Need an antenna upgrade, suggestions?

circus

Member
Eastern Wisconsin 75 miles of rolling hills to the broadcast stations. Now I have a 40 year old 75 mile boosted roof antenna and rotor. Worked fine before digital but now instead of occasional graininess I get freeze frame, black flashing and pixelation. Any suggestions on a new antenna?
 
Here in the Ozarks mountains my mom has an antenna that I installed when they switched o digital that looks like a flying saucer. I got it at a radio shake but other store should have them. We are at least 75 mil form any stations and she gets every one there is with no problems and it has built in rotatory to aim the antenna
 
Best bet the largest most powerful outdoor ant you can afford. I am also in eastern WI, with signal in the area being from Green Bay.

Before the switch (using the turn knobs on the TV) we had a few channels, more if neighbor had the dish on.(sounds weird but true)

Since the digital switch we lost several channels(that use to come in great) then during chopping season for the BTO's near by....we loose more ( or all in the greenhouse) when they go by with the trucks and equipment. We updated the TV and got one of those square indoor multi-direction...no improvement.

here is a link that has a antenna guide and a way to find where your signals come in from and how strong of receiver you'd need.
Antenna
 
My antenna is close to 50 years old and may be missing an ear or two. We still get probably 30 or 40 channels out of Atlanta. A lot of it is old shows but we watch mostly old stuff. Get what you pay for and I don't pay at all. I can't complain.
 
Nothing has changed with TV antennas in 50 years. You just need an antenna with high gain in VHF and UHF and with a good preamp mounted on the antenna. Winegard HD8200U is one of the biggest and highest gain. Having a preamp is a must in many places. Channel Master CM7777 even though it comes from China now is still one of the best.

Antenna is $120 and preamp is $68.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd8200u

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=cm-7777

If you want an antenna that is more compact but with near the same performance for $130 - this one works well.

http://dennysantennaservice.com/hd_stacker_tv_antenna-html.html
 
Perhaps a signal booster would take up the slack. I'm literally on the outside edge of the broadcast range in my area. I had a 120 mi. range antenna and when they changed to digital I could only get a couple channels. Then my son installed a signal booster and I'm able to get all channels now.
 
I've had great results with either 1) ClearStream 4V or 2) Channel Master 4228 antennas, both used with Weingard 28dB amplifiers. The ClearStream 4V seemed to be more omni-directional than the Channel Master. It pulls in stations from three different directions without a rotor.
 
With the digital change, they also moved most of the broadcasts from the VHF (very high frequency) band to the UHF (ultra high frequency) band. UHF radio waves don't propagate the same. You will notice shorter range, drop outs, and atmospheric interruptions. Last few days, we've lost even "local" stations, yesterday, we lost several stations most all day. Not unusual to have interruptions at daybreak and dusk. Tis the nature of the beast. All you can do is improve your antenna, and hope for the best. Height is your friend, and if you can get antenna higher it may help, but it may need quite a bit of extra height to see much improvement. Antennas with more gain, and pre-amplifiers may help. But you may be disappointed in the end. UHF just isn't as good as old VHF.
 
Go to www.tvfool.com. Click on "signal locator" and put in your address. It will generate a signal map for you and tell what you can get and from what direction. For example, here is mine. I get the top eight. Top to bottom are strongest to weakest. Best channel is still called "channel 6" but is on actually on UHF channel 24. Next is UHF 45 that is really on channel 45. Next is VHF channel 11 and is still really on channel 11. Next is still called "channel 4" although it moved to UHF 35. Next is VHF 10 that is still on VHF 10. We also get a few analog channels - one from Michigan and one from Canada.
a149179.jpg
 
A digital or HD antenna is just a plain TV antenna with a different label on it.

No substitute for Height. If you can't, go to DIRECTV or Dish. You might not get sub channels, but you will get the big 5 (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and PBS).
 

For long range reception an antenna mounted amplifier is essential to compensate for signal loss down the coax. The amp has to be amplifing the desired TV signal and not amplifing noise.
FM broadcast radio wreaks havic with tv signals , particularly channels 2-6. The newer antenna are channels 7-51 for a reason, with the wide signal elements for 2-6 missing. This less FM broadcast signal entering the TV with signal overload, noise and intermode . No different than you can't hear the person beside you in a noisy room.
There is a FM broadcast transmitter approx 4 miles from my place . Receiving distant TV signals required adjusting the rotor to find a null point for thr FM yet hit a high gain reception lobe for the TV broadcast channel.
The antenna mounted amp also needs to have a FM and switched into the circuit .
The coax must be low loss RG-6 instead of the bargain coax at Walmart.
Somebody once upon a time here posted a link to a TV antenna test performed with several makes and models . Some were double stacked for extra gain.
My Daughter's house has a neat little Winegard antenna approx 12X14" square , with a built in amp. Mounted at the peak of the house . It will recieve only four of nine transmitter sites in Detroit 60 miles away and three Canadian broadcasters . 14 channels in total.
One of these days a tripod will go on the roof , 6ft of pipe and a super duper high gain channel 7-51 antenna, FM trap and amp.
Better than paying cable tv fees.
 
I think the first thing I would try is upgrade your 40 year old cable to some good quality quad shield RG-6. If you put up a new antenna you should put up new cable as well to take full advantage of your already weak received signals. Your amplifier needs to be as close to the antenna as possible so you amplify a strong signal not an already attenuated one at the end of a long cable run.

My parents live east of Fonddulac and get both Green bay stations and Milwaukee with the help of an antenna rotator.

The tvfool tool looks to be a very useful tool to help you aim your antenna in the right direction.
 
Thank all. Think I try raising my antique antenna first. Just having a hard time believing the, ray gun looking, $30 antenna sales hype I've been finding on the net. :)
 
Sorry you asked yet? A few comments on what Mr. Buick-Deere stated.

"FM broadcast radio wreaks havic with tv signals"

A preamp will have an FM trap and FM signals will not interfere with TV reception if used.


"newer antenna are channels 7-51 for a reason, with the wide signal elements for 2-6 missing."

Many new antennas do indeed still come with elements for 2-6 VHF. It would be silly not to since they are still active. VHF 6 is one our best channels here in Michigan an also was in central NY.

"The coax must be low loss RG-6 instead of the bargain coax at Walmart"

First of all - Walmart sells RG-6. Second - even cheap RG59 will work fine in short runs. Like most wiring jobs - it is about the length. I have a 400 foot run to my antenna so I use RG-11, not RG-6. If the distance is 50 feet from the TV to the antenna, here is the loss.

RG59 - 2.5 dB loss on VHF and 3.5 dB loss on UHF

RG6 - 1 dB loss on VHF and 1.4 dB loss on UHF

RG11 - .8 dB loss on VHF and 1.1 dB loss on UHF

Keep in mind that the 29 dB preamp on the antenna makes up for this loss.
 
When I shut down my dish network service, I ended up purchasing not one, but two antennas, and a pre-amp, and pointing each antenna toward most effective tower locations, and pull in stations which are nearly 100 miles away, and according to most of the antenna recommendation sites I should not get any reception in my location. I first tried using the Channel Master 777 pre-amp, and had issues, and I contacted Denny from Denny's Antenna Service (who I purchased one of the antennas from), and Denny indicated he has had a high failure rate, and had stopped selling until quality improves. I ended up purchasing the one in the link below and it has served me well so far. While using two antennas obviously would be more costly, it avoids the overhead and expense of using a rotor. I am currently using Denny's HD Stacker and one of the smaller RCA antennas commonly available from the big box stores.
RCA pre amp
 
I bought two CM7777 Titan preamps from Dennys this summer, along with his HD Stacker antenna. Never said a word to me about any Channel Master failures. Some problem more recent? I've got five of them in use and the oldest has been plugged in for 12 years. No problems yet.
 
I am in the country, surrounded by trees and lots of hills between me and broadcast towers. I can't get cable even if I wanted to, which I don't. Recently bought this antenna, $50 from walmart, cheaper if you buy online. Pulls in about fifty channels very clearly. Granted, I am only about 40 miles from nearest towers, but may be worth a try. If your house is tall with attic, I'd suggest mounting it up high and aiming it directly at closest stations. It's an indoor antenna.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-UltraPro-Optima-HD-Antenna/52170372
digital antenna
 

Channels 2-6 UHF low are down towards the 6meter ham band which is long wave , long distance and semi regularly skips . 2-6 travels longer distances with less loss than UHF 14-51. A 7-51 antenna while not tuned resonant for 2-6 is going to recieve the "stronger" 2-6 channels well enough unless in extreme fringe environments .
Your Walmart is better stocked than ours apparently .
Reducing the FM radio signals reduces front end over load and intermod which lowers the noise floor which improves the signal to noise ratio. signal to noise ratio is just as important as signal strength
 
I've got antennas set up in two different areas on the same property. One has a Winegard HD8200U that is a combo complete band-range VHF-UHF antenna. The
other spot has three separate antennas all joined with combiners A VHF 2-6 only antenna, a VHF 7-13 only antenna, and a UHF antenna. Both have 29 dB preamps.
None have skipped on the lower band elements. I installed the site with the three separate antennas just to see if the fringe lower band VHF came in any
better. It does not. The big combo HD8200U works just as well. Here is one setup with a low-band VHF, high-band VHF. and twin UHF antennas - all joined into
one coax with special combiners.
a149214.jpg
 
Could be the issue has been resolved. I purchased one, and it worked great, but was short lived. Odd, as it would start working again if I disconnected the coax to remove power then allowed some time and powered back again. I actually purchased the amp from Amazon, so I returned for full refund including shipping. This was about a year ago, and when Denny informed he had stopped carrying due to high failure rate, and returns. But I might have just gotten a fluke. I thought I would try the one in my link, and it actually seems to do better than the Channel Master I had, so I stuck with it. Very pleased with the HD Stacker antenna and service from Denny.
 
Here is setup. Larger antenna is one I purchased from Denny's. Very impressed with that antenna, but the smaller one helped a bunch, and run both through the powered pre amp. I get about 25 or so channels, which according to the antennaweb site I am not supposed to receive.
a149221.jpg
 
I installed Denny's HD Stacker where I had previously had the bigger Winegard HD8200U. Gets the exact same reception, but is more compact and looks like it will handle wind better then the Winegard did. Near killed myself putting that tower up in one piece.
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"Channels 2-6 .....". These are no more. This spectrum was auctioned off. The lowest VHF channel is 7.

You may think you still have channels 2-6 even now, but they are all 'virtual' channels with a RF assignment most likely in the UHF range.

We have a channel 7 that kept their VHF assignment here, but it seems to me that weather affects it a lot more than all the other channels here that are all UHF.
 
Most catv/tv/antenna amplifiers are junk, and introduce more noise into a weak signal. Use a professional catv grade amplifier for excellent results. electroline amps are OUTSTANDING and if mounted near the antenna, will ensure a clean and sharp signal to the tv. You can even add the one in/4 out ACTIVE splitters in the house for multiple tvs and still have a perfect and excellent picture even with long runs and lots of tv's. Run only double shielded rg6 that is the catv/satellite grade and do NOT run single shield rg6 or rg59 at all as they will be noisy and produce a bad picture. Run all high quality and only do it one time and it will last for more than 15 years with great results. Becareful to buy them with the needed power supplies that can be located remotely from the amplifiers, even provide power though the same coax,, as needed.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electroline-EDA-2100-1-port-RF-CATV-Signal-Amplifier-New-in-Box-/232202664017?hash=item36105b7851:g:QDMAAOSwSdZWb5DF
 
(quoted from post at 04:22:01 01/21/17) "Channels 2-6 .....". These are no more. This spectrum was auctioned off. The lowest VHF channel is 7.

You may think you still have channels 2-6 even now, but they are all 'virtual' channels with a RF assignment most likely in the UHF range.

If you're talking about inside the USA, you're incorrect. Although it's not utilized as much as it once was, Low band VHF is still humming with tv signals. Where the rumor that it went away got started, I don't know, but I'm getting tired of reading it presented as fact. (Real) Channels 52-69 were the most recent grouping chopped away from television. Channels 70-83 were removed in the early 80's. It is very unlikely any new applications will be approved for channel 51 under current rules. Channel 37 is not used for television at all in the US. Part or all of Channels 14-20 are off-limits to television in some areas. The FCC is currently working on incentive auctions and another repacking. 2-6 will still be used for tv once this is done, and the station population in VHF-Lo land will likely increase if the incentive auctions are successful.

According to http://rabbitears.info/statistics.php there are currently:
Six full power and forty low power digital stations licensed to real channel 2.
Six full power and thirty-seven low power digital stations licensed to real channel 3.
Three full power and sixty-nine low power digital stations licensed to real channel 4.
Sixteen full power and forty-seven low power digital stations licensed to real channel 5.
Eight full power and thirty-six low power digital stations licensed to real channel 6.

I'm pretty sure some "Franken-FM" channel 6 LP-analog stations are still operating. Their audio can be heard at the very bottom of the FM dial (87.75). There are probably a few other LP-analogs still operating on channels 2-6.

AG
 
This digital thing has been a real PITA. Just as he started his acceptance speech this morning, signal drops to nothing on both channels I had my DVR tuned to.

(Can't use the "T" word on this forum.)

Try up and down the channels and found a couple that still worked, so the cable and rest were still intact. Yesterday I had about 25 channels, now I have about 4. I was watching a station last night and it just went black and still can't get it.

The analog wasn't capable of HD, but it sure was more reliable.

Tomorrow up on the roof....
 
"Tramway Guy on January 20, 2017 at 19:22:01 from (166.137.252.80):
Channels 2-6 .....". These are no more. This spectrum was auctioned off. You may think you still have channels 2-6 even now, but they are all 'virtual' channels "

That is utter nonsense. I also know the difference between a virtual channel and a RF channel. The oldest and most powerful channel in central NY is WRGB, channel 6 which is on RF, # 6 VHF.

Here in Michigan - we have WGTV on VHF RF #5.
 
"posted by sotxbill on January 20, 2017 at 19:26:04 from (104.5.24.112):
Most catv/tv/antenna amplifiers are junk, and introduce more noise into a weak signal"

Nonsense. Maybe YOU got one on like that and if so, post make and model. Certainly does not apply to "most" as you claim. Channel Master CM7777 has a low
enough noise-to-gain ratio a consumer would not perceive a difference between that and a high-end amp that cost 5 times as much. I have tested every popular
preamp on the market in fringe reception areas and compared results with very expensive, super low-noises amps like the one from Research Communications in
England. Results? Nearly no difference in receiving weak TV signals in VHF or UHF. As far as consumer level amps - I tested only high gain, 25 dB and up
from Winegard, Antenna Craft, and Channel Master. Most of the cheaper ones have noise-level around 1 to 1.4 dB. The expensive high-end super low-noise amps
around .8 dB of noise. Observed difference on my weakest channels? NONE.
 

I just checked the wikipedia list of TV stations in Michigan. There is not enough channel 2-6 activity to warrant the use of a 2-51 antenna.
The extra wind loading, ice loading and FM broad cast radio signals due to those large, long, heavy channel 2-6 antenna elements are not worth the minor improvement in the 2-6 bands.
2-6 reception is entirely acceptable on a deep fringe 7-51 antenna.
 
" There is not enough channel 2-6 activity to warrant the use of a 2-51 antenna" ?????

Come on! If you live somewhere where only a few channels exist and some are on low-band VHF - of course a proper antenna is "warranted." My place in central NY
has its strongest TV station on WRBG VHF # 6. One of the oldest TV channels in the USA and the main one for that area.
 

Admittedly New York is a bit of a strange place.
I will bet a 24 of Canadian beer that your beloved channel 6 WRGB CBS and channel 5 WGVK PBS or 5 WBKP CW Calumet. That.......the difference between a channel 2-51 Winegard HD8200U vs a channel 7-51 Winegard HD7698P would be unnoticeable . In particular if there were FM broadcasters nearby.
The Channel Master channel 2-51 Advantage 100 vs Digital Advantage 100 will also have minimal differences in 2-6 reception. I would wager that the reduction of FM broadcast radio noise will make the Digital Advantage 100's reception superior on channels 2-6 if located too close to a FM broadcaster.
The Channel Blaster Masterpiece 100 channels 2-51 does provide superior mechanical gain in the VHF band. With 16db vs 10db VHF gain from the Advantage 100 2-51 and the Digital advantage 100 7-51. That said .......I would purchase the masterpiece 100 IF we were not located so close to a FM broadcasters for the superior VHF gain.
The last antenna here was a 2-69 . reception was improved after the 2-6 elements were cut shorter to match the channels 7-13 elements lengths. The FM signal here is so strong we could probably make a crystal radio by stacking drinking glasses together.
 
Steve@Advance "Here is a website that might help with a decision."

According to that site I don't have a problem. I get many more than I should. Still want more though.
 
Channel 6 was never "beloved" to me while living in central NY. Just happens to be the strongest signal and sometimes the only channel we could get.

Our place in the Michigan UP gets one of the best channels as analog on VHF 2 from Ontario, Canada. CHBX. I can only receive it almost snow-free with a good
low-band 2-6 antenna. My big Winegard 8200 does not pull it in clear enough to be worth watching. Neither does Denny's HD Stacker. And yes, low-band VHF
elements are big.
 

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