GFIC's bad out of the box

Doug-Iowa

Member
I installed several GFIC outlets this week and they were purchased at Menards (big box home improvement chain common here in the midwest). Spec grade 20 amp, in a tray marked Leviton but China made, have a valid UL sticker. 1 out of 3 are failing right out of the box, installed or on the bench. Interesting failure mode - they click about every 5 seconds but they don't fully trip and stay off. No down stream outlets. I have one clicking on my bench now I'm going to see how long it lasts. Then it will go in my "fails" box. If you're buying GFIC's might want to watch the quality.

I do a lot of safety training and many times when I bring up examples like this someone will say "it can't do that" or "that can't happen". Usually the guy with plenty of book but no experience. So I started a box of failed devices so I can show them what happens. Like 480V twist lock connector that shorted internally. What I could find of that one is in a baggie.
 
"in a tray marked Leviton but China made"

In the last 5 years, I have not seen a currently-made GFCI outlet that was NOT made in China.
 
Anyone that has GFIC outlets in their structures should also have in the tool box a plug in circuit tester with GF proofer button.
And when you change battery in smoke detector go around and check all of the GFCI's as well.
They do not do their job forever and you do not want to find out they did not do the job the bad way.

GF breakers also need to be checked for proper function regularly as well. They seem to not work in a shorter time then outlets.
 
I wonder how much damage has been done, and accidents caused - by so-called "safety devices. That includes GFCI outlets and breakers. I have removed many from our homes and glad to get free of them. Some of those breakers are $70 each and I have had many fail at only one year old (USA made, not Chinese).

I keep the GFCIs around water - e..g. near the kitchen sink and in the bathroom. The rest are GONE. No more refrigerators or battery-maintainers going dead and ruining things.

Same goes for "safety handles" on power-saws and chain-saws, anti-lock brakes on autos, unvented gas cans, etc., &c.
 
I have put several Leviton (from Home Depot) in and have not experienced any "bad ones".

1. What is upstream of the GFCI (both when testing and installed)? Perhaps something upstream is ground faulting and back feeding current upstream to the outlet. The exhaust fan switch in my bathroom was not grounded, when I connected the ground wire, the fan would work. There was enough power bleeding through the switch into the ground to not let the fan run (and give me a good shock), but not enough to trip the main breaker.
2. How old is the wiring? Could the insulation or loose connection be somewhere upstream

I had a troublesome GFCI that installed and activated without an issue, but when I put my polarity and testing plug in, it would not trip (the test button on the gfci wouldn't trip either). The outlet showed it had ground and neutral connected but nothing. There was a light switch box with two sets of ground wires. When I bonded both sets together, all of a sudden the gfci would trip when tested. My only guess while the GFCI was grounded, it was grounded somewhere other than the primary grounding circuit at the panel, causing it to not sense the stray current properly.
 
Doug, a GFCI is a potential life saving device which I (retired electrical power distribution engineer) use myself, specified where code or local governing authority required them, understand their operation, and believe in them.

HOWEVER based on my own personal experience and having dealt with electricians and electrical contractors for yearssssssssss THE CHEAP ONES ARE SO OFTEN JUNK LOL. What you say is what I heard and experienced myself, so you're sure not alone.

As you already know, but some here may not, they are typically specified/used for outdoors, wet and damp, some garages, certain kitchen and bathroom locations etc. for sound engineering safety reasons SINCE IF FUNCTIONING PROPERLY (maybe not a junk one grrrrrrrrrr) THEY CAN SAVE A LIFE.

I also believe in a mans free choice on his own property and his RIGHT to assume any risks he desires and make his own decisions as to what safety tools or devices he uses or doesn't use, even though I had to follow codes or authority in certain jurisdictions when I was the design engineer.

In our area the electricians purchased them from our local electrical supply houses where they may cost more, NOT at Lowes or Home Depot or Ace Hardware.

Take care and be safe yall

Happy Easter, He is Risen

John T
 
I recently replaced a GFCI for a friend that needed a different color for her kitchen granite. The old GFCI worked but was the wrong color. The new Leviton bought from Home Depot did not work. I returned that one to Home Depot and got another one. The second GFCI had the same problem. After a lot of fretting and searching the internet I found the new Leviton's are sent tripped and you have to really push the reset button with power connected. My big fingers could not push the reset button in far enough and I had to use a screwdriver to push the reset button in. Yes the GFCI was made in China. Try pushing the reset button in with power connected.
 
Thanks all. I realize most all that stuff comes from China, just trying to give folks a warning on new product issues. I use a lot of GFCI's and this was odd to run into this many failures.
 
Kind of old news now - but we were getting many new and bad Cutler Hammer type CH GFCI breakers 30 years ago. Certainly not just a new thing or a China-only problem.
 
You're welcome, as I said it looks like others have the same experience grrrrrrrrrrrrrr I cant say who makes what or who sells what, ONLY our electricians and contractors purchased at local ELECTRICAL SUPPLY HOUSES versus Big Box Stores........ Also in our shop Square D got the most business versus some other brands, but things may have since changed........

John T
 
I replaced a bunch of those Eaton arc fault breakers when they first came out. They were so sensitive to RF and would nuisance trip that Eaton had a free replacement program.
 
Generally speaking - electrical supplies are cheaper at a electrical supply place as compared to Lowes or Home Depot. If in the business, you'd have to be nuts to buy at a chain store. Nothing wrong with the quality at Home Depot. Just that many of their prices are high. They rope buyers in with the convenience - an low prices on a few items.

That said, Home Depot prices are good on Square D type QO stuff. I buy quite a bit of it since it is one of the few breakers UL tested for AC and DC. Use it a lot on low voltage solar-electric DC systems.
 
(quoted from post at 11:25:40 03/29/18) I wonder how much damage has been done, and accidents caused - by so-called "safety devices. That includes GFCI outlets and breakers. I have removed many from our homes and glad to get free of them. Some of those breakers are $70 each and I have had many fail at only one year old (USA made, not Chinese).

I keep the GFCIs around water - e..g. near the kitchen sink and in the bathroom. The rest are GONE. No more refrigerators or battery-maintainers going dead and ruining things.

Same goes for "safety handles" on power-saws and chain-saws, anti-lock brakes on autos, unvented gas cans, etc., &c.

A refrigeration motor is the hardest motor to start.
GFCI's and refrigerators do NOT work well together. Single phase refrigeration compressor have capacitors that absorb/delay the return current which causes the GFCI to trip.
Therefor a refrigerator should not be plugged into a GFCI circuit.

Dusty
 
Yep, and I wouldn't be surprised if different regions and cities might have different price structures. I was talking about my experiences in Southern Indiana. The contractors and high volume buyers got a better price then a walk in customer would get around here, I found that out real quick lol...........What I buy myself I prefer the real electric supply houses as the counter men are far more knowledgeable versus the 18 year old pimpled pencil necked know nothing geek at Home Depot REGARDLESS IF THE PRICE WAS HIGHER OR LOWER.

Take care n keep warm up there now and Happy Easter

John T
 
Dusty, years back when I practiced there was a GFCI EXCEPTION for a fridge or freezer in certain locations (A garage was one I recall) PROVIDED THAT 1) The receptacle was in a non readily accessible location and 2) It had to be a SINGLE receptacle NOT a duplex.

I AGREE a fridge or freezer is NOT a good candidate for GFCI protection due to easy nuisance tripping as you described

John T
 
I'm my part of southern Indiana I can get better quality for less at the local supply house them home depot. The only problem is they are not open late or weekends.
 
You mentioned spec grade. I?ve seen similar from big box store spec units I bought. I went to electric supply house and bought commercial grade devices (gfci, switches, receptacles) for our house. Yes, more expensive...Zero problems.
 
I find quality at Menards and electrical supply house to be equal but Menards will always cost more, exception being when they have there everything that fits in a bag sale then the electricians go in and buy bags full of the more expensive 3 phase breakers and such.
 
We've all had defective new stuff, what's important is if Menard's refunded you or replaced them, What's "the rest of the story"?
 
I recently installed one in the shop that is hard to reset. Gotta push it waaay in before it will snap. It tests good though.
 
Failure rate on new GFCI seems to be 1 in 3 from my experience. I haven't noticed any difference between manufacturers.
 
Fact. They sell nothing but low quality goods. Professional builders never buy their building materials from Menards. Also a fact.
 
You must have a different Menard?s there or your statement is pure speculation. I have worked construction for 30 years and over the course of that time the companies I?ve worked for, contractors I?ve worked with, and myself have all been known to buy goods at Menard?s.

So with that said it comes down to the possibility of a few things. Either the contractors and companies that I have worked around over the course of 30 years are not professionals or my last 30 years has been a figment of my imagination or the proverbial shoe has dropped.
 
So some of you are saying that the exact same model/part/UPC labeled item is of better quality at a Electric Supply house that caters to "professional trades people" ?.................

Versus the big box stores?

Really?

So do the manufacturers send the quality control rejects to the big box stores?
 
All the new Leviton made gfci's I get at work only trip when testing with a lamp. Ie using a circuit tester is useless, I have to physically plug a lamp in to trip it (TEST). PITa with over 40 apts to inspect monthly...
 
(quoted from post at 18:49:04 03/30/18) All the new Leviton made gfci's I get at work only trip when testing with a lamp. Ie using a circuit tester is useless, I have to physically plug a lamp in to trip it (TEST). PITa with over 40 apts to inspect monthly...

So..you plug the lamp in, then what do you do to "test" the outlet?
 
I have a "really dim view" of duplex receptacles with the function. I had to have them to get my new barn built in 2005 and inspected to get power hooked up and they have just been a PIA......at least the County code allowed ref. and freezers to be on a non GFI receptacle.
 
I have had zero issue with arc fault or GFCI breakers, they are there for a reason.

There are application where they are not applicable, and that is covered in the codes.
 
Hello John T,

My garage was wired by code with 20 Amp GFI circuits. I have a refrigerator, about 60+ years old, and a box freezer both on one of those circuit...zero problems since 2004. That is my story!

Guido.
 
(quoted from post at 15:49:04 03/30/18) All the new [b:6afe90a11e][u:6afe90a11e]Leviton[/u:6afe90a11e][/b:6afe90a11e] made gfci's I get at work only trip when testing with a lamp. Ie using a circuit tester is useless, I have to physically plug a lamp in to trip it (TEST). PITa with over 40 apts to inspect monthly...
/u]

Found and underlined your problem..

First thing to do is get rid of the lamp and get a Circuit Load Tester such as an Extech CT70.


Then replace those cheap chinese GFCI's with self testing HUBBELL's.
 

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