I do not understand electricity

henhawk

Member
I installed two fender mounted flasher lights (amber) on each fender of my John Deere. cleaned metal for good ground. Ran 12v to the switch on the dash. Installed flasher. Lights only burn solid and do not flash, replaced flasher same result, replaced flasher again same result. Took switch out of the circuit and ran 12 v straight to flasher same result (only burned solid) do not flash. seems so simple but I can not solve the issue. Any advice technical or otherwise will be appreciated.
 
Are they led lights? Sometimes those don't draw enough juice to flash. I think they sell a special flasher for led lights.
 
Assuming it's wired correctly, you probably have too heavy a flasher (requires more watts/amps flowing thru it than the bulbs actually draw). You need one that requires less wattage to work.
 
Are you using LED lights? There might not be enough load on your circuit to heat up the flasher. The old style automotive flashers used a heat/cool cycle to make the flash.

I used a motorcycle flasher that I found on eBay. It doesn't care if the load is light.
 
Sorry fellas - I'm a slow typist. There were no responses when I started my reply.
 
Fill in the blanks. What type of light bulb are you using?? Led lights do not have a high enough amp draw to trigger a flasher. If using the old type bulbs you maybe have have enough amp draw for the flasher your using.
 
Electronic flashers are pretty common and should be easy to find. Not load sensitive and blink at the same rate no matter how much load is on them....or not.
 
Nobody really understands electricity. Sure we have meters and such but it is still all just theoretical. Looks like you got a good answer any way.
 
Hey, no worry, just ask an electrical or legal question on here and you will get a ton of answers, some right some wrong lol but YOU have to decide which is which hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. As posted if the flasher is a bi metal current and heat activated device but you use a low current LED or otherwise too low current light, there's not enough current and heat to cause the opening and flash grrrrrrrrrrrr try an electronic non current based unit.

Not being there, however, hard to say so no warranty whatsoever it could be another problem ???

John T
 
What sort of "flasher?" Standard mechanical flasher is just a circuit breaker that trips, and resets, over and over and over when the right load is on it.

A "HD" flasher is electronic and is not load-dependent.

Regardless - nobody I am aware of "understands" how electricity works. We just predict future behavior based on past behavior - state based on two major and conflicting theories. Electron and Hole.
 
In this case you didn't need to understand electricity. Your problem is purely thermal.

Inside the old school flashers is a bimetallic strip that heats at different rates on each side. One side heats more than the other, causing the strip to bend. When it bends, it moves off the contact, breaking the connection and causing the light to go out. Without electricity to heat it, it cools quickly, straightens, and touches the contact again, turning the light back on.

In this case the bimetallic strip is not getting hot enough to bend, thus a thermal problem.

Only if you hit it with a hammer, and it still doesn't work, is it an electrical problem.
 
the lights are Led type. The flashers all new were mechanical. Two of them. My father told me once a long time ago. If it moves it is biology, if it smells bad it is chemistry and if you just can not figure it out it is electricity. I am having a hard time keeping up with technology. I was always told turn off the lights when you leave the room, with Led lights that may not apply anymore. Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I give up too easily these days.
 
With a led you need a resister or 2 or the mechanical flasher will not work due to the fact the amp draw is way to low for the flasher to do its job.

As far as understanding electricity no one real understands it and there are 2 or 3 theory's as to how it works and no one know which one might be correct. At one time I was a Navy ET meaning I was an electronics technicians. I repaired computers on board the Nuke subs
 


Had a uncle that worked as a maintenance electrician at a local plant, he said there were two important things to remember about electricity.

It is invisible and it will kill you.
 
BarnyardEngineering: "Only if you hit it with a hammer, and it still doesn't work, is it an electrical problem." That would make my friend's son an electrical problem. But electricity is a kind of energy, so that wouldn't apply to him, either.

Stan
 
Geeeeeeeeeee all ya gotta know is good electrical conductors like Copper have an availability of free electrons (Negatively charged particles) orbiting in their outer atomic shell and current is merely the flow of electrons ..........But while the ELECTRONS are flowing in one direction the empty spaces left behind HOLES must be flowing in the opposite direction ya think ??? At Purdue EE school in the sixties we were taught CONVENTIONAL CURRENT flows + to - while ELECTRON CURRENT flows - to +. That makes sense if you consider Opposites attract and Likes repel. Electrons are Negatively charged particles so they flow AWAY from the Like NEG TOWARDS the Opposite POS. It ALSO makes sense if you consider in a battery powered DC circuit for current to flow + to - OUTSIDE the battery (Conventional current), it must be flowing - to + INSIDE the battery (Electron current). Piece of cake right ???????

When I was a kid hanging out in TV repair shops I didn't understand electricity but after Purdue engineering school and nearly fifty years of practice and experience I learned, even if not me, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO INDEED UNDERSTAND ELECTRICITY even if most folks don't......... Its one of those subjects where the more you learn about it the more you realize just how little you know and how much more there is to learn IM STILL TRYING AND ENJOYING THE JOURNEY..........

Best wishes n God Bless Yall

John T Tooooooo long retired EE and rusty as an old nail so NO WARRANTY on the above, things change, memory fades, so this may be wrong as rain grrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
LED light do not pull enough amps to make a flasher unit work. So you either have to install a resistor in the wire feeding power to the lights or you need to get a flasher unit that is not thermally activated.

The cheapest/easiest is just get a flasher unit that is made for LED lights. They are about $11-12 bucks on Amazon or EBay.
a263090.jpg
 
Not enough electrical load to make the flasher work. Scab in a couple more lights and see if that works. If you are using newer LEDs they don't draw much power.
Loren
 
If you ever get a book written by Joe Newman called The Energy Machine, read it & study it and Master it. Then and only then will you know.
 
Thanks Teddy, I will have to check that out. My point was THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND ELECTRICITY even if the typical farmer Billy Bob or Bubba does NOT. Heck how many here understand Brain Surgery ?? not many, but just because some folks here don't understand something DOES NOT MEAN SOME OTHERS CANT !!!!!!!!!!! There are probably plumbers and mechanics and teachers and lawyers and farmers and engineers and technicians here who understand their profession BUT NOT OTHERS and that's natural and to be expected.......To each their own

John T
 
John
Thanks for the EE refresher course. I think you just explained how the transistor works lol
Tony
 
tim s posted pictures of his JD 60 MFWD with flashing LED lights hidden behind the grill- they also had the issue of not drawing enough current to make the standard flasher work, so he wired another standard bulb socket in behind the dash and spray painted the bulb so it did not shine but still drew the current. Just one minor engineering feat on an amazing tractor design/build.
 
Thanks, all a transistor is made of is basically sand to start with lol Sure electricity is hard to understand by a lay person (who wouldn't be expected to understand brain surgery either) but we sent a man to the moon and I'm typing on a computer SO CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME MISTAKENLY THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO INDEED UNDERSTAND ELECTRICITY.

Nice chatting with you

John T
 
With what K said below your original post, you might look for an electronic rather than mechanical flasher. They would more than likely be insensitive to load as they don't rely on a piece of metal getting hot and bending to do the flashing. I guess I have one I installed on my Ford 2000 rear light. Just running a single 1157 I think is the bulb number...(combo running and stop/turn signal), and only one and it flashes just fine.

Other thing is that you may be grounded good to the fender but is it grounded good to the battery????? As I recall on burned out bulbs on my cars and trucks, when that happens and the current is reduced, the flasher doesn't flash.....on the same vehicles, when too much current flows, like when you have a trailer hooked up and you are using a "regular duty" flasher it heats too fast and the lights flash rapidly.

Run a test jumper from your light mounting hardware to your battery negative and see if that solves your problem. If so, clean up your grounds.
 
That's not smoke,it steam. We all know it takes juice for them to work and when they get hot the juice steams and the escapes.
 
The difference between working with electricity and playing with a rattlesnake. You can see the snake when it strikes you, electricity you don't see it! I have a healthy respect for both of them.
 
there are two pronged flashers and 3 prong flashers. The two prong must have the correct load or will not flash..Its designed to stop flashing if one of the two bulbs burns out.. It a warning to the driver. So.. if the two bulbs are too small of wattage, the flasher will not work. Then there was the three prong that used an extra ground for the heating circuit. It was for trucks that could run extra trailer bulbs, that would make the two prong flasher blink really fast. so the three prong flasher would blink at the same speed based on the extra ground, with two bulbs or three bulbs in the circuit. A three prong would even be used for the emergency flashers with 4 bulbs or 6 bulbs.


So either up the bulb wattage, or go the the three prong and run a ground wire....

assuming your not running leds or something weird.
 
(quoted from post at 16:37:13 03/26/18) Geeeeeeeeeee all ya gotta know is good electrical conductors like Copper have an availability of free electrons (Negatively charged particles) orbiting in their outer atomic shell and current is merely the flow of electrons ..........But while the ELECTRONS are flowing in one direction the empty spaces left behind HOLES must be flowing in the opposite direction ya think ??? At Purdue EE school in the sixties we were taught CONVENTIONAL CURRENT flows + to - while ELECTRON CURRENT flows - to +. That makes sense if you consider Opposites attract and Likes repel. Electrons are Negatively charged particles so they flow AWAY from the Like NEG TOWARDS the Opposite POS. It ALSO makes sense if you consider in a battery powered DC circuit for current to flow + to - OUTSIDE the battery (Conventional current), it must be flowing - to + INSIDE the battery (Electron current). Piece of cake right ???????

When I was a kid hanging out in TV repair shops I didn't understand electricity but after Purdue engineering school and nearly fifty years of practice and experience I learned, even if not me, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO INDEED UNDERSTAND ELECTRICITY even if most folks don't......... Its one of those subjects where the more you learn about it the more you realize just how little you know and how much more there is to learn IM STILL TRYING AND ENJOYING THE JOURNEY..........

Best wishes n God Bless Yall

John T Tooooooo long retired EE and rusty as an old nail so NO WARRANTY on the above, things change, memory fades, so this may be wrong as rain grrrrrrrrrrrrr
Conventional Current flow theory started with Benjamin Franklin and was continued by Thomas Edison and on into many universities where it was taught and is still taught this way.
 
This is what I used on a single incandescent bulb. I also tested it using a small LED panel light, and it flashed correctly. It's simple - two wires, and it has a mounting tab built onto it. I don't know how long it will last - I haven't used it much - most of my tractor use is off road and I'm not one to turn the lights on when they aren't needed.
Flasher
 
Chuck FWIW that's how I was taught in Purdue EE School. "Conventional Current" flows + to - while "Electron Crrent"flows - to +. I explained it and the difference down below. Glad to hear other universities do the same even today lol

Best wishes

John T
 
It was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before my time, perhaps back when it first became a Land Grant College in the 1800's. Heck if I know. It does have a reputation as one of the finest engineering colleges in the US

Thanks for asking, sorry I don't know Purdues history, I left there way back in ought 69 LOL

Best wishes

John T
 
Cool, you're young yet........ BSEE Purdue Class of 69, JD Indiana University School of Law 1991........Its been a good ride.

Take care now

John T
 
Electron flow is the movement of the element down the wire and IS the way one has to think when troubleshooting and repairing. + side of the power supply attracts them since it is a negatively charged ion.

Conventional current is "hole flow" and the absence of the (valence) electron which moved in the opposite direction and is how you think when you are designing circuits, especially power supplies and the circuits that are supplied by them. - side of the power supply attracts them. BTDT in both cases.

Couldn't understand the confusion of some folks using hole flow while I was the guy in the ditch with my sleeves rolled up till I started designing circuits instead of repairing them and walla.....the simple way to approach the need and the required supply.
 
YOu state "Couldn't understand the confusion of some folks using hole flow"

FWIW I agree, see my post below. BUT I do understand how a person not experienced or educated in electricity WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND. In fact that's what I would expect. Everyone here cant be an expert on every subject DUH.

As I recall from my EE education electrons are Negatively charged particles and as opposites attract and likes repel those negative charged electrons flow AWAY from the NEG TOWARDS the POS.

When a free available electron in a good conductor like copper gets bumped out of its orbit and moves one way that void OR HOLE moves the opposite way.

Oh well since we sent a man to the moon and are on our home computers I think its FALSE to say NO ONE understands electricity, some obviously DO

Fun sparky chatting with you, thanks for the informative post

John T NOOOOOOO Warranty this is ONLY my recall from 50 years ago and may be wrong grrrrrrrrrrr
 
Everyone was right in some manner or the other. Bought an electronic flasher with ground. Still would not work however when I checked for power using my trusty handheld light the lights flashed as advertised. So I bought a third light and mounted behind the seat and everything is great. I seem to have a bunch of flashers left over, new and unused. Free if you want them.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top