Welder problem

I have an older Century arc welder that I am having trouble striking an arc with, and when I do get it going it will go away after about 5-10 seconds. Can it be as simple as moisture in the rods?

What rod are you using? Is this a AC / DC machine? Is this a tapped coil or a movable coil? Have you tried different current settings?

Super H Mike; Not likely, but easy to find out. Buy a small quantity of fresh rods and try one. Have you tried running a bead on steel which has been ground to bright metal at the place where the ground clamp is attached as well as where you're going to run the test bead? If it's an AC only welder, are you running an AC friendly rod like 6011, 6013, or 7014?

Stan

Yes I have tried that , it is an AC/DC machine. Settings don't seem to matter, heat or polarity. My only rods are old (7018), will be buying new ones tonight and try it out, thanks .

Mike, 7018 rods are the most difficult rods to use of those in common usage. Old ones which haven't been kept in a rod oven are going to be even worse. If I were the one dealing with that welder I'd try the most user friendly rods available to make sure the welder is performing as it should. That would be 6013 rods. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you use 6013 where 7018 rods are appropriate. I'm just suggesting that you start at the basics to determine if the welder is working correctly. Fresh 7018 rods wouldn't be a waste of money though.

Stan

7018 can go bad . According to the web there are ways to drive the moisture back out of the 7018 rod but better to buy new.

Great advice ! Fresh 6013s and I am welding again! Two more questions, I noticed I had some "craters" after chipping the slag off. Is that the material, technique, or too hot, what do you think? I was welding a new flex joint onto an exhaust pipe from a car. I had it on 90 amps DC straight polarity. The pipe was off the car and in the vise so it was basically flat work. I was able to fill the craters in ok but wondering what was causing it. I am not a pro by any stretch but always seem to get the jobs done. Also, how can I store my rods better without investing in professional equipment?

(quoted from post at 15:14:07 06/04/18) Also, how can I store my rods better without investing in professional equipment?

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Have a Nephew that is a pipeline welder with 798.

For rods that he stores at home. He has a small refrigerator with an incandescent bulb that stays on all of the time. On his welding rig he has bunch of rubber O-ring sealed rod tubes that he keeps opened rods in. He also has a toaster oven that he heats rods in before using them on the job.

Supe, I ran into the same thing with year old 7018ac rod. Got some Hobart 7018 non "ac" and it ran great on my old dc machine.

Those pin holes in your weld beads are is called porosity. There are different things to cause this. Check YouTube for many videos.

Hello Super H Mike,

You can by a plastic storage tube. The cap has an o"ring to keep the rods dry.
When you take them out to use, you should prep them before use by drying them. An old BBQ will do just fine 225* for a few minutes. You won't believe the difference!

Guido.

I use the 7018 rod at times and any time I have trouble I just stick the rod for a moment so it heats up and then pull it free and then they work just fine. I store my rods in open boxes and sticking old rods till good and worm works

Mike; I've always found 6013 to be bad about leaving those holes in the bead. I've heard the term "fish eyes" but I'm not sure they're that. I think they're mostly the result of technique. You feel like you've done the whole bead at a consistent rate of travel, arc length, etc. but when you chip off the slag there they are. I can usually avoid them if I have a chance to practice a bit before doing the welds that counts. Once I've got the variables dialed in, I can run nice beads if I don't let my attention wander. 90 amps is just about right for 3/32" rod, maybe just a touch cool for 1/8", but the results are more important than the setting. Welders don't necessarily put out the exact amps the dial says.

As far as I know there's no reliable way to prevent 7018 from absorbing moisture other than to keep it in a rod oven. There are many suggestions about how to keep rods dry, as well as how to re-dry them if they have absorbed moisture, but none of these would be approved by the manufacturer or accepted for use on a code inspected job. For example, Lincoln Electric specifies how their 7018 rods can be re-dried by being placed in an oven for one hour at 650 to 700 degrees F. Standard kitchen ovens don't go that high except possibly in a cleaning cycle, and that would be a total crapshoot. I've been told that 7018 rods that have absorbed moisture can still be used for non-critical applications, but if you're fabricating or repairing something where a failure would be disastrous, it's better to use rods fresh out of a new package.

Electrodes with numbers ending in 10 or 11 don't need to be re-dried. Those ending in 24 or 27 can be re-dried for 30 to 45 minutes at 400 to 500 degrees F. (after being pre-dried at 200 to 230 degrees F. for 30 to 45 minutes if unusually damp). Those ending in 12, 13, 14, or 22 can be re-dried at 300 to 350 degrees F. for 20 to 30 minutes (after 30 to 45 minutes at 200 to 230 degrees F. if unusually damp). All this information from Lincoln Electric's Stick Electrode Product Catalog.

Stan

JTWAT; I don't think the holes in his 6013 weld beads that Mike is talking about are porosity. For some reason 6013 is subject to large holes in the bead, often involving slag inclusion. Mike described the holes as "craters" and said he was able to fix them. You'd never think of calling the tiny holes of porosity "craters", and to fix a porous weld bead you have to grind all of it off and do it over after you've figured out what caused the porosity and corrected it. I'm including a link to a picture of the kind of hole I think he was talking about.

Stan
Holes in 6013 weld beads

FWIW, 6010 and 6011 are pretty much immune to moisture problems.

As for 6013, it makes a nice bead but has poor penetration. Try some 7014, you'll like it.

(quoted from post at 02:40:06 06/05/18) FWIW, 6010 and 6011 are pretty much immune to moisture problems.

As for 6013, it makes a nice bead but has poor penetration. Try some 7014, you'll like it.

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You don't very often hear 7014 rod mentioned, I like it and have been using it for many, many years.

Dusty

That is exactly what I had going. It seemed to me the puddle was too big and the slag was starting to travel in front of the electrode after maybe an inch of welding. I solved it by just doing short 1/2 beads and restarting. Maybe I will try 7014 rods next. Those are what I was first taught on way back in middle school.

Mark; Years ago there was a Canadian named Dave who participated on this forum. I considered him one of the all time most well-informed people about welding matters due to his background and technical expertise. Unfortunately, he was argumentative, quick to take offense, and easily provoked into long, bitter quarrels. (Come to think of it, the three individuals who I've considered the foremost welding experts here over the years have all been like that.) The relevance to our current conversation is that Dave pointed out that 7014 is intended for static load applications, while 7018 is for dynamic loads. I had a hard time finding information to confirm this, but I eventually came to understand that it is true. Without researching it again I wouldn't be able to explain why it's true; it's one of those arcane subjects that most people couldn't care less about, anyway. The main takeaway for me is that welding is far more complex than most people are aware. Most people want to stick two pieces of metal together and have little or no interest in how much better and more effectively it could be done.

Stan

Mike; I think you're exactly right, but you should be able to adjust your amps, arc length, rod angle, etc. to be able to lay down a continuous bead. 6013 is over-used because it's a sweet rod to work with. With a few minutes of adjusting your settings you can usually get the slag to lift and peel off the weld bead by itself in a single piece. It's very gratifying. That doesn't make it a better all purpose rod, though. With its shallow penetration and relative weakness, it's only suitable for a few things, and definitely not right for many others.

Stan

I keep 7014 1/8 and 1/16 rod on hand all the time and use it more often then the 7018 which I also keep on hand. That is pretty much the only rods I ever use

Your right Stan, I misunderstood the type of crater. That does look like slag inclusion.

I have that issue with the Forney 6013s. No one elses. just have trouble welding thru their flux. no trouble with any other brand

Hi Stan, yes I remember Dave the Angry Welder. As well as other Daves who have come and gone.

Unlike Dave, I don't claim to be an expert on welding. But what I do know is 7018 is a "low hydrogen" rod. Read up on "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement">hydrogen embrittlement</a>" if you want to know why hydrogen in a weld is a bad thing. So that makes 7018 a good choice for any sort of critical weld. But the benefits of a low hydrogen rod are lost if it isn't kept dry, which is why I never understood why someone would buy a bunch of 7018 if they don't have a way to properly store it. Meaning a rod oven in most parts of the country.

My point wasn't so much 7014 versus 7018, but rather 7014 versus 6013. 6013 has notoriously poor penetration, making it a bad choice for anything other than the thinnest material. I find 7014 to be the sweet spot: it has reasonably good penetration, and is easy to use on AC, straight or reverse polarity.

Well put, Mark, and exactly right. As usual.

Stan

(quoted from post at 22:14:07 06/04/18) Great advice ! Fresh 6013s and I am welding again! Two more questions, I noticed I had some "craters" after chipping the slag off. Is that the material, technique, or too hot, what do you think? I was welding a new flex joint onto an exhaust pipe from a car. I had it on 90 amps DC straight polarity. The pipe was off the car and in the vise so it was basically flat work. I was able to fill the craters in ok but wondering what was causing it. I am not a pro by any stretch but always seem to get the jobs done. Also, how can I store my rods better without investing in professional equipment?

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Was what you were welding clean? If not, that could be your problem. But heat, travel, rod angle all come into play too. Like others have said, there are better electrode choices available.

I suspect your inclusion problem wouldn't have been as bad on AC as DC straight.

There used to be a welder on here, Tbone. I tried to catch up with him in 2008 but missed.
He was from New Mexico. He passed sometime after that.
I wish I could have met him, he seemed to be a nice guy.

Dusty

Dusty; Arizona, I'm pretty sure. One time I drove from Tucson to Flagstaff at night. When I mentioned it on this forum T-bone told me I should have dropped by wherever it was he lived. Even if it hadn't been late at night I would have been much too self-conscious to visit. I was a rank amateur then, and he was the person I thought knew everything about welding. But T-bone could be touchy too. He was one of the two experts here who would really get into it with that Dave I was talking about. Both of them threatened more than once to never participate here again because of how angry they were at the other. I'm sure some people found it entertaining, but I found it upsetting.

Stan

Check your cables.

Having the same problem and found a bad connection caused by the cables getting jerked by a table being moved in the shop.

Brad