only ran 15-20 miles a day. At that rate, it would take 8, & up to 15 years to make diesel cost efficient.
In a nutshell, work it hard, run high miles, diesel gives lower lifetime cost. But lower mileage, lighter loads, lower initial cost, gas costs less over a vehicle's lifetime.
That's my opinion,& I'm sticking to it.
Willie

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charles todd

07-07-2013 22:01:24
174.250.241.158



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to willie in mn, 07-03-2013 04:08:42  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

8.1L engines.

CT



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G1355

07-08-2013 02:52:35
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to charles todd, 07-07-2013 22:01:24  
The 8.1 is a great motor to, they pull good, just a little hard on fuel.



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PretendFarmer

07-29-2013 07:48:10
192.249.47.207



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 07-08-2013 02:52:35  
Gallon for gallon, diesel fuel contains more energy than Gasoline does. Gas is a solvent, diesel is a lubricant. That is why diesels are more effecient. It's just the way it is. No opinion there, simple fact. That is why diesel engines run 300,000 miles and demand more. The only way a gasser goes that far is if it's babied and it will be tired by then.

I pull trailers. Not every day but several times per month anyways. My gas powered chevy, as reliable as it was couldnt hold a candle to my 97 12v Cummins Dodge 2500. Some of the trailers I pull were too much for the gas. Had to smash the pedal up every hill. I get better towing mileage than the Chevy got unloaded. Thats talking 7500lbs or less. Over that the Dodge pulls it fine but your paying for it. That gasser would cost more fuel.I never had to smash the pedal on this cummins.
This post was edited by PretendFarmer at 07:49:51 07/29/13.

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showcrop

07-03-2013 04:51:05
75.67.231.80



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to willie in mn, 07-03-2013 04:08:42  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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G1355

07-02-2013 17:51:10
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 07-02-2013 15:23:04  
The diesel should get better mileage pulling, not by much, but just driving there almost identical.



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soundguy

07-02-2013 18:13:10
108.112.220.76



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 07-02-2013 17:51:10  
i get bette rmilag epulling because the truck is not constantly downshifting to 2nd to make a hill. the larger diesel coasts thru....



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T in NE

07-02-2013 18:37:10
75.235.42.118



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to soundguy, 07-02-2013 18:13:10  
Sometimes you just need to let facts get in the way of a poor argument.



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farmer boy

06-29-2013 20:17:48
199.167.109.42



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 06-29-2013 19:40:52  
You're dillusional. I know you have a thing for your Hemi, but no way in hell is it going to pull better(quicker) than a diesel of the same age. Torque is what does the work, and the gas has just over 1/2 the torque of a diesel. Just because you chose a Hemi, doesn't mean that diesel isn't better. It costs more, but it's worth it for some people.



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G1355

07-01-2013 18:23:27
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to farmer boy, 06-29-2013 20:17:48  
Actually my Powerwagon was a 7400 dollar option and the cummins was only 6500 and the Powerwagon comes with the hemi only. But the cummins is a great motor to.



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farmer boy

07-04-2013 10:33:53
199.167.109.42



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 07-01-2013 18:23:27  
YOU ARE SO INCREDIBILY STUPID! The thread starts out saying that you can't justify a diesel, but you now say that you paid more for the gas than you would have for the diesel. Big trucks that are good at nothing scream 'little weiner syndrome", far more than a diesel. Here's why. If I see a stock diesel truck, I don't know whether or not the owner uses this truck as a work truck or not, but if I see a PowerWagon, I don't care if he uses it for work because it was more expensive than a diesel. Therefore the only conclusion is that the owner is compensating for something.

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G1355

07-04-2013 11:48:45
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to farmer boy, 07-04-2013 10:33:53  
It's my fun truck, kinda like a ford raptor, I like something you can go through mud with or take across a field and ride incredibly smooth, like when you gotta get to those good fishing spots. But it does work when it needs to.



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welding man

07-04-2013 14:44:53
76.9.224.70



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 07-04-2013 11:48:45  
Been watching this argument for several days,gas v diesel. It's kindly like a tractor pull,hook her to the sled and it will settle it once and for all. What you need is a good pull-off. Take your diesels and gassers and hook them to a good gooseneck,loadum up with a couple of tractors til you get close to 26,000 GVW, put about 250 dollars each in a pot, winner takes all,just to make it interesting and take off on a 250 mile trip in the mountains of VA and WV, where I pull. Whoever gets there first on less fuel wins. I'll put my money on the the old 5 spd Cummins with 4:10 gears.

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Brian Jasper co. ia

08-16-2013 08:21:30
166.181.81.196



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to welding man, 07-04-2013 14:44:53  
Interesting thing on 8/14 at the Iowa State Fair pulls, there was about 10 diesel pickups pulling in a newly sanctioned class. 9 were Dodge 1 was a Chevy. The Chevy took 1st buy a good 12". They also commented on him being the current points leader...



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varmint

09-09-2013 23:36:35
216.237.70.109



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to Brian Jasper co. ia, 08-16-2013 08:21:30  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

if i was you id by a chevy then



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G1355

08-16-2013 16:34:14
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to Brian Jasper co. ia, 08-16-2013 08:21:30  
That's funny every diesel truck pull I've went to with stock trucks the cummins always wins.



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Brian Jasper co. Ia

08-16-2013 20:52:40
166.181.80.241



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to G1355, 08-16-2013 16:34:14  
The pulls you"re going to must not be sanctioned by anybody. I hear Outlaw has a list of what you can and can"t do...



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buickanddeere

08-05-2013 17:57:49
209.240.127.193



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to welding man, 07-04-2013 14:44:53  
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The Cummins 5 speeds are rusted out and in the wrecking yards around here. Lets compare a late model EPA emissions diesel with a late model gasser. Get out there approaching 200,000 miles and no manufactures warranty on your particulate filtered and urea injecting truck.That has to pass annual or semi annual emissions checks. The diesel just falls father and farther behind with the gasser with the cost of repairs.
Diesel is going to look even worse with the DI gassers in the 2015 GM trucks. Even the 1/2 ton 2014 with just a 5.3L is impressive with capacity, power and mileage. How much power is required racer boy? You are hauling a high center of gravity load with a light truck, not driving a vette on the track. How on earth did they ever haul 40 ton of freight cross country over two mountain ranges with a 318 in a semi truck?

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mj

07-06-2013 10:36:20
216.237.70.109



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to welding man, 07-04-2013 14:44:53  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Ditto - I have pulled thru some of your mountains (kin in Richmond) and you've got some steep pitches for sure, Lover's Leap & Sandstone Mtn. come to mind, but I am sure that those are not the best VA & WV have to offer - Kinda like comparing Vale Pass to Monarch Pass out here, I suppose. And we got better ones than that :twisted:. My '05 Dodge (Cummins, NV5600, 24' PJ & B&W

goose loves them all). So, again, DITTO :!:

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buickanddeere

08-05-2013 18:01:38
209.240.127.193



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to mj, 07-06-2013 10:36:20  
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That's an old diesel with very little emissions equipment.Lets see where the owners of 2013 emissions diesels are with 9 yr old diesels that are past the manufactures warranty. Today the gasser is the simple, reliable low maintenance engine. That burns cheaper fuel too.



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mj

08-05-2013 19:15:00
216.237.70.109



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to buickanddeere, 08-05-2013 18:01:38  
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Damn - It's my newest road vehicle and has just a shade over 40k on it and now it's 'old' - Oh well, it's still newer than me! :lol



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G1355

08-05-2013 18:58:37
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to buickanddeere, 08-05-2013 18:01:38  
Yup your right that's why today 55% of 2500 trucks are gas. And no adding def fluid. Just gas and go



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G1355

07-04-2013 19:55:00
67.224.60.152



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to welding man, 07-04-2013 14:44:53  
If I was gonna pick a diesel it would be the cummins no doubt, but if I was picking the gas, it'd be the hemi with 4:56 gears, and next year the 6.4 hemi with 4:56 gears, that 6.4 will be wild, don't care who says what



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mj

07-04-2013 11:08:26
216.237.70.109



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to farmer boy, 07-04-2013 10:33:53  

farmer boy said: (quoted from post at 11:33:53 07/04/13) YOU ARE SO INCREDIBILY STUPID! ................


Son,Son! Take it easy - you don't even know this guy! There's an old saying that goes something like this: 'Everyone is brilliant until they open their mouth.' Think Mark Twain or Will Rogers said that. I, myself, have a lot of opinions & beliefs that others DO NOT agree with. Who knows - maybe I'm right or maybe they are BUT it's not worth showing them that I'm really not very smart by opening my mouth to run them down - just sit back for awhile and watch the blinking lights - you might just learn something that you didn't even consider :wink:
This post was edited by mj at 10:17:33 07/06/13.

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farmer boy

07-04-2013 20:37:39
199.167.109.42



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to mj, 07-04-2013 11:08:26  
His original post has nothing in common to the quoted archived thread he replied to. Nofbdybs couldn't justify it financially based on his unique situation. G1355 comes on here saying he couldn't justify a diesel, when what he really meant is that he didn't want a diesel, but rather a toy, and the diesel engine doesn't fit the bill for him. He then continues to say that the gas engine cost him MORE than the diesel. Suddenly he looks like a complete (insert word(s) here) for making this post because it has even less merit. I said what I said and meant it. He comes on here every week or 2 to state how great the PowerWagon and Hemi are, and posts something so dumb.

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Brian Jasper co. IA

06-29-2013 20:38:58
166.181.82.115



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to farmer boy, 06-29-2013 20:17:48  
+1 more. To say his 5.7 Hemi pulls as good as any of the diesels offered by any of the big 3 says he"s never driven one with a load on it...



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willie in mn

06-30-2013 02:57:42
205.188.116.68



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to Brian Jasper co. IA, 06-29-2013 20:38:58  
My two cents, just another viewpoint. Short stroke V8 would be quicker acceleration off the line, but inline 6 has more brute force & ignorance for the long haul. Just the nature of the beasts. Now gas vs diesel is a whole different discussion.
Willie



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T in NE

06-30-2013 10:52:12
75.238.197.110



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to willie in mn, 06-30-2013 02:57:42  
Even an inline 6 vs a similarly sized v8 (say, the Ford 300 vs 302) the 302 will rev harder and have more horse, but the 300 will make more torque at lower RPM and won't fall on its face as bad in a hard pull. An I6 just likes to make torque.



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mj

07-03-2013 14:01:39
216.237.70.109



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to T in NE, 06-30-2013 10:52:12  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I agree with that - I've had experience with the 300 vs. the 302 and I believe that the 300 Ford I6 is the best light truck engine Ford or anyone else has ever built AND I am NOT a FoMoCo fan but I will give credit where it's due :wink:



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Caseyc

06-30-2013 20:50:58
75.102.185.250



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to T in NE, 06-30-2013 10:52:12  
^^^ Agreed ^^^ I have owned both. While the V8 will get you from point A to point B faster, there's usually a lot of shifting going on keeping the rpm's up. I still have an old 300 straight six and it has out lugged any V8 I've owned. Currently own three generations of cummins. Newest being a 2007 with the 6.7. There's no way a 5.7 hemi could reliably keep up for any amount of time. Now my old 1993 12 valve, yes, he'd leave me in the dust. But, what kind of shape is that hemi gonna be in 300,000 miles and 20 years later? My 12 valve is still kickin along just fine with no signs of slowing down....

Casey in SD

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soundguy

07-01-2013 06:04:01
108.112.219.139



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to Caseyc, 06-30-2013 20:50:58  
i like my 99 7.3psd reliable. pulls good. feels good and safe towing... etc..



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T in NE

06-30-2013 21:43:46
75.235.21.5



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to Caseyc, 06-30-2013 20:50:58  
Told my sister to try saving some money, she'd like a truck. Keeping an eye on early-mid-90s F-150s with the 300 and 5 speed, they don't rust as bad out here. It's that or double the money into an early Cummins to fix things like the teflon-based primer and really poor wiring, and add the complications of having a diesel in cold weather. My 90's about perfect for me, but something a little less complicated- and with parts more readily available- would be better for her.

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Matt L

07-02-2013 20:10:50
50.52.16.182



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 Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. in reply to T in NE, 06-30-2013 21:43:46  
I dont think I could have a gas powered work truck again. My first plow truck got 5 mpg plowing snow. Both cummins trucks get 10mpg plus plowing snow. It doesnt help that I like the screw around sometimes either. Both cummins are turned up is prolly why. I never did with the gas trucks even when they were mod'd.

Far as towing gas doesnt hold a candle to the ol cummins. I have never got below 12mpg towing 10k plus. I also make ~400whp in the one truck. It makes hills look alot easier then my 360 powered 1 ton with 488;s ever did.

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