OT: 2x12 header

Slowpoke

Well-known Member
I have to cut one ceiling 2x12 joist back about 2 feet from the top plate and install a 2x12 header to allow opening for a furnace vent.
Joists are on 12" centers.
I can put a hanger on each side joist, BUT one joist has two side by side 1/2" water pipes along the bottom edge.
They protrude about 5-1/4" from the joist. The code says max end notch for 2x12 is 2-7/8" long by 1-7/8 deep. Even if I sistered another short 24" 2x12 to the joist
(which probably is not acceptable) the notch would have to be 3-3/4" long and about 2"+ deep.
Would double 2x12 headers allow for a 5-14" x 2"+ notch on each header?
I'm also contending with knob & tube wiring that has to be moved. I have a mechanical permit for the work good till May, but code enforcement is threatening to fine me $2500/day
because I'm taking too long to get it all figured out and do it.
It is a nightmare......
This has to pass inspection.
Thanks,
Slowpoke
 
Some thing I have done that is strong and does not take up as much room is to use steel to reinforce the headers. It sounds like you need to have 4 inches to clear the pipes. So take 1/4 x 8 inch steel and sandwich the two headers on each side of the one your taking out. You just through drill the steel/wood and bolt it all together. You could even have the cross bridge made out of steel with and hanger made on the side of it to attach the header your cutting off.
 
The attached drawing poses two solutions. (assuming I understand what is going on. The first is to make a steel plate to go behind the header and is bolted to it. It would look just like the header in my illustration but have two bent flanges to bolt to the joists on either side, going away from the header (away from the opening.
The second is to place 2X6s as shown bridging the weak joist and having a 1/4" plate laminated in it. using joist hangers, the bridge would be attached to the weak joist with hangers to support it and bridge the double joist and one on each side farther than the header. Best I have. The second only works if the joists are in the attic or open to access. Jim
a152995.jpg
 
I think your easiest solution is to just double the 2x12 at the end. Probably the single board at the end with the notch would be enough to support the joist but if you are worried about the inspection I can't see them red tagging a doubled 2x12. I see houses all the time where plumbers cut 6" to 7" diameter holes through joists to run 4" drain pipe. Some of which pass through all the joists of a room. It's a wonder the entire room doesn't collapse.
 
Might take a good picture of it, and go to HIS office, see what he recommends. See what he will or will not buy, before you fix it. In the end result, that's all that matters anyway. You never know what an inspector is thinking!
 
Cut the pipe. Install new wood. Drill clearance hole for pipe to pass and reconnect.

A hole thru a structural member is far stronger than notching the bottom side. Holes near the center are nearly a non issue. Top half of the beam is in compression. Bottom is in tension. Center is very little force on it.

My thoughts.
 
Not enough clearance to rethread and holes would be less than 2" from bottom edge of 2x12.
 
I 'm sure it would, but the opening is already small to work in. Adding 3 members will take up more space.
Thanks for the reply.
 
Nice drawing. The leg itself would be about 3" wide, 2" long, I'm not sure if a hanger nail there would break off the leg. If it did, the notch would reach to the end of the member anyway, no leg. A 2x12 hanger would still fit and hold from the notch. I would use a 1" x 20" "U" nailing strap right next to the notch at the full width of the member.
It would hold the wood from splitting and I would also use a round corner cut to form the notch. The length of the 2x12 header is about 30-1/2"and a closet is above on the second floor.


Thanks
 
I believe the code allows a single header if the length is less than 40 something inches. The header is 30-1/2". Trying to keep costs down, the double 2x12 hanger is about $4.25 locally, I bought single hangers for $1 on the net. $4 vs. $17.....
Thanks for the input.
 

Do you have a decent relationship with your inspector?

Whenever I had something like this, I'd ask him to swing by when he was doing his daily rounds and he would give me a couple of ways to make it work.

That worked better than me going to their office and trying to explain what I wanted to do.

And you really need to have the guy that is going to sign it off; I've had other inspectors tell me something, do it and the guy signing the permit wasn't happy with it.

I made an effort to do everything by the book and better. The guy that I bought the land from was an ex-cowboy and he just did what he wanted, without any permits.

So I needed to demonstrate that I wasn't a cowboy.
 
I think the city has several inspectors, no office hours and probably a stiff charge if one comes out to chat.
 
It sounds like you may be at a standstill and without a plan to go forward. I have to agree with El Hombre, get an inspector out to look at it and between to two of you work out a plan for what to do. I doubt that will cost you any extra. It will also be much easier to get a time extension if an inspector is aware of your situation. If it works out that you need to hire someone to complete the work within two months your time is getting short.
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:39 03/03/17) I think the city has several inspectors, no office hours and probably a stiff charge if one comes out to chat.

My county had at least 4, but I saw the same one over 4 years.

They try to have the same one work the same area, then we got used to what he liked to see.

I would ask the guy you see the most to visit during his normal work day, he'll probably only be a few minutes away in a city.

Leave it up to him for a time to meet. He'll come in, look at what you're fighting and give you a fix in about a minute.

At least call the building department and find out what their actual policy is....
 
move the pipes, i KNOW what you going thru i picked my whole house up last april and still working on it today. water pipes can be moved or spiced with the new stuff they have today to use. I replaced ALLwater lines in my project.
 

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