harold9735
Member
I have a 1964 ford 4000, 6V, that has the red light to indicate if the batter is charging. I want to add an amp meter and still have the red light. How do I go about installing the amp meter? This tractor has a 6 Volt Generator.
ot the correct place to wire it. It should be placed in the wire connecting the battery side of start solenoid to the Battery (B) terminal of voltage regulator. That was it sees everything in the way of current both going into battery & out of battery, except of course starter motor current.(quoted from post at 15:58:59 06/15/17) I did that. Wired it to the hot wire coming from the switch (key). But it didn't show charge or discharge. The needle didn't move. I can see it wouldn't show charge if the VR was working but it should at least show a discharge. I put on a rebuilt generator and polarized the generator.
o avoid cutting into harness, disconnect the yellow highlighted wire at the solenoid & at the VR and add the red wires to ammeter.(quoted from post at 16:23:18 06/15/17) That wiring harness is factory braided and I don't want to cut into that if I don't have to. Can I just run a separate wire from the switch to the VR battery connection with the meter in line in that wire. Wouldn't work the same? Sure do appreciate you expert help in solving this problem.
.5 v is too low. Try jumpering F to A while running & monitoring that voltage & see if it jumps up. If yes, then use heavy paper to clean contacts, not file.(quoted from post at 17:49:15 06/23/17) Thanks JMOR,
I did polarize the generator and VR prior to starting. This is a new VR but probably after being installed is not under warranty. I will check that out. Some one told me to just file the contacts and it should work. The generator is putting out 6.5 volts so It must be a VR problem. I installed the amp meter and when I turn the key on it shows a slight discharge But will not show a charge when running.
would ask that you be certain about that G wire to coil, because I can not see it running that way, regardless on neg or pos gnd. Batt connections and polarizing is all that is necessary. Some, for esthetics value will swap coil connections, but that is unnecessary, won't start or run any differently swapped or not.(quoted from post at 11:59:43 06/24/17) I see on the diagram that the G wire from the generator runs direct to the G on the voltage regulator . There is no G terminal on the VR only A F & B. However there is a wire attached to the mounting screw on the VR. That is some kind of ground to the chassis I think. Mine is now wired direct from the G on the generator to the negative side of the coil. I'm thinking someone tried to change this to a neg ground. When I got the tractor it was neg ground. Don't have a clue as to what needed to be done to change from the original Pos to Neg. other then the battery connection and polarize the VR/GEN.
es, pos gnd battery install and polarize by removing field connectio from VR and applying bAttery neg to gen field for one second and this sets residual magnetism in. Pole pieses so that gen will output neg voltage. When testing, measure batt neg or armature voltage.(quoted from post at 11:31:19 06/25/17) I have a friend coming today to help me trace all the wiring. Looks like the wiring should come from the terminal block to the coil and then run to the distributor. Will also do the gen voltage test you recommended. [color=red:c4d2521bc7]With the F and B jumped how do I probe to test the gen output (F to B)?[/color:c4d2521bc7]
The tractor was originally built as a Pos ground. I don't know but was the gen built as a positive ground gen? Are you telling me that all I need to do to make it a neg gound is hook the battery up as neg ground and polarize the VR and Gen. This make since to me but I don't know much about the electrical system and can't find anyone local that does. Glad you are responding and helping me so much.
"If you still don't charge, jump the "F" terminal of the generator to ground; you will get all the generator can give."(quoted from post at 23:12:30 06/25/17) Harold, with the tractor running, measure the output of the generator "G" terminal, sometimes also labeled "A", relative to ground. That is, black wire to chassis ground, red to generator armature terminal. If the gnerator puts out positive voltage, it's polarized for negative ground. If it puts out negative voltage, it's pos ground. If you want to use negative ground, hook your battery up that way, and jump positive battery voltage to the "G" or "A" terminal for two seconds and release. This can be done at the regulator, across the "B" and "G" or "A" terminals if it's easier. The tractor should not be running at the time. After that you should have a positive output from the generator, even if it's only a volt or so. If you still don't charge, jump the "F" terminal of the generator to ground; you will get all the generator can give. Check it at 2500 or 3000 rpm, that old 6V won't give much at idle. If the generator puts out well while full-fielded like that, but still won't charge without, replace the damaged regulator with one that is rated pos or neg ground. Yes they're available.
would not connect A to ground! B to A is ok.(quoted from post at 08:27:23 06/26/17) Will I fry the VR points if I polarize from [color=red:40ba243f55]B to A[/color:40ba243f55], or by connecting the Generator from[color=red:40ba243f55] A to Ground[/color:40ba243f55], or both?
These are two things I haven't tried yet,
have no doubt that it can be a 'standard test' on some generator systems, but not all machines are alike. Are you familiar with the system on THIS tractor? Ground the field on this one and you try to put the full capacity of the battery (hundreds of amps) thru contacts designed for about 2 amps. Not going to be pretty.(quoted from post at 08:41:13 06/26/17) Grounding the field terminal is what the voltage regulator does in order to create enough magnetic field for the armature to spin through. This is a standard diagnostic test, I still use it regularly, and it's never caused any damage.
t is the difference between type 'A' ( internally excited/externally grounded) and type 'B' (externally excited/internally grounded. Ford tractors switched from type 'A' after the 8N, to type 'B' from the NAA until alternators came on the scene. Simply a matter of switching ground or switching power. Full field type 'B' by jumper Field to ARM. As you said, full field type 'A' by jumper Field to ground.(quoted from post at 22:07:56 06/26/17) OK, I am not omniscient. That is a safe and standard test on every generator system I've ever seen, and that amounts to hundreds. Most automotive, to be sure, but a few (mostly Ford) tractor systems also, and most recently my Case. I've never seen a generator/regulator that excited the field with "hot" current at the field terminal, always grounded it. That's why polarization is crucial; the field winding takes power from the armature, generated by residual magnetism, the regulator grounds it to increase the voltage, when it gets to battery voltage it connects to the battery and starts reducing the field current so it won't overcharge. No reason you couldn't design it to use battery power to excite the field, but I'd think it would be more expensive to build it that way.
suppose, just to mess with out minds, Ford used the type "B" gen & VR for the first 12,500 production in1938, then went to a 3 brush, manual output adjusted generator(s) using a simple cut out (no VR) from 1940-1947 until, the 8N (1948-1952) using type "A", until switching to type"B" again with the NAA in 1953. They were just having too much fun.(quoted from post at 09:23:41 06/27/17) I stand corrected; guess I'm not too old to learn something.
color=red:32ae2f9541][/color:32ae2f9541][color=red:32ae2f9541]B to A should cause no damage[/color:32ae2f9541](quoted from post at 13:18:03 06/29/17) Good diagram. So I just disconnect the wires from the F and the B on the VR and touch them together and then reconnect. Should I still get a spark? [color=red:32ae2f9541]yes, small spark
[/color:32ae2f9541]
Up to now I have been jumping the terminals with the wires connected to the VR.I can't just jump from F to B with the wires connected to the VR. [color=red:32ae2f9541]no, you don't want field contacts trying to carry 30 times rated current![/color:32ae2f9541]
Hope I didn't damage the VR by jumping from B to A for neg ground.
pparently gen has no output. yes, voltage readings are result of your battery, not generator.(quoted from post at 15:00:35 06/29/17) I polarized for a type "B" VR per instructions. With the tractor running I get a positive 6V at the battery post. I also get positive 6V with black lead on A and red lead on B. I don't get anything from A on barrel of generator to chassis ground.
Maybe my rebuilt generator isn't putting out anything and all the readings I'm getting are coming from the battery.
Does this sound logical?
ECAUSE you do not have 6v on generator Field(quoted from post at 17:05:37 06/30/17) I did a continuity check on all the wires disconnected at both end. Checks OK. I also ran a separate test wire from the Gen F to the VR F and the Gen A to the VR A. Still the same 6v coming from the battery.
What I can't understand is why the Generator bench tests at 8 Volts but I can't get anything testing from the Generator A to ground.
HE problem that I see on the tractor is that you do not measure the same voltage at both ends of the same wire, that is, at VR Field and generator Field. Something is wrong there.(quoted from post at 20:51:08 06/30/17) Don't know how it was wired on the bench test. I know it was set up as positive ground with 6V. I did see the gauge and it was reading 8V with 23 amps. There were leads coming from the Gen A and F fields to the test setup machine.
My VR reads from left to right A=F-B. It would seem to me that the only possible connection is Gen A to VR A, Gen F to VR F. There is also a G marked on the Gen. I think that is a ground that goes up to the VR. The VR B terminal goes to the solenoid.
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