Vent Free Propane/NG Heaters

Married2Allis

Well-known Member
These 'vent free' heaters offered now seem like they would be good for backup heat in the house. Does anyone have one of these and are they safe? Do you not need ventilation?

When I was young and stupid (well stupid-ER) I went on a winter hunting trip and stayed in a house trailer. The only heat in the trailer was a gas stove and we just turned on the burners all night!

6732.jpg
 
I built my house back in 1979 36x40 with an "Earth Stove" brand vented wood stove as the only heat in the house. As the years passed I
added to it and it's up to 2700ish now. I decided on zone heating and cooling due to the layout and method of expansion. Initially I used
the old Dearborn open flame heaters but one day I came across a radiant heater as you have pictured. Was impressed with what I saw and
felt.

Since then, and that's been 30+ years ago I am still using the radiant heater for the primary backup to the wood stove (when temp doesn't
warrant a lot of heat) and to heat the additions, none have been vented. I do supplement with electric heat in the bedrooms and
bathrooms. Depending on your Propane supplier, you may get a slight Sulphur odor from it as it is added to the gas to give it an odor that
you can smell as raw Propane has no odor.

As with any gas appliance, ensure that you are careful with the controls when lighting or changing heat settings and ensure that the
selector in IN the desired position, not part way between positions....no biggie, just pay attention.
 
Hello Married2Allis,

That is a 30k BTU mr. heater We got one at the Pocono house. Download the manual from the website. It has a formula for the amount of square footage needed. The unit has an ODS (Oxygen Replenish Sensor) that will shut the unit off it there is not enough oxygen to support the flame. They are all over the world good unit,

Guido.
 
When we home schooled my daughter I built a small building for that purpose and bought one of those heaters. I thought it was terrible. My wife and daughter would stay in that building and get used to it. I would come in once in a while and it would burn my eyes and nearly choke me from the fumes. I replaced it with electric heat.
 
If you read up on these heats they are not to be used in bedrooms, bathrooms or any other small room and if used in large rooms it should not be used more than 4
hours at a time but if heater ventilated you can run them longer.
 
Added comment: As I started adding to the house and using the Dearborn heater, my first addition was a 30kBTU Dearborn. Upon finding about the radiant heater I thought I needed about the same BTU for it too. So I bought the 5 burner 25kBTU radiant. Guess what; I used the full 5 burners (5kBTU per burner) only once. After that it was 3 burners or less. The point here is that the radiant heats objects, not the air (per se) so objects, like YOU get the most benefit from it when it hits you and I believe their efficiency numbers on pollutants. An oxygen sensor is part of the heater so you don't have to worry about that and the pilot, like most, is flame sensitive...loose it and it shuts off the gas.
 
I have two in my garage. I love them. When I bought them the chart called for only needing one as per the square footage of the garage but I bought two. One is all I need & the second one has only been used once to see if it works. They have a thermostat & require no electricity so power outages are no problem. They produce zero smell. When I added on a family room to my house I put one in that is a fireplace instead of a hanging one. I couldn't be happier with it. Mine are natural gas not propane.
 
Any time you get an LP vent free that stinks or gives off a sulphur smell the heater is not running right. The company that I worked for hauled medical supplies that would freeze and we ran vent free in all the trailers and the only time they would stink is when the combustion of gas was not right.
 

In 2003 we had to replace the roof on moms house due to wind damage, has we removed the roof around the chimney we found that there had been a flue fire that cracked the flue and charred the decking around the chimney, so out came the wood stove.
We replaced it with a Rinnai brand 21000 btu vent free fan convector heater and a 4 panel ventless radiant heater like in the photo.
The two heaters keep the house warm and are very fuel efficient, in 2009 we had a bad ice store and lost power for 10 days, that one little four panel heater kept moms 1200 square foot house at 65 degrees during the outage.
I plan to install a wall mount radiant heater in my shop to back up a window heat and ac unit.

I do advice getting a good quality brand with oxygen and flame sensors, I wouldn't want to trust my life or families life and a cheap knockoff brand heater
 
On the comment about the burner giving off a sulphur smell due to the odorant, that is mercaptan and is odorless when burnt, you have another problem.
 
I have been using them since they first came out, maybe 30 years ago? My first ones were made by Procom. More recently under
the Redstone brand at Tractor Supply. Now - Mr. Heater. I love them and had zero problems. I do not like the open-flame
models or the ones with no thermostat. The catalytic radiant models with thermostats are fantastic.

I have the smallest and largest versions. NG and propane. Have one in a small bathroom. Also have two in a large modern tight
home. Again, zero issues.

I have been hearing all sorts of "gloom and doom" from people for years on Internet forums. I will assume most that complain
have never actually owned one.
 
Stupid people? I am have been using them for 30 years. I will put my "stupidity" up against your's anytime.
 
You do know that these heater are not intended for your primary heat source they are for supplemental backup heat only and is stated so in TSC ad. Those heaters will also shut down if oxygen level gets to low in room.
 
I guess you'd have to define "primary heat source." Also, who the heck cares? I have CO detectors (never gone off) and the heaters have auto-shut-off if oxygen gets low (also never happened).

I have a cabin in the woods with a 30K propane "unvented" heater- so I guess it is fair to say that we use it more then the woodstove - it is kind of primary and works great.

In our house we have two of them. Also have a wood-furnace and a propane furnace. So nothing is 'primary." When weather is moderate outside and temps are in the 40s-50s - one wall-heater keeps the whole house warm. Then temps outside get real cold - one of our furnaces are set at 65, and one of these unvented heaters is run when we are awake in the room we tend to watch TV in.

I also have an insulated workshop. 50 feet by 40 feet. When it gets colder then 30F outside, I heat it full-time with a pellet-stove. When above 30F - a single 30K propane wall-heater is the "primary" heat.
 
We have been using them for 30 years or more, with no problems. We use the kind that has the ceramic catalytic elements that give off radiant heat. Not the blue flame versions. The catalytic versions give off no odor and are extremely efficient. They have oxygen deficiency sensors that will shut them off if the oxygen in the room ever gets too low. These same sensors are the primary cause for these type heaters to refuse to work. They are very sensitive and the slightest obstruction will cause them to shut off. Usually a cobweb or dust lint formed during the off season is the cause.

Having worked in the propane business for many years, I can tell you with certainty that the propane company does not "add sulfur to the propane so you can smell it". The additive is mercaptan, which stinks to high heaven in raw form, but has no odor when burned. If you have an appliance that is giving off an odor, that is a sure sign that it is not functioning correctly and the flame is not as it should be. If your oven or cookstove is giving off an odor, you need to get the burners and/or the air/fuel mixer cleaned.
 
I have a well insulated 28K sq.ft. home with heat pump.
As supplemental heat, I have two sets of unvented natural gas logs in two fireplaces. Chimney is shut off and both log sets are thermostat controlled with blowers to distribute heat to living space.
These are only used when temperature is below 30 degrees.
I had a similar setup in my previous home with unvented LP gas.
As far as smell, when I first come into home from outside, there is a slight smell but is unnoticeable after a couple of breaths.
We love these logs.
 
I think they are good for back up heat. There are some people who are bothered by the "fumes" however small they may be. Keep in mind that whatever is in the air will be pulled thru and burned (for example oil scented plug-ins). If you do research you will find in they recommend fresh air intake to the house at least on a tight house. That said I go to a lot of places where people are using them as the only heat source and really like them.
 
I have one that is the "blue flame" model. It has been in use in my shop for @ 15 years. The shop is 600 sq ft and insulated, but I do go in and out the walk in doors a lot. No issues at all. I do not
leave it burning when I am not in the shop, but it kicks the temp up @ 15 degrees in an hour.
 
It depends on the state(some states don't allow vent free heaters at all) but otherwise you can use a 6000 btu in a bath and 12000 btu in a bedroom per code depending on cubic feet. Just FYI the cubic feet of air for combustion applies to anything not just vent free.
 
It's hard to get people to under stand that these are portable stand by heaters not meant to be your main heating source. My FIL & MIL almost died because of one of these style heaters that oxygen shut down failed. I have gas heat but it is vented.
 
I know what you're saying. I see it with a lot of issues, kind of like " I haven't died yet so it must be ok" Like I said vent free are good for back up but there must be a reason they are not allowed in nursing homes, day cares and such.
 

I've been using them for years and quite happy with them. My house is old and has leaky windows, so I get plenty of outside air coming in.
I have CO detectors and they have never gone off.
 

There's no point in trying to reason with you guys that like to breath potentially hazardous combustion products, we've been through all that on here before, and many of us here despise/mistrust the EPA, but FWIW, here's their opinion of what you guys are breathing... FUN stuff, especially the last three lines!!



143eumo.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:33 11/26/17) I have been using them since they first came out, maybe 30 years ago? My first ones were made by Procom. More recently under
the Redstone brand at Tractor Supply. Now - Mr. Heater. I love them and had zero problems. I do not like the open-flame
models or the ones with no thermostat. The catalytic radiant models with thermostats are fantastic.

I have the smallest and largest versions. NG and propane. Have one in a small bathroom. Also have two in a large modern tight
home. Again, zero issues.

I have been hearing all sorts of "gloom and doom" from people for years on Internet forums. I will assume most that complain
have never actually owned one.

JDEM, the frequent voice of reason..
The doom and gloom folks should have listened in chemistry class.... Burning propane or natural gas with complete combustion (enough oxygen in the environment) produces CO2 and H2O (Carbon Dioxide and water vapor), which also is what we exhale.

Add in the built-in O2 sensor, safer and more efficient than many fireplaces. Burning anything inside, I would have a CO detector though, as an added safety measure.
 
Since products of combustion are dumped into the space you can?t beat 100% efficiency.
 
(quoted from post at 12:01:22 11/26/17) It's hard to get people to under stand that these are portable stand by heaters not meant to be your main heating source. My FIL & MIL almost died because of one of these style heaters that oxygen shut down failed. I have gas heat but it is vented.

And that makes it safe??

When we bought the ventless heaters for moms house I got them from my gas supplier, top quality Rinnai heaters. We told them that whatever we put in would be the only heat source, even though they also sell vented heaters they said the ventless would be fine and would use less gas, is coming from a company that sells gas for a living.

As for vented heaters a few weeks ago several of my cousins or their wife's attended a baby shower for one of the younger cousins.
It was held at a local public building of around 3000 square feet with a vented furnace. While the event was going on several of the ladies started getting light headed and shortly after some of the babies and small children started passing out. At that point one of my cousins became alarmed and started assuring everyone out while calling 911.
All 35 there had to be treated on the scene, 16 went to the hospital and 9 had to stay over night. The Fire Dept's CO detector pegged out as soon as they entered the door, something in the furnace had malfunctioned.

So putting ones faith in a vented system could be just as fatal as a ventless system.

I guess if we want to be safe from any flame type heating system, we should all have a outdoor water stove installed or go all electric.
 
I have been using these heaters for over 30 years and have experienced NONE of the symptoms you posted. I was in my early
30s when I started using them? 65 now. I think I have better things to worry about. I know for sure my body has suffered a
lot more from working on old trucks and tractors.

I will also note that we have CO detectors all over our place. Had one go off once or twice from a woodstove. Never had one
go off from one of these non hard-vented heaters.

I suppose you have never actually used one yourself, yet are sure those of us who do are suffering from it?

What perplexes me on this forum is how some people actually seem to get angry when others give positive reports for these
heaters? Why such an emotional deal?

The original poster here asked for people to chime in who have actually used these heaters. That is all some of us are
doing. I am not going to lie and say I hate them to make someone feel better.
 
"I have been using these heaters for over 30 years and have experienced NONE of the symptoms"

LOTS of cancer victims were around asbestos for 30 years or more with no symptoms... and THEN???

And, yes, I've used and been around the wretched things. Even so called "clean burning" units irritate both my eyes and sinuses almost as much as diesel smoke, and I've chosen to no longer be around them.

To me it simply makes NO sense to deliberately release combustion gases that could be just as well vented outside into living or work spaces and BREATHING the potentiality dangerous chemicals.

But, your life, and your health, and your choice! HAVE AT IT!
 
Seems to me if you feel you have a valid complaint and/or warning you might include an actual type, make or model of the heater you are ranting about? They certainly are not all the same.

Thank you for your permission for me to live my life as I see fit. How benevolent of you.
 
Back in the 1990's I worked for a manufacturers rep and one of the lines we carried was Desa International out of Bowling Green, KY. Among other things, they manufactured vent free blue flame and radiant gas (LP or Natural) heaters. These heaters produced as much carbon monoxide as a cigarette burning. And they were all equipped with a ODS which is a pilot light called a oxygen depletion sensor. The pilot burned on the themocouple on the horizontal, and the thermocouple was on the vertical. When oxygen was being depleted, the pilot flame started "hunting" for oxygen and would lift up off the thermocouple. The thermocpuple would then cool down and turn the gas valve off. I have never heard of anyone being killed or injured by a ventless heater. There are many stories of vented heaters becoming plugged, or heat exchangers cracking and leaking, and making people sick, or killing them. it's interesting how these wives tales get started.
 
Let me add a little: My son has over 50 tropical fish tanks in his basement (he raises Killifish) and I suggested he get one in case he lost his power. Well, he did lose his power, and lost it for a week. Without that blue flame heater, he would have lost all his fish, as it was, he lost 3 fish. If you have one in your basement, it will keep you from freezing up. But, do not try to do ALL your heating with vent free heaters. Odd as it sounds, moisture is in the gas we burn, and a vented heater sends it up the chimney. Heating with all ventfree will cause your house to massively sweat with water running down the walls and windows. One or two should be fine, it depends on how loose your house is. And by the way, Desa is no longer in business.
 
The basic design heater was around in the early 1960s. I still have one here. No oxygen-depletion sensor back then but I never heard of any tragedies with them.. Only issue was they'd get what was called a "poisoned grid." All that meant was that the catalytic grid would plug up and die. No fix to it and to the garbage it went. No CO issues though. It would just stop working.

I have two houses that sit empty all winter. Both have propane furnaces set at 45 degrees to keep the pipes from freezing. Both also have 30K BTU unvented heaters set to low as back-ups in case power goes out or the main furnaces die.

Here is ad for one of the heaters in 1974. I wonder how many thousands of poor folk have died since then because no one from YT warned them of their evils?
a179117.jpg
 
The heater in the link is the one I have. It is 8000 BTU vented
with a sealed combustion chamber. It mounts on the wall and
uses outside air. There is also a 15000 BTU model. Mine is natural gas but it also
use propane.
Vented Heater
 
I see the specs don't even give the actual heat-output of that 8K model. Probably 6600 BTU? Maybe even less. That is one of the nice advantages of the unvented models. More heat per gas used. Also more heat for less then half the price.
 
One more thing: With these types of heaters, the only problem we had was people that do a lot of frying put a lot of grease into the air and it would get drawn through the burners accumulating on them, sometimes causing an odd smell. The burners that this type of people had would have to be removed and cleaned yearly, sometimes more often. Not a real big job, but necessary. Also, the blue flame heaters heated the air, and the radiant heaters were more directional, and heated objects and people, depending how they were aimed. I personally liked the blue flame heaters, but your preference might depend on your needs.
 
(quoted from post at 02:21:03 11/27/17) The heater in the link is the one I have. It is 8000 BTU vented
with a sealed combustion chamber. It mounts on the wall and
uses outside air. There is also a 15000 BTU model. Mine is natural gas but it also
use propane.
Vented Heater

I recently installed the exact same one in part of our house--except I use propane. I like it.

No, it's not as efficient as the blue flame unvented it replaced. And, I'm not going to say the unvented are unsafe or anything. But I'm glad I made the switch. No moisture released in that room now which is nice. And the unvented one always had a slight smell of burned propane or something. Maybe other unvented models burn better.

We heat the main rooms of our house with a Jotul direct vent propane stove. Exact same principle as your lilnk, but much nicer looks. (And a much higher price.)

We also have electric in parts of the house. (At local prices electric and propane are nearly the same price per BTU, once adjusted for slightly less than 100% propane efficiency with the vented models.) But it's nice to have heat even if the electric goes out in a storm.
 
Hello D beatty,

They are all over the world were the are no restrictions on their use,
Except in California and Canada, I stand correted,



Guido.
 
If these heaters are so good why has Canada and California banned them and about 8 states have banned them in some of their large cities and one state any town over 2,500 people. I have not used one but have had in laws that used one of them that failed and almost cost them their life. I heat with Wood , Gas, and baseboard Electric. I use the wood with the gas or electric which ever is cheaper at the time as back up for teens and colder. I see the day coming soon that I won't be making wood and will be using the other two for main heat. I have tried straight electric for a several months and it actually keeps the whole house at a stable temperature better than gas or wood.
 
I would hate to even guess how many years I have had the unvented heaters in my house on propane. NO moisture problems anyplace, Have 5 in house now of both types.
 
Some of the vented heaters are only 75-85% efficient. That is a big difference from the 99% of the unvented heaters.

About odors. My old Blue Flame made by ProCom has open flames like a gas range and has a slight smell at times. When I
switched to catalytic plaque types, Redstone and Mr. Heater brands - no odor at all.
 

I have had one in my shop for 12 years and I love it. I never have any odors or any indication of combustion taking place, but the building is not super tight either with two overhead doors. Buddy has one at his camp which is very tight. Never any odor there either. A huge bonus to these is the moisture given off. You may be able to forego using a humidifier, and save on electricity there too.
 
When I had the LP business I started selling those, been 25 or 30 years ago. A few of them are still in use.
I still have a new one in a box, gonna install it in my new room one of these days. As far as California
banning them, heck you can hardly buy a gas powered lawn mower there.
 
There can be a large differences in how air tight new houses are compared to older houses and also between houses in cold climates compared the houses in warm climates. My brother commented that the house he rented in San Antonio, Texas was draftier than the ice fishing shack he had in Minnesota.

If a house is tight enough to need combustion air piped to the main furnace and an air exchanger to ventilate the living areas, I would not try to use a vent-less heater in that same house.
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:55 11/28/17) There can be a large differences in how air tight new houses are compared to older houses and also between houses in cold climates compared the houses in warm climates. My brother commented that the house he rented in San Antonio, Texas was draftier than the ice fishing shack he had in Minnesota.

If a house is tight enough to need combustion air piped to the main furnace and an air exchanger to ventilate the living areas, I would not try to use a vent-less heater in that same house.

ss55, while that is a good point, I see no real correlation there. While it is true that a heating system in even a moderately tight house will work better with outside air piped in for combustion, presence of a system for piping in outside air does not disqualify any structure for the installation an unvented propane heater. Conversely, absence of such a system does not make a house safe for an unvented heater. New heating system installs include combustion air intakes pretty much as a matter of course, simply because they save fuel.
 
I'd like one or the other in a bathroom that's in an addition off of what used to be a porch. We currently heat most of the house with a woodstove, but even the propane central heat never did a good job way out there.

I was thinking I wanted vented, as the bathroom is moist anyway? I'd like something small (just to heat that room) and something I could put on a programmable thermostat to heat it up around 5 am and then let it cool down the rest of the day, then heat up again for the kids evening showers, etc.

Suggestions?
 
(quoted from post at 08:53:41 11/29/17) I'd like one or the other in a bathroom that's in an addition off of what used to be a porch. We currently heat most of the house with a woodstove, but even the propane central heat never did a good job way out there.

I was thinking I wanted vented, as the bathroom is moist anyway? I'd like something small (just to heat that room) and something I could put on a programmable thermostat to heat it up around 5 am and then let it cool down the rest of the day, then heat up again for the kids evening showers, etc.

Suggestions?

Bob, I think that for your situation, provided that you have adequate insulation to prevent any freeze-up when it is really cold, I would put in an electric heater on a timer, to come on only when you really need the heat. This would probably require a timer controlling a relay. When I bought my old house 1989 it had just been all rehabbed, but the main bathroom upstairs had only a 220V electric heater, which I think that the building inspector made the contractor install. As soon as I bought the place I ran a heating system loop through the wall from the next room in order to have constant economical heat. I retained the electric heater so that in the morning before the place is really heated up it can quickly become very comfortable. Electric, though expensive to run, is cheap to install, and you won't need to run it a lot.
 
I am going to add a couple of comments on this subject. Unvented gas heaters
are considered to be an alternative heating system by insurance companies. The
policy on requirements for these systems vary between insurers. Some insurance
companies require that the installation of an alternative system is done under
a permit and approved by the local building inspector. I saw Allstate
mentioned as one insurer that may have this requirement. Since insurance
companies are very good at finding an "out" for not covering a loss, if you
have an alternative heating system and have homeowner's insurance, it would be
wise to speak with your local agent to make sure that your system is allowed
under the policy.

Second, gas detection sensors have a limited lifespan. If you have a carbon
monoxide detector in your home, just be aware that it will have an expiration
date printed or listed somewhere on the unit. A typical lifespan is about 5
years. If your unvented heater has an ODP (oxygen depletion sensor), does the
manufacturer list the life expectancy of this sensor in the product literature
or on the heater? Based on my experience with providing various types of gas
sensors and systems for industrial and commercial buildings, I would not trust
any gas detector that has been in service more than five years. More expensive
sensors can be recalibrated by a lab, however the inexpensive CO detectors and
oxygen depletion sensors in this discussion would need to be replaced when
their rated lifespan is over. I am guessing that the ODP sensors are not a
field replaceable part, so when they are past their lifespan it would be time
to replace the heater.
 
Considering the percentage of morons that make up the general population I can understand that! No way would I be the OEM for anything, especially when a warranty was involved.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top