Never Seize on a Torqued Bolt

I know this has been asked before but I want to revisit it. I like to use anti seizing material on bolts that see a lot of moisture exposure and dirt. I know the universal caution is to torque only clean dry bolts. Is there any way I can use Never Seize and still get a reasonably accurate torque reading, maybe a standard reduction in the torque value.
 
I know on our natural gas compressors at work there is torque specs based off different lubricants for various parts. You can probably find a sheet somewhere.
 
Add a drop of red Loctitie to your bolts over the never -seize and torque to spec. It will not need to be re-torqued in most cases.
 
Bill: It's quite possible you'll see a wide range of replies on this one, as there's lots of opinions out there, but in general, clamp loads for a given torque tend to be more consistent, and are achieved at lower torques, when bolts are lubricated, leading many procedures involving torques to specify lubricating the fastener (and under the bolt head as well) in order to increase the consistency of the clamping force in a bolted joint. With that said, I have seen published guidance by anti-seize companies advising to lower torque values 25% when using lubrication (anti-seize counting as lubrication for this purpose) and that's probably a decent number for you to use. Again, there's tons of opinions on the subject, and short of doing your own analysis in your own application it's impossible to say if this will be accurate for you, but it's at least a start.
 
No on your assumption. There are published wet (what you want) and dry, clean and dirty torque specs out there. Just keep looking.
 
dr, I've never tried combining Lock-tite and anti seize.

Are you saying Lock-tite over the anti seize on the threads?

Or under the head, away from the anti seize?

I've had Lock-tite fail just from not cleaning the cutting oil off the threads. What am I missing here?
 
A "rule of thumb" that is relatively accurate is to reduce the torque down to the next lower grade of hardware when dealing with a lubricated joint. For example, if you have lubricated grade 8 hardware use the dry torque spec for a grade 5 of equal size. "Lubricated" can mean several things such as having a hardened plain washer under the nut or the use of wax-coated prevailing torque lock nuts - it includes more factors than just oil.

The required torque to achieve a desired clamp load is an elusive target and requires a lot of testing to get right. Even then, we've had problems on our production line such as when the locknuts come in with a more-than-usual amount of wax coating and we end up stretching bolts in half at the same torque that worked fine a week before. Or, accidentally getting a little oil on a joint that doesn't call for it can cause the same problems. Like TimV said, for critical joints it's best to always lubricate the threads and face and use hardened plain washers under the bolt head and nut to eliminate as many variables as possible.
 
(quoted from post at 19:43:12 04/17/17) dr, I've never tried combining Lock-tite and anti seize.

Are you saying Lock-tite over the anti seize on the threads?

Or under the head, away from the anti seize?

I've had Lock-tite fail just from not cleaning the cutting oil off the threads. What am I missing here?

I, as well, would like to see an explanation.
 
(quoted from post at 13:46:49 04/17/17) I know this has been asked before but I want to revisit it. I like to use anti seizing material on bolts that see a lot of moisture exposure and dirt. I know the universal caution is to torque only clean dry bolts. Is there any way I can use Never Seize and still get a reasonably accurate torque reading, maybe a standard reduction in the torque value.

Actually, the recommended torque spec is for clean, lightly oiled threads. Not dry.
 
Never-seize first then red loctitie right on top . I use it on Harley motors and you will not have to re-torque head bolts or base nuts.
 
This is an interesting test report and mirrors some of the same work I've done when determining the proper fastener torque on the equipment I design. There's a few things about the test that should be noted, however. The author stated that the test apparatus had a bearing under the nut so the only friction was in the threads but this isn't realistic in the vast majority of bolted joint applications. This is why the tension didn't increase as much with an oiled joint as it would in the real world where the friction under the nut or bolt head (whichever end is being torqued) is very substantial. Also, his statement that dry joints gave the most consistant tension also ignores the fact that oil is often unintentionally present in many real-world cases. If one joint is dry but the next has a bit of oil under the nut and both are torqued to the same level the resulting tension will be very different. So, in the real world I'd say that lubricated joints are more consistent because it eliminates a significant variable.

In case folks are curious the test apparatus that we have at work consists of a thin hydraulic chamber with the test bolt running through a hole through the middle. It is important to use washers identical to what the bolt will be used with in the actual application. As the bolt is torqued the hydraulic pressure in the chamber increases and a calibrated pressure gauge is marked to read out directly in tension. Kind of a fun tool to use and it really points out the variables that can come into play. These variables are the reason that although torque is the quickest and easiest way to tension bolts it is also one of the least consistant.
 
Like a lot of people are replying, many fasteners have a lub spec depending upon the joint you are going to torque. Anti seize will work fine in most cases of machinery use.

Never, but never use anti seize on lug nuts!
 
(quoted from post at 17:28:58 04/21/17) Like a lot of people are replying, many fasteners have a lub spec depending upon the joint you are going to torque. Anti seize will work fine in most cases of machinery use.

Never, but never use anti seize on lug nuts!

Well thank you Mr. Kellyss but there are plenty of lug nuts around this place that will continue to get anti-seize on them. I have always and will continue to rely on the correct stretch of the bolt rather than rust in the threads to keep my lug nuts securely in place. Around home or farm you can always grab the torch and cut the nut off when the bolt turns in it's hole in the hub, not so easy to do when miles and hours from home. There is an old saying: never say never.
 
(quoted from post at 01:28:58 04/22/17) Like a lot of people are replying, many fasteners have a lub spec depending upon the joint you are going to torque. Anti seize will work fine in most cases of machinery use.

[b:9f5b8a4091]Never, but never use anti seize on lug nuts![/b:9f5b8a4091]

Could you please expand on this? I've been using never seize on lug nuts for over 30 years, and consider it to be the surest way of getting the nuts back off again. Especially on things that don't get their tires rotated regularly. Every car and truck that I have worked on (This includes my vehicles, my families' vehicles, and my friends vehicles.) during this time gets never seize before the nuts go back on.
 
I stand corrected. I don't use it on any automotive lug nuts, but I don't have anything that stays outside in the weather to corrode them up.

I guess I should of thought of all the vehicles that sit a bunch before making my comment.
 
Sure. If you torque the nuts to the manufactures specs with anti seize on the threads your under torquing the nut. Most manufactures provide specs with dry threads. Big difference. But if your a grease monkey and zip them nuts down until the impact wrench warps your rotors, you will probably be ok.
 
I am kind of curious on how you measure your "correct bolt stretch" on lugs?
Impact tight must be always right for you too.
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:10 04/23/17) I am kind of curious on how you measure your "correct bolt stretch" on lugs?
Impact tight must be always right for you too.

Correct bolt stretch is measured by correct torque for the given lube or dry.
 

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