Roundabouts

Brian G. NY

Well-known Member
Regarding Paul's statement below regarding roundabouts:

If it is a very high traffic area, a roundabout will definitely improve the flow thru intersections.

I have spent some time on the island of Barbados and all the major intersections there (many) have roundabouts and they work very well.
Biggest problem there is you have to drive on the "wrong" side of the road while sitting on the "wrong' side of the car. LOL

There have been several installed here in the Albany/Schenectady area and they seem to be working out well.
Most people I talk to like them once they get used to them.
 
They really do flow traffic much better than stoplights, especially if the cross traffic is well balanced. They are commonplace around the world, and common in the use before the advent of stoplights. I have seen some too small for trucks to easily get through, and would work better if folks did not crowd to get through and alternated, but people are people.
 
Roundabout where common over seas when I was in the navy. But most in the U.S. cause more accidents due to people not knowing how to drive in them. Even seen people sort of get stuck in one and that person drove around it 3 or 4 times before figuring out how ot get out of it
 
As a general rule I like well designed roundabouts. That said there is one near me that is way too small and off sided that when traveling east if there is a car traveling west you have to stop anyway even if the westbound car goes straight. This is because the westbound lane exit and the entrance to the roundabout for the eastbound lanes are very close together. If the other car would decide to make the turn and stay on the roundabout and you collided with them you would be at fault because they are already in the roundabout at that point.
Roundabouts on highways should have a minimum diameter to allow for a typical 18 wheeler to navigate it without running over curbs.
 
(quoted from post at 18:03:37 04/17/18) As a general rule I like well designed roundabouts. That said there is one near me that is way too small and off sided that when traveling east if there is a car traveling west you have to stop anyway even if the westbound car goes straight. This is because the westbound lane exit and the entrance to the roundabout for the eastbound lanes are very close together. If the other car would decide to make the turn and stay on the roundabout and you collided with them you would be at fault because they are already in the roundabout at that point.
Roundabouts on highways should have a minimum diameter to allow for a typical 18 wheeler to navigate it without running over curbs.

Apparently, I have never seen a "well designed roundabout".
 
First roundabout I ever experienced was when I got stationed at Randolph AFB near San Antonio. Had never seen or heard of them before. ...Talk about sudden mass confusion! :shock:
 
Yes, you have to get used to them, be very cautious and observant when driving. Give trucks lots of room too. There was a series of them built at Exit 12 of the Adirondack Northway, 12 years ago. Lots of collisions with trucks at first, but they do seem to flow traffic nicely.

Company I work for built a prison in Barbados, I still have dealings with them for parts and such for their detention hardware - salt air/humidity over there seems to wreak havoc on things over time.
 
Tim, I haven't either! Hate those things!!!

They work if everybody plays by the rules.

But the aggressive drivers...

I actually got passed on the right by one the other day! Inside the circle!!!
 
Here in Michigan the TV news had a person from the state talking about roundabouts and how they save lives. His reasoning
was they have more accidents but fewer fatalities because of the lower speeds. Witch sounds stupid but probably true. If
you have ever watched a 4 way stop intersection, many people don't know how that is supposed to work. There is the person
that thinks its always his turn to go and the person that thinks its never his turn and just sits there. I used to have a
shop in a small village, that had a 4 way stop at the edge of town next to me. They were always having accidents there,
rear endings, nose to nose, a lot of tire squealing and horn blowing. There is not room for a roundabout without wiping
out half the village. Me I hate roundabouts and try to avoid them. Now don't get me started about pulling a trailer thru
roundabouts or a Michigan turnaround.
 
I travel overseas a lot and many places have roundabouts. In Bahrain the car entering the roundabout has the right of way, whereas just about everywhere else I've been the car already in the roundabout has the right of way. I've also noticed that they work really good up to a certain point, but when the traffic level gets really heavy, they cause a lot worse gridlock than a regular intersection.
 
The best ones are the roundabouts with two
lanes of traffic entering and exiting!

That said, the state of ND built one a
couple years ago that you can swing a 225
foot long truck through... Major truck
route on a two lane road, it is much better
than sitting at a stop hoping for a turn
eventually.

So long as they are a decent sized circle
and only have one lane of through traffic,
I am ok with roundabouts.
 
State of Wisconsin decided ten years ago to not build 4-way or T-intersections anymore, ONLY Round-a-
Bouts. They seem to always make the circle too small, about half the size it should be, and they build a
mound in the center so you can't see if other vehicles are in the circle, yes, headlights would be a
nuicance at night but seeing oncoming cars sounds like a better idea. They put two lanes on most of them
which just confuses most people not familiar with them being in the wrong lane to exit on their road.

I'd think somebody in the state's DOT had their finger on the scale weighing the results of traffic
accidents in traffic circles vs intersections. Wife had a car cut her off swerving from right lane into
left lane she tried to avoid and someone else tried to pass her on the left and they side-swipped. Guy
who swerved from right to left lane took off, Wife's car had one tiny paint smudge I buffed out, guy in
the left lane probably had a couple Thousand Dollar repair.

I try to avoid the $@&# things!
 
The people that make out best due to roundabouts are the traffic engineers that "design" them. The highest traffic accident intersection in the state of Michigan is a roundabout on the south side of Ann Arbor near the airport where State street crosses another high traffic route. They just put one on the north side of Chelsea, MI last summer where M52 is exiting town at the base of a long hill headed north. I feel sorry for the semis that have to slow down for this ill placed abortion, then have to slowly accelerate up the long hill. Total needlessness! I now see the tire marks where people are just driving right over the top of the thing!
 
If they like them in Europe, then let them keep them! Texas built one of each (roundabouts or a Michigan turnaround.) here a few years ago. Ton of tax dollars. Both have since been removed!!!! During time in France, most of what I saw on roundabouts,from the bus windows, were crushed scooter riders.....hard way to die. Like bugs to bus & trucks.
 
I live in Wisconsin and have seen a few well
design roundabouts.But almost all of the
roundabouts that I have used in my area are
not well designed and are way to small for
large trucks and forget trying to move a
piece of farm equipment around one.I have
been told a few may be removed due to these
issues.
 
We got one in town a few years ago, it is actually a T road, state highway with access toa Menards store.

Works well, I'm good with it. Location is terrible, as snow builds up on it, and thry have 6 foot high drifts around it, its in a wind catch area, so
thry are spending a -lot- on maintaining it over winter, extra plowing and then have to load and haul the snow away between storms.

The big town down the road a half hour got roundabout happy. Thry are everywhere. And each one is different. Some have turn out lanes, if
you want to turn right you take the lane right before the roundabout. Some only have turn lans, some 4, some none, some have a 4 lane
concentrating to a 2 lane st the roundabout. And other variations.

It is a nightmare. As a stranger I have no idea what is coming next. Why are we trying to create confusion?

Then they have the pair of 4 lane roundabouts next to each other. Extremely heavy traffic, near the shopping centers, as well as truck traffic
through highway. And again, each one is slightly different. Trying to pick which lane to get in and out of both those roundaboughts is crazy
stupid.

But the one lane, consistent design ones are good.

Paul
 
I go through 35 of them on my bus route every day
they work pretty good except for 2 which are close
to each other they get Jamed up when people are
taking there kids to school in the morning
 
We have them just about everywhere in Australia , certainly more efficient in light to moderate traffic . They let you have the freedom to make your own decision rather than waiting for some robot light to do it for you .
Take pity on the Brits though , there is a '' Magic Roundabout '' in Swindon that is a collection of smaller ones in a Mandala shape , really nuts !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)
 
It really surprises me that the people in the US, which thrives on less government intervention, does not like roundabouts.

Let me make the decision.
 
Here's a link to the 1951 movie Air Cadet. The movie itself is pretty good, but is usually more enjoyable for AF veterans and personnel. Still, some of the training they went through was comical to say the least! Anyway, the movie starts out at Randolph and shows the roundabout back then. My internet is horribly slow right now, so I can't pull it up to see just how far into the movie it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya5x4WonF_8
 
Mythbusters did a show in 2014 comparing roundabouts to 4-way intersections. It was no contest as far as capacity.
Roundabouts were way more conducive to high flow traffic.
 
Have driven on them a lot in both the US and Europe and generally like them. Europe can sometimes be challenging because they tend to be smaller and can have more then 4 exit points. Keeps you on your toes if you are trying determine which exit you want.
 
Indianapolis Indiana Circle City. The first round a bout I drove on, down town very slow traffic and works great. Other newer ones are (for the first time) a pain.
 
When I was in france the scooter riders would swarm around the trucks and busses to occupy every square inch of available space. God forbid they ever wait in line to go through intersections. Doesn't surprise me that some of them get squashed.
 
My two cents. I think NJ had the first or one of the first trafic
circles. YES,,, two lanes in out and around is best. The circle has
right of way and lanes entering MUST yeild. State Troopers love to
write tickets. Shore traffic is the best. Have seen one Trooper with
four cars pulled over. They don't even hide their cars. They stand to
the side and watch the traffic. You screw up and you get that straight
arm to the side pointing to were the ticket will be issued. They did
take out two of the very old circles in the Cherryhill ,NJ area and
installed staggered trafic lights. Traffic got so heavy the circles
juast couldn't handel it.
 
I hate them, very dangerous, cannot tell where trafick is comming from. Speed limits signs to slow down traffic to 15 MPH, soon as the people see then they floor the gas and try to see how fast they gan get to go thru them. I actually saw a pickup go thru one on 2 wheels one time. And that was out in country with me that they had just flown around only other vehical on road and I was doing speed limit. I avoid them at all costs. Go miles out of my way to do it. Any that like them must have perfect vision.
 
From a truck driver perspective:
those are nothing but a disaster
waiting to happen. Never seen one
that a road truck can get around
without using both lanes and the
apron. Impatient car drivers
complicate things, too. I call them
"traffic hazards ". Better
description than traffic circle as
they are often called.
 
Jeez,I thought this one was bad.....
a265352.jpg
 
The stores were built in center of Angola Indiana in such a way for a traffic circle. It has a tall statue in the center. We have always called it the mound. It does not have the two lanes like some. The only problem I find with it is some drivers do not know what a big yield sigh on the entry means in heaver traffic. I love the ones in heavy traffic shaking their fist at you not holding up traffic to let them in. I have never had to wait very long to get thru. Most of the time I don't even have to stop.
 
David I will bring one of our semis down with a 53 foot van trailer on it and let you drive it through the circle at Mt. Vernon. I want you to go south on Highway 1 and then need to go east on highway 30. You will need to used BOTH lanes and even then your going to curb the tires on the trailer. Now for more fun and games try it at 4:30 PM. on a work day.

Traffic circles would be fine if they were made big enough for the vehicles that used them. We have a lot longer vehicles than they usually do in Europe. I have no idea how the Australian truck drivers pulling doubles and triples get through them down there.

Wisconsin went crazy on them about 5-6 years ago. They put them in the middle of now where on each side of a four lane highway exciting onto a two lane state road. The circles could not have been much larger than 50 ft.. You had to drag the trailer around the curb/mound in the middle of each one of them. We where pulling 48 ft. spread axle belt trailers. They have a longer turning radius than a 53 ft. van trailer. Really wore the side walls on the trailer tires. Got real fun on a couple of them over by the Wisconsin Dells when you added the summer tourists.
 

I can see that there are a few guys here that did not read the fine print when they signed up for YT. Roundabouts are one of a couple dozen things that you agreed to always condemn when you signed up.
 
Ah! What goes around, comes around! Here in Western Pa they were common before WWII but then the upcoming generation thought they were smarter and eliminated them. Now a few are coming back, every generation changes things; live long enough and you see it all.
Jim B
 
Seems like there must be 3 or 4 south of the Dells, one right after another and another 3 or 4 east of Mt Horeb.
 
Isn't one of those 'roundabouts' in England called Picadilly Circus?' If they are so wonderful, why is it called that?

Only in Stanly County NC would the DOT build a "Northeast Connector" to make it quick to get from the north side of Albemarle to the East side, and then put 'roundabouts' in them to slow people down. Loopy-loops.

These roundabouts only have about a 15 ft. radius in the center. So you have about 3 seconds to predict whether the oncoming car is going to suddenly cut across your path or not. . . . And nobody stops and few even slow down.
 
Last year we got two of them in Saegertown,PA. One on each end of town. Alot of people here complained
about them the whole time from when they were planning and building them. They have
actually been a major improvement here. My biggest problem has been the people that
are driving around it and stop for no reason...
 
(quoted from post at 18:36:19 04/17/18) Ah! What goes around, comes around!
Put my wife behind the wheel and let her near a roundabout and that there saying changes slightly, to "[i:4f5c00cdec]What goes around, keeps going round, and round, and round[/i:4f5c00cdec]..."
 
Ah, just remembered about another roundabout I experienced more recently. Last year, we drove down to Foxhome, MN to buy a skid loader. Not too far north of there, on the road heading up to Detroit Lakes is a small roundabout that is literally in the middle of nowhere! When we first came up on it, we didn't remember seeing any kind of sign -- certainly nothing that could clearly be visible at nighttime. We were in awe and wondered how many people belonged to those black streaks going through the center mound! :shock:
 
(quoted from post at 22:33:35 04/17/18) Ah, just remembered about another roundabout I experienced more recently. Last year, we drove down to Foxhome, MN to buy a skid loader. Not too far north of there, on the road heading up to Detroit Lakes is a small roundabout that is literally in the middle of nowhere! When we first came up on it, we didn't remember seeing any kind of sign -- certainly nothing that could clearly be visible at nighttime. We were in awe and wondered how many people belonged to those black streaks going through the center mound! :shock:
e had one here once that the "mound ' was a doughnut (hole in the center) and one night a car went over the center and into the hole. It was several days before someone found the decomposing body in the not visible hole. It is now cross streets with traffic signals. I was there, as my dad ran the wrecker service.
 
They are a pain for getting around with a semi. As JD and some other said hard on trailer tires and axles since a spread axle is pried up ovet the curb with a twist to the trailer as it rides the center.
I have been passed while using the one in the picture in Angola IN couldn't wait for me to get through with the semi.
Thank God they did not put one in Perry for the I-69 exit like they were talking about. The ones in Saginaw suck to drive trucks through.
 
(quoted from post at 21:44:12 04/17/18) We had one here once that the "mound ' was a doughnut (hole in the center) and one night a car went over the center and into the hole. It was several days before someone found the decomposing body in the not visible hole. It is now cross streets with traffic signals. I was there, as my dad ran the wrecker service.

A hole?!?!?

I started to write something else, but will simply say.....UN-REAL!!
 
Some people are uncomfortable getting their vehicle close to another car and so they sit and wait for "their" opening. Not all roundabouts are symmetrical. They are all round, but the entrance and the exits can be at odd intervals. Two days in a row I had people fail to yield to me and once when I entered from that direction, a person honked at me because he did not think that I was going to yield to him. The fender bender that I saw at that roundabout happened from that direction also. Which shows that not all roundabout are created equally. It would be an improvement if the were a larger diameter though.
SDE
 
(quoted from post at 14:02:27 04/18/18) Which shows that not all roundabout are created equally. It would be an improvement if the were a larger diameter though.
SDE

Maybe that is the key...most of the ones in Barbados are quite large.
 
As a Brit, I cannot understand my transatlantic cousins' dislike of roundabouts.
Yes, they have to be well designed, but that's why there are highway engineers and you have to know how to use them, but that's why there are driving instructors and driving tests.
Anything more than a 4 lane roundabout can get tricky, unless it is well marked and signed. However the principal is that the nearer you get to your exit, the further to the left (sorry right for you) you get.
 
I spent a lot of my teenage 'fun' nights crusin Angola !!!
and Indianapolis has the same 'center of town' !!
 
Back in the 60's, I was in the USAF, stationed in Mass. Got very use to 'rotaries' there.. Now there are popping up all over in Michigan,(round-a-bouts) I am comfortable with them, problem is the people that 'stop' to see they have a break. The idea is to "flow' with traffic. When my Dad first started driving interstates, He would stop at the end of the ramp and look for a break in 70 to 80 mph traffic ! esp in Detroit area, 60's &70's. I told him, you come down the ramp, hit 70mph and just 'merge' !! He couldn't do that...
 
In the 60's driving the interstate's in Detroit was very interesting. You could be driving 70 mile an hour and the police would come down a ramp and had to be rolling well over 80 blasting thru traffic. I never did figure out how fast you would have to drive to get a speeding ticket.
 
The interstate on-ramps is a whole other ball game. I'm sure we've all seen folks who will come to a complete stop on the on-ramp, and twist their heads looking for a spot to merge into. Problem is, by the time they get up to speed, everything they've seen has already passed them by!

At the same time, it infuriates me when folks come blazing up the on-ramp as though it is the responsibility of the people ON the interstate to move out of THEIR way!!
 
Drove through Wickenburg ARIZONA last week. We used three Round About / Traffic Circles....keeps the trafficking moving at a fast gallop.

Largest Round about I ever navigated was the Arch De Triumph in Paris France. There was hundreds of Automobiles!

Bob...
a265562.jpg
 
Simon, roundabouts are a very new thing here in the US.

Unless one had to take a test to get a commercial license, or a driving test was required by a court order after driving while intoxicated, most American drivers have not taken an in-car driving test or any driving instructions since we were teenagers, if at all. The same applies for reading the free updated driver's manuals. So often an older person's our first introduction to roundabouts is if we read about them in a newspaper or when we drive into one.

Many urban and rural landowners refuse to sell land to highway improvements without a court battle, and loud petitions about how big government has invaded their personal rights. So our standard roundabouts are limited to small single lane affairs better suited to residential traffic.
 
Largest Round about I ever navigated was the Arch De Triumph in Paris France. There was hundreds of Automobiles!



That reminded me of Chevy Chase's National Lampoon European vacation and his experience with a London Roundabout.

Click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc
 
I don't know what "new thing" means to you, but we had roundabouts in Texas in 1950's. I drove wrecker trucks to retrieve the crashed cars, one that was hidden from view in the "doughnut" center for days!
 
Well, in many parts of the US yes, but in New England they've been used almost as long as there have been motor vehicles. Here they're called "rotaries" and in a typical day I'll drive through a half-dozen or more of them. Mostly they work well and a few are complete horrors. And some on busy main roads even have "flyovers" for people going straight across. The new thing around here is making them have a smaller diameter.
 

During my police career we loved them because they are virtually accident-free. I understand why a trucker would not like them, but then they were never claimed to be for the benefit of truckers, either. As far as car traffic goes, they provide excellent traffic routing with virtualy no stopping required. If you time your entry right (you have to look ahead at the traffic already on the rotary) you can skate a car through in moderate traffic without even slowing down, which is the goal.
 

During my police career we loved them because they are virtually accident-free. I understand why a trucker would not like them, but then they were never claimed to be for the benefit of truckers, either. As far as car traffic goes, they provide excellent traffic routing with virtualy no stopping required. If you time your entry right (you have to look ahead at the traffic already on the rotary) you can skate a car through in moderate traffic without even slowing down, which is the goal.
 
The one thing that have been really good for around here is wasting tax payer dollars..........they construct them & a few years later, they tear them out. Double hit! :evil:
 

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